Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:21 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:It's also easier to game LSAT/GPA with fewer students.

Not when you have so few students because nobody wants to attend the school. If people are abandoning RU-C in droves then it's probably not the people with better prospects who are sticking around, you dig?

User avatar
20130312
Posts: 3842
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:53 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby 20130312 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:23 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:It's also easier to game LSAT/GPA with fewer students.

Not when you have so few students because nobody wants to attend the school. If people are abandoning RU-C in droves then it's probably not the people with better prospects who are sticking around, you dig?


Yeah, guess that makes sense.

User avatar
JCFindley
Posts: 1283
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby JCFindley » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:33 pm

So, maybe I should call them and see if they would pay me that amount in a stipend instead of a scholarship. Then I could use the GI Bill to pay for school and they would basically pay me for going. Yeah, that could be the ticket!

It would actually be tempting but think I will stick with Fordham. I do think Rutgers C will come out just fine in the long run though even without my special snowflakeness there.

User avatar
Blumpbeef
Posts: 3814
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:17 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby Blumpbeef » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:34 pm

KevinP wrote:I wonder how US news will rank the selectivity of a school whose number of offers exceeds its number of applicants.


I lol'd

User avatar
JDizzle2015
Posts: 638
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:16 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby JDizzle2015 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:42 pm

Blumpbeef wrote:
KevinP wrote:I wonder how US news will rank the selectivity of a school whose number of offers exceeds its number of applicants.


I lol'd

Considering the University of Michigan's undergrad has a 51% acceptance rate and is still deemed "most selective", maybe that would fall under "somewhat selective"? lol

User avatar
BVest
Posts: 5700
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:01 pm

JDizzle2015 wrote:
Blumpbeef wrote:
KevinP wrote:I wonder how US news will rank the selectivity of a school whose number of offers exceeds its number of applicants.


I lol'd

Considering the University of Michigan's undergrad has a 51% acceptance rate and is still deemed "most selective", maybe that would fall under "somewhat selective"? lol


They turn down 7000 a year. I guess that's the selective part.

BTW, they haven't made an offer yet. Their letter says "if you apply and are accepted" or similar. It leaves more wiggle room than Baylor's "We don't have space for you but if you apply for Spring start, your acceptance letter will be mailed immediately," but the implication is there.

Really it's just a giant fee waiver. They figure they're going to offer money to anyone over LSAT 16x so they offer money before the application. You apply and they get the LSATs they want. Plus the fact that they get to turn some folks down is just gravy.

User avatar
BVest
Posts: 5700
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:19 pm

thederangedwang wrote:any chance you could type a bit what the letter said? im struggling to see how the managed to explain that in the letter


Ask and you shall receive... after a long delay:


Rutgers-Camden wrote:June 20, 2012

Dear BVest:

You have been selected as an individual Rutgers School of Law-Camden would like to admit in the fall of 2012 as an Academic Promise Scholar. We are waiving both the application fee and the $300 deposit fee. Should you be accepted, you will be awarded an $18,000 Academic Promise Scholarship renewable at $18,000 if you are in the top forty percent of the class or partially renewable at $10,000 if you are not in the top forty percent but maintain a 3.0 GPA. This scholarship is not transferrable to any other school within the Rutgers system or outside of our Law School.

Rutgers University is the oldest and... [blah blah... we're great... blah blah]... employment statistics.

To apply online, go to http://www.camlaw.rutgers.edu and mark your application fee as "Waived-2012 Outreach." Please add our name to your law school list with LSAC.

Because Rutgers... [student loan/FAFSA]... We hope to see you in the fall.

Sincerely,
/s/
Camille S. Andrews
Associate Dean, School of Law-Camden

User avatar
BVest
Posts: 5700
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:44 pm

BTW, I'm a splitter too... did they only go after splitters thinking we were as desperate as they are, or are they just desperate for LSATs?

Also, am I supposed to add this to my LSN profile?

User avatar
Wily
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby Wily » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:49 pm

BVest wrote:BTW, I'm a splitter too... did they only go after splitters thinking we were as desperate as they are, or are they just desperate for LSATs?

Also, am I supposed to add this to my LSN profile?


I posted this on JDU. Someone came up with a theory that they're giving us splitters these stipulated awards because there's a greater chance that we'll lose them, because we're "bad at school." I think there's a chance this is true, plus the high LSATs are a draw.

