Um, which part? Listen, I totally feel for the people just starting out in this profession--I'm only thankful I didn't have to deal with the job market you guys have. I still think I have a reasonably good sense of the prospects for recent grads from that school, if only because I've worked with people who graduated in the past 2-3 years. I don't think students at Rutgers-Camden are significantly worse off than anyone else in this market.

all of your endorsements have a "it could be worse" tone. I think ultimately people are in agreement with you. It could definitely be worse, at about 100 or more other schools. But that is no reason to attend. These new developments at Rutgers, even if they are self-fulfilling prophesies, are reason to stay away. If they cannot fill their class with the type of students they usually have, and they are forced to drop their standards substantially, then this is seriously worrisome for the value of the degree.

They aren't exactly going after the bottom rung of applicants though as Wily is going to GW and was accepted at Fordham. They are not targeting people that have deposited at Cooly.

Still, admitting someone that didn't even apply is worrisome.

Um, which part? Listen, I totally feel for the people just starting out in this profession--I'm only thankful I didn't have to deal with the job market you guys have. I still think I have a reasonably good sense of the prospects for recent grads from that school, if only because I've worked with people who graduated in the past 2-3 years. I don't think students at Rutgers-Camden are significantly worse off than anyone else in this market.

And as far as what the tuition was when I attended, I don't remember the amount (insert another age joke here), but my first job paid $30k, and it took me over a decade to reach $60k. Things were cheaper then, but salaries way lower.

So I'm not painting a rosy picture, but you guys are applying to these schools regardless, aren't you? All I'm saying is that Rutgers is still a relative bargain for the quality of the education.

Appendix A
Public Law School Resident Tuition and Fees
(1983-84 tuition figures have an asterisk)
SCHOOL 1983/1984 1999-2000 2004-2005 20 Yr. % Increase 5 Yr. % Increase
Rutgers State University - Camden $2,368* $11,302 $16,724 606.30% 47.97%

Rutgers State University - Newark $2,368* $11,226 $16,525 597.80% 47.20%
Appendix B
Non-resident tuition

Rutgers State University - Camden $3,348* $16,024 $23,755 609.50% 48.25%
Rutgers State University - Newark $3,348* $15,948 $23,556 603.60% 47.71%

Tuition for the academic year 2011-12 is $22,746 for in-state tuition and $34,010 for out-of-state (non-New Jersey) residents.

Part-time New Jersey resident tuition is $948 per credit; non-resident tuition is $1,417 per credit.

During 2011-12, student fees per semester are $1,348.25 for full-time students and $735.25 for part-time students.

Tuition and Student Fees for 2011-2012

Full-Time Students Part-Time Students
Tuition $22,746/NJ Resident

$34,010/non-resident $948/credit (8 credits Fall/8 credits Spring = $15,168 NJ resident)

$1,437/credit (8 credits Fall/8 credits Spring = $22,992 non-resident)
Fees $2,661 $1,400
Books $1,150 $775
Health Insurance $750


Cost of Attendance for 2011-2012

Cost of Attendance (student budget) includes the projected amount of funding you’ll need to cover tuition, student fee and book expenses, as well as funds for housing, food, travel, and other miscellaneous items. Cost of Attendance is established by the university each academic year; it is based on typical expenses for this geographic region and is intended to cover expenses for the nine-month academic year (August – May). Students will be able to apply for funding up to this budgeted amount. The 2011-2012 law school budgets are listed below:

Full-Time Students Part-Time Students
NJ Residents $34,290 - Living with parents

$42,060 - On Campus

$47,570 - Off Campus $22,554 - Living with parents

$30,894 - On Campus

$35,824 - Off Campus
Non-Residents $44,190 - Living with parents

$52,220 - On Campus

$56,960 - Off Campus $29,811 - Living with parents

$38,151 - On Campus

$43,081 - Off Campus

Pretty funny when you consider all the kids desperate to be admitted to such a school.

Well, it certainly seriously sucks that the merger talk even was thrown out on the table. It was a bunch of politicians playing craps with people's futures (faculty included), if you ask me. I spent a couple of days doing nothing but writing letters to legislators, the Board of Governors, the Trustees, etc., and the students, faculty and alumni did a great job of finally killing it. It's hard to blame people for being leery when all that was going on, but what is the school supposed to do at this point? Leave half the seats in the class empty? Or maybe try to attract some students who hadn't considered it before?

My gut feeling is that the "hit" taken by the school will subside in another year or so. And hopefully the job market will improve, but that's speculation as well.

It's just a shame--it was all so unnecessary.

From the looks of the appendix cited, the tuition at most law schools has gone up a comparable percentage.

I agree that the cost of tuition is ridiculous, but that can pretty much be said for all of them.

Yet people are still fighting to get into the law schools. I'm not passing judgment on that fact, my point really was only that accepting an unsolicited invitation from Rutgers for the purpose of filling its class isn't a ridiculous notion--especially if it is accompanied by financial aid. My opinion, that's all.

The aging, demented boomer will gracefully bow out of the thread. Good luck to you all, seriously.

