Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

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Wily
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby Wily » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:30 am

DerekTokaz wrote:
Top candidates with LSAT scores of 162 or higher and high academic credential of 3.50 and higher can compete for the Justicia Reperio Justicia (Justice finds Justice) Scholarship Awards. Selected recipients receive $12,000 per year.

http://camlaw.rutgers.edu/webapps/admis ... opup2.html

From your comments on JDU, you fell well below their minimum GPA, but yet they're offering you a scholarship 50% larger than what they say is their top award. The site must be outdated, surely they offer some people a full ride, right?


Yep, I had a 2.7/168, much below their minimum for this award. The one they gave me was a "Academic Promise Scholarship," not sure what that means, other than they're desperate for butts to fill seats.

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drmguy
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby drmguy » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:39 am

flem wrote:
drmguy wrote:I have no doubts that the clerkship figure is accurate.

All New Jeresey schools are big on clerkships.


I hope everyone has a real passion and zeal for traffic court.

TBF, I got this same letter Wily is talking about last year. It's the same kind of solicitation TTTT schools send out regularly. "Should you be admitted you're eligible for X as long as you remain in the X% of your class"

This is why schools should have to report stats for 2 years out.

Paul Campos
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby Paul Campos » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:59 am

I hope anybody who is deposited at this school and is reading this realizes there's a real chance this law school won't be around in a year or two. If they have an entering class of 90 it's going to cost the central university millions of dollars just to keep it open this year. Central universities generally don't like law schools that don't make money, let alone lose large amounts.

abc12345675
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby abc12345675 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:02 am

Paul Campos wrote:I hope anybody who is deposited at this school and is reading this realizes there's a real chance this law school won't be around in a year or two. If they have an entering class of 90 it's going to cost the central university millions of dollars just to keep it open this year. Central universities generally don't like law schools that don't make money, let alone lose large amounts.


Nonsense. This is the type of fear that is hurting the school already. It will be around no question

CanadianWolf
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:03 am

Isn't also possible that after the current publicity circulates that next year's applications rise significantly ? Rutgers-Camden is a public law school with reasonable in-state tuition rates for residents. Doesn't Rutgers-Camden place well in state government jobs ?

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manofjustice
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby manofjustice » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:05 am

Oh, man, go. Less than fully scholly with high stips? It's a no-brainer!

abc12345675
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby abc12345675 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:07 am

flem wrote:Dude just combine the Rutgers campuses. NJ doesn't need two of them plus Seton Hall.


They funnel different markets though, right? N Jersey vs S Jersey? The state isn't going to fail to supply education to one half of the state because of a private institution.

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briviere
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby briviere » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:18 am

abc12345675 wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:I hope anybody who is deposited at this school and is reading this realizes there's a real chance this law school won't be around in a year or two. If they have an entering class of 90 it's going to cost the central university millions of dollars just to keep it open this year. Central universities generally don't like law schools that don't make money, let alone lose large amounts.


Nonsense. This is the type of fear that is hurting the school already. It will be around no question


Upon what facts do you base this claim?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:23 am

A proposed, but failed, merger attempt is unlikely to close down Rutgers-Camden law school. Clearly, it has affected one admissions cycle & may adversely affect admissions standards next cycle. Almost all law schools are going to experience a further decrease in apps next cycle--just as they did this cycle. Rutgers-Camden was hit unusually hard because of uncertainty about its future name. The primary issue was not whether or not this law school would continue to exist, but rather under which name---Rowan or Rutgers.
GWU & Minnesota had bad admissions committment results this cycle. One, or maybe both, responded by offering half scholarships to waitlist admittees. Rutgers-Camden had no difficulty--at least from what I have read--filling its class until the proposed merger news was made public.
If the merger proposal is off the table & public assurances are given by Gov. Christie that the law school will continue as Rutgers-Camden, then the situation should improve rapidly, in my opinion.

P.S. It would have been more interesting if the proposed merger was with private Princeton University.

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albusdumbledore
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby albusdumbledore » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:30 am

briviere wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:I hope anybody who is deposited at this school and is reading this realizes there's a real chance this law school won't be around in a year or two. If they have an entering class of 90 it's going to cost the central university millions of dollars just to keep it open this year. Central universities generally don't like law schools that don't make money, let alone lose large amounts.


Nonsense. This is the type of fear that is hurting the school already. It will be around no question


Upon what facts do you base this claim?

I mean I'm all for shaming terrible law schools, but I think the burden of proof here is on Campos to show that it won't be around. Although, he did say "real chance". Hell, it's 2012. There's a real chance the world won't be around in a year or two right?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:36 am

Thanks for stating the obvious. :D That was my point.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:38 am

The real burden is on Gov. Christie to give assurance that the proposed merger is off the table & that Rutgers-Camden Law School will continue as a part of Rutgers-Camden. If no such assurances are given, then inaction could cause further harm to R-C law school.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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20130312
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby 20130312 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:40 am

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Last edited by 20130312 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DerekTokaz
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby DerekTokaz » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:40 am

What we're looking at is akin to a run on a bank. As more people flee, fearing that their deposits are at risk, the risk for remaining deposits increases, thus giving others who weren't concerned before a reason to be concerned now and pull their money out as well, and before you know it the bank is a huge risk, everyone wants their money out, and the bank collapses.

Same deal with Camden. As people flee, the school loses revenue and is more likely to either (1) close, or (2) have other substantial problems due to the lack of funds (professors fleeing for more stable schools). And, as more people flee the more reason remaining students have to flee.

Even if the merger were taken off the table completely and NJ passed a law banning the merger from ever happening, it could be too late. Fewer students will enroll this year, and Camden is giving them generous scholarships to get them in. So, it's going to have budget problems. Next year's applicants, not fearing a merger, would still have reason to be concerned about the shaky financial position of the school.