BDawk20
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:38 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby BDawk20 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:52 pm

So it looks like everyone is up in arms about this place...thanks ATL. Let me explain Rutgers Camden to you briefly, and pain free.

In the interest of full disclosure I have gone to RC and feel like its gotten a bad name lately.

1) Neighborhood - Don't go anywhere your not supposed to. Camden is dangerous and trades places with any number of other cities for highest per capita murder rate (take that East St.Louis). Take the train and its a 3 minute ride to Philly. There is really no campus life to speak of, but campus itself is clean, and nice enough.

2)School - New building, across the street from the federal courthouse, its pretty.

3)Rankings - If you love to obsess with rankings (and who doesn't) then yes, RC has not had a great last 5 years. However there is a reason to be chipper. The small class size this year (mixed with the fact that RC didn't just admit everyone with subpar credentials) means that the ranking should go up. Student to faculty ratio will be better, as will as money spent per student. The school now also offers more scholarships from the sound of it. To those concerned about the rankings I'd offer this piece of advice - the school took a big hit this year, there was alot going on. Now the merger is settled. So beyond Rutgers simply returning to the status quo they now have a MUCH bigger bank account and the law school doesn't need to ship money back to New Brunswick. The end result will be more money for clinics, scholarships, profs, etc.

4)Profs - RC has a really good faculty - they are paid well and now that the merger talk is done have bigger bank accounts, all is well.

5)Other Concerns - Camden is wicked dangerous...did I mention that?; Also Pat Burrell will probably hit on you if your a girl at some point, when your in Philly it will happen.

My point is that instead of throwing away or talking down on a pretty good school, you probably should take that more seriously. In Philadelphia there are a number of law schools - and as Penn kids run for greener pastures in DC or NY, Rutgers students/alumn mainly compete with Temple. Which until a couple of years ago was an equal or less established school, things have changed but its still a battle Rutgers Students often win.
There are alot of spots in the city, and Rutgers Camden alumni rolls pretty deep. In state tuition/scholarship and access to big firms in the city with alumn.... You could do much worse.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:07 pm

BDawk20 wrote:So it looks like everyone is up in arms about this place...thanks ATL. Let me explain Rutgers Camden to you briefly, and pain free.

In the interest of full disclosure I have gone to RC and feel like its gotten a bad name lately.

1) Neighborhood - Don't go anywhere your not supposed to. Camden is dangerous and trades places with any number of other cities for highest per capita murder rate (take that East St.Louis). Take the train and its a 3 minute ride to Philly. There is really no campus life to speak of, but campus itself is clean, and nice enough.

2)School - New building, across the street from the federal courthouse, its pretty.

3)Rankings - If you love to obsess with rankings (and who doesn't) then yes, RC has not had a great last 5 years. However there is a reason to be chipper. The small class size this year (mixed with the fact that RC didn't just admit everyone with subpar credentials) means that the ranking should go up. Student to faculty ratio will be better, as will as money spent per student. The school now also offers more scholarships from the sound of it. To those concerned about the rankings I'd offer this piece of advice - the school took a big hit this year, there was alot going on. Now the merger is settled. So beyond Rutgers simply returning to the status quo they now have a MUCH bigger bank account and the law school doesn't need to ship money back to New Brunswick. The end result will be more money for clinics, scholarships, profs, etc.

4)Profs - RC has a really good faculty - they are paid well and now that the merger talk is done have bigger bank accounts, all is well.

5)Other Concerns - Camden is wicked dangerous...did I mention that?; Also Pat Burrell will probably hit on you if your a girl at some point, when your in Philly it will happen.

My point is that instead of throwing away or talking down on a pretty good school, you probably should take that more seriously. In Philadelphia there are a number of law schools - and as Penn kids run for greener pastures in DC or NY, Rutgers students/alumn mainly compete with Temple. Which until a couple of years ago was an equal or less established school, things have changed but its still a battle Rutgers Students often win.
There are alot of spots in the city, and Rutgers Camden alumni rolls pretty deep. In state tuition/scholarship and access to big firms in the city with alumn.... You could do much worse.

So it's dangerous, poorly ranked, has shit job stats (which you didn't mention and is by far the most important thing), and overpaid faculty.

You're a truly stellar salesman.

User avatar
sunynp
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby sunynp » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
BDawk20 wrote:So it looks like everyone is up in arms about this place...thanks ATL. Let me explain Rutgers Camden to you briefly, and pain free.