(Incidentally, the "um" wasn't intended to be rude--I honestly did not know why my opinion would be considered "boomer babble", which actually DOES sound rude, and rather dismissive. Your points are made, and you guys definitely have it tougher in the employment prospects department than my classmates and I did.)

Agreed. My only worry is that the press about law school being a buyer's market might cause the declining trend to reverse.

*eagerly awaits the data on june's number of LSAT test takers*



Lol. I wonder how US news will rank the selectivity of a school whose number of offers exceeds its number of applicants.

On Friday, we reported on an aggressive and arguably misleading sales pitch from the people at Rutgers Law – Camden. The pitch, aimed towards students who had taken the GMAT, made this claim (among others): “As a direct result of the quality of legal education at Rutgers, of those employed nine months after graduation, 90% were employed in the legal field and 90% were in full time positions.” The school was clearly trying to make the economic case for going to law school, something you don’t see as much of in this difficult economy — at least from schools willing to tell the full story of their employment outcomes.

LST Calls for Dean’s Resignation and ABA Investigation
Last week we became aware of an ongoing recruiting campaign by Rutgers – Camden School of Law that targets students who were not considering law school. As a part of this campaign, Camille Andrews, Associate Dean of Enrollment, sent students an email with bold statements about the employment outcomes achieved by the class of 2011. When compared to the school’s self-published employment data, we see Dean Andrew’s statements range from misleading to plainly false. Because the statements made in this email are demonstrably deceptive and are in clear violation of ABA Standard 509, Dean Andrews should resign immediately from her administrative appointment.
There are two important layers to this story. First, Dean Andrews made unfair statements about the employment outcomes of Camden graduates. These statements exaggerate the successful outcomes of Camden graduates and attempt to influence student behavior. The realities of Camden’s placement are far different from what Dean Andrews discloses. (More on this below.)
Second, Camden has extended a special offer for people who haven’t followed the normal application process and haven’t expressed an interest in law school or legal practice. (The email recipients had taken the GMAT, not the LSAT.) The Camden Special allows the students to avoid delay and enroll this August. By portraying Camden as some down-economy safe haven that leads to status and riches, Dean Andrews is attempting to enroll the exact students who ought not to attend law school: people who have not had time to carefully weigh the pros and cons of this significant investment.

From the looks of the appendix cited, the tuition at most law schools has gone up a comparable percentage.

I agree that the cost of tuition is ridiculous, but that can pretty much be said for all of them.

Yet people are still fighting to get into the law schools. I'm not passing judgment on that fact, my point really was only that accepting an unsolicited invitation from Rutgers for the purpose of filling its class isn't a ridiculous notion--especially if it is accompanied by financial aid. My opinion, that's all.

The aging, demented boomer will gracefully bow out of the thread. Good luck to you all, seriously.

(Incidentally, the "um" wasn't intended to be rude--I honestly did not know why my opinion would be considered "boomer babble", which actually DOES sound rude, and rather dismissive. Your points are made, and you guys definitely have it tougher in the employment prospects department than my classmates and I did.)

Law school might be a buyer's market right now but the legal career/field is not. Laws of supply and demand may be bringing the market to equilibrium in the near future.

People are hardly fighting to get into Rutgers Camden right now. This may be mostly from the merger, but I'd bet that the negative press law schools have been getting has something to do with it. Other schools are having trouble filling their classes as well

Let's try a different way. Do you think the legal education you and your classmates received was a only 10% as good as what the students at RU-C are getting now?

I'm sure Camden can fill the class if they are willing to drop down for LSAT and GPA scores. That is why they made the desperation call to the GMAT students. WIth a GMAT they obviously don't have to report an LSAT.

So that is what this school has done, ignored people who took the LSAT but got a lower score than they want, and tried to get business school people to attend.

Can anyone verify the following for the wiki page of rutgers-camden?:

Approximately 40 percent of graduates enter clerkships upon graduation. Rutgers School of Law places the greatest number of graduates into clerkships second only to Yale Law School. The Mitchell H. Cohen Federal Courthouse (across the street from the law school at 4th Street and Cooper Street) is where a large number of students and graduates end up clerking. However, Rutgers graduates have clerked at various levels of local, state and federal government in recent years including for the United States Supreme Court.

Most of them are not federal.

I thought so, and beside it being slightly misleading, do you think that's even true? A lot if implications on their end....

I thought so, and beside it being slightly misleading, do you think that's even true? A lot if implications on their end....

Can anyone verify the following for the wiki page of rutgers-camden?:

Approximately 40 percent of graduates enter clerkships upon graduation. Rutgers School of Law places the greatest number of graduates into clerkships second only to Yale Law School. The Mitchell H. Cohen Federal Courthouse (across the street from the law school at 4th Street and Cooper Street) is where a large number of students and graduates end up clerking. However, Rutgers graduates have clerked at various levels of local, state and federal government in recent years including for the United States Supreme Court.

any chance you could type a bit what the letter said? im struggling to see how the managed to explain that in the letter

Top candidates with LSAT scores of 162 or higher and high academic credential of 3.50 and higher can compete for the Justicia Reperio Justicia (Justice finds Justice) Scholarship Awards. Selected recipients receive $12,000 per year.