If you've been accepted to a school that is equivalent in job opportunities and costs, but isn't in this precarious position, I don't see why you would go to Camden.

Paul Campos
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby Paul Campos » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:53 am

DerekTokaz wrote:What we're looking at is akin to a run on a bank. As more people flee, fearing that their deposits are at risk, the risk for remaining deposits increases, thus giving others who weren't concerned before a reason to be concerned now and pull their money out as well, and before you know it the bank is a huge risk, everyone wants their money out, and the bank collapses.

Same deal with Camden. As people flee, the school loses revenue and is more likely to either (1) close, or (2) have other substantial problems due to the lack of funds (professors fleeing for more stable schools). And, as more people flee the more reason remaining students have to flee.

Even if the merger were taken off the table completely and NJ passed a law banning the merger from ever happening, it could be too late. Fewer students will enroll this year, and Camden is giving them generous scholarships to get them in. So, it's going to have budget problems. Next year's applicants, not fearing a merger, would still have reason to be concerned about the shaky financial position of the school.

If you've been accepted to a school that is equivalent in job opportunities and costs, but isn't in this precarious position, I don't see why you would go to Camden.


Right. Plus an additional factor is that once some university pulls the plug on its law school a bunch of others will find it much easier to follow suit.

I wouldn't venture a guess on what the odds are that Rutgers-Camden will be the first to go but I would say they're definitely non-trivial.

Imagine how absurd it would have sounded in early 2007 to predict that a couple of nation's oldest and most prestigious investment banks simply wouldn't exist a year later.

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20130312
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby 20130312 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:02 pm

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Last edited by 20130312 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DerekTokaz
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby DerekTokaz » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:05 pm

Paul Campos wrote:Plus an additional factor is that once some university pulls the plug on its law school a bunch of others will find it much easier to follow suit.

I don't see why this follows. Once one school closes, many of the students it would have enrolled will end up elsewhere. Demand at other schools will go up.
Imagine how absurd it would have sounded in early 2007 to predict that a couple of nation's oldest and most prestigious investment banks simply wouldn't exist a year later.

The banks were connected in two ways though. They were exposed to the same underlying risk, and they were directly exposed to each other. I don't see the latter applying to law schools. Camden doesn't owe Seton Hall $50,000,000.

As for the underlying risk, that's a bit iffy. Schools do share a common cause for decreased enrollment (high prices, mediocre outcomes), but what it would take to close a school would be largely school-specific (the merger fiasco, losing accreditation due to low bar passage, etc). Should a school close, its competitors will do better, not worse. While a bank closing exacerbates the problems at other banks, a law school closing mitigates the problems at other schools.

The only way I could see there being a domino effect is if a school closing creates a large amount of negative press about law school generally, further pushing down enrollment, and that lower enrollment making some students question the stability of evey mid or low ranked school, creating an industry-wide run.

[Edit: I think maybe you weren't saying a law school closing is like a bank closing in structure, but just that black swan events happen.]

timbs4339
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:33 pm

It's unlikely RU-C will close in the next few years, even if it posts an operating loss which is looking more and more likely at this point, because to do so would severely hurt RU-C's standing as an independent university branch of the Rutgers system. Having just escaped threat of a merger, it would be unwise for them to start reducing programs now. They are going to try and ride this one out.

DerekTokaz
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby DerekTokaz » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:00 pm

I could see the whole debacle severely hurting Camden's USN ranking.

25% of the rank is based on the opinions of other professors. Any sort of instability or negative press is going to make them take a hit here, even if it's completely unrelated to an actual drop in quality. On top of that, there could be an actual drop in quality. Professors might leave for a more secure school, and they'll have a tough time recruiting new professors. That would also hurt its reputation among other professors.

22.5% of the rank is based on LSAT and GPA. Obviously, having a tough time filling seats will cause the school to drop a bit here.

Another 11.25% comes from expenditures per student. If on average students are paying less tuition, they school has fewer dollars per student to spend.

A significant rankings drop could push Camden towards the brink of closing. I still think it's unlikely, but it's not hard to imagine how it could happen.

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20130312
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby 20130312 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:05 pm

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Last edited by 20130312 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:17 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:You realize that by having fewer students, Rutgers could make their expenditures per student shoot through the roof, right? It's also easier to game LSAT/GPA with fewer students.


That might be offset from any drop in peer ranking if Rutgers is forced to fire tenure track professors or reduce salaries/perks.

DerekTokaz
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby DerekTokaz » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:20 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:You realize that by having fewer students, Rutgers could make their expenditures per student shoot through the roof, right? It's also easier to game LSAT/GPA with fewer students.

Depends on what their non-tuition revenue looks like.

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20130312
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby 20130312 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:20 pm

ITT: Speculation runs rampant.

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BentleyLittle
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby BentleyLittle » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:55 pm

Bump. Just got the same solicitation in the mail but with a full-ride, Top 40% stip. Waived the application fee and seat deposit.

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cynthia rose
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Re: Rutgers just admitted me without my applying

Postby cynthia rose » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:15 pm

I just received this letter today too. I got the Academic Promise Scholar (18k renewable with top 40%/10k renewable with 3.0) offer. And I am from Alabama. Other than a best friend who stays about 40 minutes away from Camden, I have no ties there whatsoever. I would look silly going there when there are five schools here that I could have applied to.

My numbers are 2.4/167, just a tad lower than OP's I think. I'm pretty sure we would have gotten in if we had applied normally so I don't think RC is dipping below their normal level of acceptances; they're probably just targeting mid to high-160 splitters in the hope that enough of us had a really bad cycle and are desperate to attend somewhere. I did have a bad cycle, but not bad enough to be stupid when I can just retake and reapply next year.




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