In the interest of full disclosure I have gone to RC and feel like its gotten a bad name lately.

1) Neighborhood - Don't go anywhere your not supposed to. Camden is dangerous and trades places with any number of other cities for highest per capita murder rate (take that East St.Louis). Take the train and its a 3 minute ride to Philly. There is really no campus life to speak of, but campus itself is clean, and nice enough.

2)School - New building, across the street from the federal courthouse, its pretty.

3)Rankings - If you love to obsess with rankings (and who doesn't) then yes, RC has not had a great last 5 years. However there is a reason to be chipper. The small class size this year (mixed with the fact that RC didn't just admit everyone with subpar credentials) means that the ranking should go up. Student to faculty ratio will be better, as will as money spent per student. The school now also offers more scholarships from the sound of it. To those concerned about the rankings I'd offer this piece of advice - the school took a big hit this year, there was alot going on. Now the merger is settled. So beyond Rutgers simply returning to the status quo they now have a MUCH bigger bank account and the law school doesn't need to ship money back to New Brunswick. The end result will be more money for clinics, scholarships, profs, etc.

4)Profs - RC has a really good faculty - they are paid well and now that the merger talk is done have bigger bank accounts, all is well.

5)Other Concerns - Camden is wicked dangerous...did I mention that?; Also Pat Burrell will probably hit on you if your a girl at some point, when your in Philly it will happen.

My point is that instead of throwing away or talking down on a pretty good school, you probably should take that more seriously. In Philadelphia there are a number of law schools - and as Penn kids run for greener pastures in DC or NY, Rutgers students/alumn mainly compete with Temple. Which until a couple of years ago was an equal or less established school, things have changed but its still a battle Rutgers Students often win.
There are alot of spots in the city, and Rutgers Camden alumni rolls pretty deep. In state tuition/scholarship and access to big firms in the city with alumn.... You could do much worse.

So it's dangerous, poorly ranked, has shit job stats (which you didn't mention and is by far the most important thing), and overpaid faculty.

You're a truly stellar salesman.


The school is offering scholarships to people who didn't apply and offering them with stipulations that make it likely the student will lose the scholarship.

Any credibility this school had (which wasn't much) and has lost is not just down to the merger. This desperate move of targeting people just to try to fill the class shows what a dishonest school it is.

Why are you shilling for this school? I don't think it is going to improve anytime soon.

Also, the tuition at this school is ridiculous for the poor employment outcomes.

I would be happy to see it close. It isn't needed.

User avatar
doppelganger
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:27 am

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby doppelganger » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:43 pm

I just got the full ride and am considering it. I already put a seat deposit down somewhere else, but money is a big issue for me. (I can't get gradplus because of a surgery I had to have.)

Where would be a semi-safe area to live nearby or on rail? Anybody know the area?

User avatar
doppelganger
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:27 am

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby doppelganger » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:46 pm

sunynp wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
BDawk20 wrote:So it looks like everyone is up in arms about this place...thanks ATL. Let me explain Rutgers Camden to you briefly, and pain free.

In the interest of full disclosure I have gone to RC and feel like its gotten a bad name lately.

1) Neighborhood - Don't go anywhere your not supposed to. Camden is dangerous and trades places with any number of other cities for highest per capita murder rate (take that East St.Louis). Take the train and its a 3 minute ride to Philly. There is really no campus life to speak of, but campus itself is clean, and nice enough.

2)School - New building, across the street from the federal courthouse, its pretty.

3)Rankings - If you love to obsess with rankings (and who doesn't) then yes, RC has not had a great last 5 years. However there is a reason to be chipper. The small class size this year (mixed with the fact that RC didn't just admit everyone with subpar credentials) means that the ranking should go up. Student to faculty ratio will be better, as will as money spent per student. The school now also offers more scholarships from the sound of it. To those concerned about the rankings I'd offer this piece of advice - the school took a big hit this year, there was alot going on. Now the merger is settled. So beyond Rutgers simply returning to the status quo they now have a MUCH bigger bank account and the law school doesn't need to ship money back to New Brunswick. The end result will be more money for clinics, scholarships, profs, etc.

4)Profs - RC has a really good faculty - they are paid well and now that the merger talk is done have bigger bank accounts, all is well.

5)Other Concerns - Camden is wicked dangerous...did I mention that?; Also Pat Burrell will probably hit on you if your a girl at some point, when your in Philly it will happen.

My point is that instead of throwing away or talking down on a pretty good school, you probably should take that more seriously. In Philadelphia there are a number of law schools - and as Penn kids run for greener pastures in DC or NY, Rutgers students/alumn mainly compete with Temple. Which until a couple of years ago was an equal or less established school, things have changed but its still a battle Rutgers Students often win.
There are alot of spots in the city, and Rutgers Camden alumni rolls pretty deep. In state tuition/scholarship and access to big firms in the city with alumn.... You could do much worse.

So it's dangerous, poorly ranked, has shit job stats (which you didn't mention and is by far the most important thing), and overpaid faculty.

You're a truly stellar salesman.


The school is offering scholarships to people who didn't apply and offering them with stipulations that make it likely the student will lose the scholarship.

Any credibility this school had (which wasn't much) and has lost is not just down to the merger. This desperate move of targeting people just to try to fill the class shows what a dishonest school it is.

Why are you shilling for this school? I don't think it is going to improve anytime soon.

Also, the tuition at this school is ridiculous for the poor employment outcomes.

I would be happy to see it close. It isn't needed.


Unless I'm missing something, staying in the top 40% and maintaining 3.0< doesn't seem like an impossible standard to adhere to.

User avatar
JCFindley
Posts: 1283
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby JCFindley » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:00 pm

doppelganger wrote:
sunynp wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
BDawk20 wrote:So it looks like everyone is up in arms about this place...thanks ATL. Let me explain Rutgers Camden to you briefly, and pain free.

In the interest of full disclosure I have gone to RC and feel like its gotten a bad name lately.

1) Neighborhood - Don't go anywhere your not supposed to. Camden is dangerous and trades places with any number of other cities for highest per capita murder rate (take that East St.Louis). Take the train and its a 3 minute ride to Philly. There is really no campus life to speak of, but campus itself is clean, and nice enough.

2)School - New building, across the street from the federal courthouse, its pretty.

3)Rankings - If you love to obsess with rankings (and who doesn't) then yes, RC has not had a great last 5 years. However there is a reason to be chipper. The small class size this year (mixed with the fact that RC didn't just admit everyone with subpar credentials) means that the ranking should go up. Student to faculty ratio will be better, as will as money spent per student. The school now also offers more scholarships from the sound of it. To those concerned about the rankings I'd offer this piece of advice - the school took a big hit this year, there was alot going on. Now the merger is settled. So beyond Rutgers simply returning to the status quo they now have a MUCH bigger bank account and the law school doesn't need to ship money back to New Brunswick. The end result will be more money for clinics, scholarships, profs, etc.

4)Profs - RC has a really good faculty - they are paid well and now that the merger talk is done have bigger bank accounts, all is well.

5)Other Concerns - Camden is wicked dangerous...did I mention that?; Also Pat Burrell will probably hit on you if your a girl at some point, when your in Philly it will happen.

My point is that instead of throwing away or talking down on a pretty good school, you probably should take that more seriously. In Philadelphia there are a number of law schools - and as Penn kids run for greener pastures in DC or NY, Rutgers students/alumn mainly compete with Temple. Which until a couple of years ago was an equal or less established school, things have changed but its still a battle Rutgers Students often win.
There are alot of spots in the city, and Rutgers Camden alumni rolls pretty deep. In state tuition/scholarship and access to big firms in the city with alumn.... You could do much worse.

So it's dangerous, poorly ranked, has shit job stats (which you didn't mention and is by far the most important thing), and overpaid faculty.

You're a truly stellar salesman.


The school is offering scholarships to people who didn't apply and offering them with stipulations that make it likely the student will lose the scholarship.

Any credibility this school had (which wasn't much) and has lost is not just down to the merger. This desperate move of targeting people just to try to fill the class shows what a dishonest school it is.

Why are you shilling for this school? I don't think it is going to improve anytime soon.

Also, the tuition at this school is ridiculous for the poor employment outcomes.

I would be happy to see it close. It isn't needed.


Unless I'm missing something, staying in the top 40% and maintaining 3.0< doesn't seem like an impossible standard to adhere to.


IF they section stack then more than 60% of people could lose their $$$. (I am not saying they do but it is possible.)

On a full ride I think it could be a good deal myself. Especially if you can't get the grad plus loans.

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby Nova » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:01 pm

doppelganger wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, staying in the top 40% and maintaining 3.0< doesn't seem like an impossible standard to adhere to.


Its still more likely you lose it. Most credible schools dont have stttips like that.

User avatar
sunynp
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby sunynp » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:25 pm

Nova wrote:
doppelganger wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, staying in the top 40% and maintaining 3.0< doesn't seem like an impossible standard to adhere to.


Its still more likely you lose it. Most credible schools dont have stttips like that.

Schools that have stips on scholarships give them to more people than can keep them. They deliberately give scholarships knowing that some number of students will lose them. They know that most people will continue on after they have lost the scholarship.

If they intend for you to have the scholarship all three years, get them to drop the stipulation.

BreezyWheeze
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:01 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby BreezyWheeze » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:24 pm

BDawk20 wrote:So it looks like everyone is up in arms about this place...thanks ATL. Let me explain Rutgers Camden to you briefly, and pain free. at some length, and poorly.

In the interest of full disclosure I have gone to RC and feel like its gotten a bad name lately. I demonstrate the level of acumen at advocacy writing you would expect from a Rutgers-Camden grad.

1) Neighborhood - Don't go anywhere your you're not supposed to go. Camden is dangerous! and It trades places with any number of other cities for highest per capita murder rate each year (take that East St.Louis). There's no campus life to speak of, but fortunately you can Ttake the train and its a 3 minute ride to Philly and be somewhere worth being in under three minutes. There is really no campus life to speak of, but The campus itself is clean, and nice enough.

2)School - The Nnew building, across the street from the federal courthouse, its pretty. Having said that, the expense of big, uselessly "pretty" new buildings is part of the fundamental problem of spiralling costs at law schools.

3)Rankings - If you love to obsess with rankings (and who doesn't) then yes, RC has not had a great last 5 years. However there is a reason to be chipper. The small class size this year (mixed with the fact that RC didn't just admit everyone with subpar credentials) means that the ranking should go up. Student to faculty ratio will be better, as will as money spent per student The school now also offers more scholarships from the sound of it. To those concerned about the rankings I'd offer this piece of advice - the school took a big hit this year, there was alot going on. Now the merger is settled. So beyond Rutgers simply returning to the status quo they now have a MUCH bigger bank account and the law school doesn't need to ship money back to New Brunswick. The end result will be more money for clinics, scholarships, profs, etc. worried. While, on the one hand, a smaller class size means a better $/student ratio, the precipitous drop in enrollment could hurt their LSAT/GPA numbers a bit, and more importantly could hurt their "peer" rankings quite a lot. We don't know what the exact effect on RU-C's ranking will be, but it's not likely to be good.

4)Profs - RC has an unremarkable and fundamentally competent, if not stellar really good faculty - they are overpaid well and now that the merger talk is done have bigger bank accounts, all is well not as catastrophically bad as it could have been.

5)Other Concerns - Camden is wicked dangerous...did I mention that?; Also, at some point, Pat Burrell will probably hit on you if your you're a girl at some point, when (most likely when you're your in Philly) it will happen.

My point is that instead of throwing away or talking down on a pretty good school, you probably should take that more seriously. In Philadelphia there are a number of law schools - and as Penn kids run for greener pastures in DC or NY, Rutgers students/alumn mainly compete with Temple. Which until a couple of years ago was an equal or less established school, things have changed but its still a battle Rutgers Students often win.
There are alot of spots in the city, and Rutgers Camden alumni rolls pretty deep. In state tuition/scholarship and access to big firms in the city with alumn.... You could do much worse by going to some unranked shitpile like Cooley.


FTFY

User avatar
20130312
Posts: 3842
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:53 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby 20130312 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:00 pm

You created an account just to say that? Badass, bro.

User avatar
sunynp
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby sunynp » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:06 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:You created an account just to say that? Badass, bro.


You have to respect this:

2)School - The Nnew building, across the street from the federal courthouse, its pretty. Having said that, the expense of big, uselessly "pretty" new buildings is part of the fundamental problem of spiralling costs at law schools.

User avatar
doppelganger
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:27 am

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby doppelganger » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:28 pm

sunynp wrote:
Nova wrote:
doppelganger wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, staying in the top 40% and maintaining 3.0< doesn't seem like an impossible standard to adhere to.


Its still more likely you lose it. Most credible schools dont have stttips like that.

Schools that have stips on scholarships give them to more people than can keep them. They deliberately give scholarships knowing that some number of students will lose them. They know that most people will continue on after they have lost the scholarship.

If they intend for you to have the scholarship all three years, get them to drop the stipulation.


Yes, I understand that not everyone will be able to maintain those stips, but they are still a lot less rigid than others I've seen. That being said, does anyone know how tight their curve is or where I could get this information? Also, any tips on negotiating to getting the stips removed? I tried this before with a different school and was unsuccessful.

User avatar
observationalist
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:55 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby observationalist » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:20 am

doppelganger wrote:
sunynp wrote:
Nova wrote:
doppelganger wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, staying in the top 40% and maintaining 3.0< doesn't seem like an impossible standard to adhere to.


Its still more likely you lose it. Most credible schools dont have stttips like that.

Schools that have stips on scholarships give them to more people than can keep them. They deliberately give scholarships knowing that some number of students will lose them. They know that most people will continue on after they have lost the scholarship.

If they intend for you to have the scholarship all three years, get them to drop the stipulation.


Yes, I understand that not everyone will be able to maintain those stips, but they are still a lot less rigid than others I've seen. That being said, does anyone know how tight their curve is or where I could get this information? Also, any tips on negotiating to getting the stips removed? I tried this before with a different school and was unsuccessful.


Anyone willing to share what these unsolicited offers from Camden are saying by way of employment outcomes for graduates? Particularly interested in knowing what they now say about starting salaries for private sector grads. Feel free to PM me as well... thanks.

User avatar
Wily
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby Wily » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:52 am

observationalist wrote:Anyone willing to share what these unsolicited offers from Camden are saying by way of employment outcomes for graduates? Particularly interested in knowing what they now say about starting salaries for private sector grads. Feel free to PM me as well... thanks.


Mine didn't say anything about employment outcomes. Probably to reduce liability. It just talked about how good the faculty were.

User avatar
HarlandBassett
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:50 pm

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby HarlandBassett » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:12 pm

More than a week ago ITLSS pointed out that the reported debt numbers for Rutgers-Camden law graduates didn't appear to make any sense. Within a few hours, with the help of internet crowd-sourcing, it became clear what had happened: Rutgers-Camden was reporting only the law school debt incurred by its graduating class in the class's third year, rather than, as it was required to by the ABA, over the course of attending the school. (It also became evident that Georgia State and Barry -- at least -- were making the same "mistake." The numbers for Southern and Texas Southern are probably wrong in the same way).

On Monday, Rutgers' Dean Rayman Solomon sent an email to the school's students, purporting to explain what had happened. Here is the relevant portion:

The third post occurred [this is a reference to the first ITLSS post linked above] on July 18th and questioned our reported number for average indebtedness at graduation. The reported number was incorrect. Here is the sequence of events: each year the ABA asks for information about student indebtedness. The number for average indebtedness was one that until this year had not been publicly reported - it was reported to the ABA and they did not reprint it or disclose it. Our process for determining that number is that one of our administrative staff members gets the data from the University's financial aid office and fills out the answer to the question. The staff person interpreted the question as asking what the average debt was for a graduating 3L for the third year --- not the total three-year indebtedness. This year US News asked for the data and we gave them what we had given the ABA. US News then did a ranking on least and most expensive schools. On the day the ranking came out I was informed by a fellow dean that we, along with a number of schools, had incorrectly interpreted the question. I immediately informed the ABA of our mistake. The ABA sent out an email to all schools and asked each to verify this number as there were enough schools that had the same problem to require everyone to recheck the information. We worked with financial aid to generate the accurate number, which was more difficult than one might imagine, as it required tracing students who had started in different years and taking out the undergraduate debt of Rutgers graduates. As soon as we could complete the process we reported to the ABA our accurate number. When US News requested the corrected number I supplied it to them. The ABA was completely satisfied that there was no intentional misconduct on our part. However, I sign the ABA questionnaire certification, and I take full responsibility for this mistake.

Dean Solomon is claiming that he knew nothing about this "mistake" (which the law school he's been running since 1998 has committed every year since at least 2008 ) until March, 2012, when a helpful fellow dean informed him of it. Prior to this year, according to Dean Solomon, only the ABA had this information "and they did not reprint it or disclose it." So Rutgers-Camden did not benefit from the misreported information, and indeed remained unaware of the mistake until this March.

I will assume that Dean Solomon's statement that another dean contacted him is true. Every other assertion in the previous paragraph is provably false. The facts are these:

(1) US News has been asking law schools for graduating class debt data since at least the graduating class of 2008. It has been publishing this data on the internet, where any interested party has been able to examine it. (Note that US News gets this data directly from law schools themselves, not from the ABA).

(2) In March of 2011 US News ran a story entitled "Ten Law Degrees With Most Financial Value at Graduation." This story ranked Rutgers-Camden as providing its graduates with the third-most valuable law degree in the country, measured in terms of the ratio between the purported average law school debt of its graduates and their purported median private sector starting salary.

(3) In November of 2011, the National Jurist ran a story on "Best Value Law Schools," giving Rutgers-Camden a grade of A- for offering "an affordable education with great job prospects." Like the March 2011 US News story, this story cited the school's remarkably low graduate debt totals.

(4) On November 15, 2011, Rutgers' Media Relations Office distributed a press release to the local and national media, quoting from and linking to both the US News and National Jurist stories ranking Rutgers-Camden as one of the most affordable and best value law schools in the nation. This press release quotes Dean Solomon regarding the US News and National Jurist affordability/best-value rankings:

“These rankings, while gratifying, represent just a glimpse into the Rutgers–Camden law school experience,” says Rayman Solomon, dean of the Rutgers School of Law–Camden. “Our curriculum and faculty prepare our students for success at every level of the profession. In addition to the success of our graduates in the private sector, the Rutgers–Camden law school also prepares them for success in the judiciary and in the public interest sector.
So, in direct contradiction to what he asserted in Monday's e-mail to his students, Dean Solomon is on record as having known since at least November of last year that US News publishes law graduate debt rankings, and that his school does extraordinarily well in those rankings.

Of course it is utterly fantastic to imagine that Dean Solomon hasn't been perfectly well aware for several years that Rutgers-Camden has been reporting phony debt numbers to both the ABA and US News since at least 2008. He has been the dean of the school for 14 years; it's beyond incredible to think he's been under the impression that Rutgers-Camden graduates actually graduate with debt loads one third as large as those carried by graduates of his school's most direct competitors for potential students, i.e., Rutgers-Newark and Temple.

What is also beyond incredible is that Dean Solomon thinks it's a good idea to continue to lie so shamelessly. I am sincerely curious if the ABA is going to do anything about the fact that Dean Solomon is lying to it about when he discovered this mistake.

I'm also curious regarding whether Bob Morse is going to do anything about the fact that as of last Friday Dean Solomon had done nothing to inform US News regarding the radically incorrect numbers US News has been publishing regarding Rutgers since at least 2008 -- numbers which by his own admission he has known for at least four months were completely wrong, although I'm fairly confident the internal communications of Rutgers University document that he has known this for much longer (perhaps some enterprising lawyer will try to find out exactly how long).

Also, it would be nice to know when US News is going to bestir itself to correct its webpage reporting average graduate debt, since it now apparently has the correct figure for 2011 from Rutgers (a figure which Dean Solomon omits to mention in his phony mea culpa to his students). In addition, inquiring minds would like to know if US News has bothered to contact Georgia State and Barry, if those schools haven't sent corrections to the publication themselves. (Needless to say the ABA ought to be looking into these "mistakes" as well).

A final note of incredulity: I'm well aware a lot of people will still somehow find a way to characterize all this as no big deal. The fact that a law school dean has been lying to the ABA for years about a number his school is required to report to the school's accrediting organization will be treated as somehow not important. The fact that a law school dean has provably known since last year that national publications were running stories publicizing his school on the basis of phony numbers the school has transmitted to the ABA, and he did nothing to correct the public record, will be rationalized away as insignificant ("Anybody who is naive enough to believe those kinds of stories deserves what they get"). The fact that this dean continues even now to repeat these lies to his own students is of no consequence. By now these "kids" should know they're pretty much screwed, so what's one more lie on top of all the others?

Destroying the capacity for outrage is in some ways the worst crime these institutions commit.

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... lomon.html

User avatar
drmguy
Posts: 1016
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:43 am

Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby drmguy » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:26 pm

Yowza

Edit: I'm not going to lie. As a RU-C student, I was utterly confused when I saw those debt numbers. I thought I was doing something terribly wrong when the average entire debt was pretty much what I took out in 1 year.
Last edited by drmguy on Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests