how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

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partypajamas
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how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby partypajamas » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:49 pm

are schools like georgetown as good in terms of peer quality and career placement as say....columbia or stanford? is there a big gap between the top of the t14 and bottom?

ajaxconstructions
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby ajaxconstructions » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:50 pm

Yes, there is a sizable difference between schools like CCN and DNCG

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moonman157
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby moonman157 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:57 pm

TLS wisdom is HYS CCN MVPB DCNG as far as tiers within the T14. If there are changes to that though, they may be separating N from CC and P from MVB so that it's HYS CC NP MVB DCNG, and sometimes people will clump MVB with DCNG.

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sharktankdean
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby sharktankdean » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:02 pm

I actually think its Y HS CC NP MVB DNC G. But that might just be me.

partypajamas
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby partypajamas » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:03 pm

is the overall opinion that ANY t14 is worth it? or only HYS?

also, do you guys think cal will fall due to california's budget fail?

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moonman157
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby moonman157 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:06 pm

partypajamas wrote:is the overall opinion that ANY t14 is worth it? or only HYS?


By worth it, do you mean at sticker (full price)? Or just worth going to? Because they're all worth going to, but perhaps not all at full price.

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KevinP
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby KevinP » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:13 pm

moonman157 wrote:
partypajamas wrote:is the overall opinion that ANY t14 is worth it? or only HYS?


By worth it, do you mean at sticker (full price)? Or just worth going to? Because they're all worth going to, but perhaps not all at full price.

+1. There's no way I'd pay sticker at GULC, for example.

My personal view from looking at:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=181723

I'd be willing to pay sticker only at T6 + Penn (Maybe Northwestern). Although to be fair, you are pretty much screwed with six figure debt if you end up unemployed/underemployed, and you can easily accumulate such debt even with schollys. IBR --> tax bomb --> bankrupty FTW.
Last edited by KevinP on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby lawyerwannabe » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:14 pm

Based on prestige and placement, the T14 seem to breakdown:

HYS
CC
NP
MVBDCN
G

H may be lower (for the bottom of its class) only because of its class size. In the end, if you own law school grade wise at H, you will get the best of the best jobs. CC seems to be ahead of N and P seems to be above MV. However, I have yet to see anything that suggest MVB is better in terms of BigLaw and Art. III clerkship placement than DCN. Recently, D has placed about 55-60% of their class into the V100, for example.
Last edited by lawyerwannabe on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sharktankdean
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby sharktankdean » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:15 pm

partypajamas wrote:is the overall opinion that ANY t14 is worth it? or only HYS?

also, do you guys think cal will fall due to california's budget fail?



I think 'worth it' depends on what other schools you got into. Is sticker at Yale worth it over $30,000/per year at Georgetown? Probably Yes. But sticker at Yale over $30,000/per year at Columbia is a different case. Also some People take money at schools ranked 15-20 over DNCG There are really so many factors to consider.

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sharktankdean
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby sharktankdean » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:17 pm

lawyerwannabe wrote:Based on prestige and placement, the T14 seem to breakdown:

YS
H
CC
NP
MVBDCN
G

H only because of its class size. In the end, if you own law school grade wise at H, you will get the best of the best jobs. CC seems to be ahead of N and P seems to be above MV. However, I have yet to see anything that suggest MVB is better in terms of BigLaw and Art. III clerkship placement than DCN. Recently, D has placed about 55-60% of their class into the V100, for example.



If u are using prestige and placement only . Stanford is definitely not higher than Harvard.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby lawyerwannabe » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:19 pm

sharktankdean wrote:
lawyerwannabe wrote:Based on prestige and placement, the T14 seem to breakdown:

YS
H
CC
NP
MVBDCN
G

H only because of its class size. In the end, if you own law school grade wise at H, you will get the best of the best jobs. CC seems to be ahead of N and P seems to be above MV. However, I have yet to see anything that suggest MVB is better in terms of BigLaw and Art. III clerkship placement than DCN. Recently, D has placed about 55-60% of their class into the V100, for example.


If u are using prestige and placement only . Stanford is definitely not higher than Harvard.


Ha. Thought I edited quick enough (see above). And in regards to the bolded, what else should be used to rank schools?

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ben4847
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby ben4847 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:20 pm

sharktankdean wrote:If u are using prestige and placement only . Stanford is definitely not higher than Harvard.


I only use prestige.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby lawyerwannabe » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:24 pm

ben4847 wrote:
sharktankdean wrote:If u are using prestige and placement only . Stanford is definitely not higher than Harvard.


I only use prestige.


Lay prestige or prestige within the law world? Here is "prestige" according to law firm recruiters as reported by U.S. News:

1. Harvard University
2. Stanford University
2. Yale University
4. Columbia University
4. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
6. New York University
6. University of Virginia
8. Cornell University
8. Duke University
8. Northwestern University
8. University of California--Berkeley
8. University of Chicago
13. Georgetown University
13. University of Pennsylvania

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sharktankdean
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby sharktankdean » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:27 pm

lawyerwannabe wrote:
ben4847 wrote:
sharktankdean wrote:If u are using prestige and placement only . Stanford is definitely not higher than Harvard.


I only use prestige.


Lay prestige or prestige within the law world? Here is "prestige" according to law firm recruiters as reported by U.S. News:

1. Harvard University
2. Stanford University
2. Yale University
4. Columbia University
4. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
6. New York University
6. University of Virginia
8. Cornell University
8. Duke University
8. Northwestern University
8. University of California--Berkeley
8. University of Chicago
13. Georgetown University
13. University of Pennsylvania


This is shocking
Last edited by sharktankdean on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby lawyerwannabe » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:28 pm

partypajamas wrote:are schools like georgetown as good in terms of peer quality and career placement as say....columbia or stanford? is there a big gap between the top of the t14 and bottom?


To answer OP instead of going off on a tangent, G is generally has poorer placement than the rest of the T14 because of its large class size. IMO, every school in the T13 has good placement but of course, the truly elite schools like HYSCC have better placement than the rest of the schools in the group.

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ben4847
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby ben4847 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:30 pm

lawyerwannabe wrote:
ben4847 wrote:
sharktankdean wrote:If u are using prestige and placement only . Stanford is definitely not higher than Harvard.


I only use prestige.


Lay prestige or prestige within the law world? Here is "prestige" according to law firm recruiters as reported by U.S. News:

1. Harvard University
2. Stanford University
2. Yale University
4. Columbia University
4. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
6. New York University
6. University of Virginia
8. Cornell University
8. Duke University
8. Northwestern University
8. University of California--Berkeley
8. University of Chicago
13. Georgetown University
13. University of Pennsylvania


That's pretty amazing that it is still the same 14.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby lawyerwannabe » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:30 pm

sharktankdean wrote:
lawyerwannabe wrote:
ben4847 wrote:
sharktankdean wrote:If u are using prestige and placement only . Stanford is definitely not higher than Harvard.


I only use prestige.


Lay prestige or prestige within the law world? Here is "prestige" according to law firm recruiters as reported by U.S. News:

1. Harvard University
2. Stanford University
2. Yale University
4. Columbia University
4. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
6. New York University
6. University of Virginia
8. Cornell University
8. Duke University
8. Northwestern University
8. University of California--Berkeley
8. University of Chicago
13. Georgetown University
13. University of Pennsylvania


This is shocking


Things that could influence these rankings are class size and historical ranking (something that helps Harvard in regards to Yale and helps UMich in general).

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sharktankdean
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby sharktankdean » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:32 pm

lawyerwannabe wrote:
partypajamas wrote:are schools like georgetown as good in terms of peer quality and career placement as say....columbia or stanford? is there a big gap between the top of the t14 and bottom?


To answer OP instead of going off on a tangent, G is generally has poorer placement than the rest of the T14 because of its large class size. IMO, every school in the T13 has good placement but of course, the truly elite schools like HYSCC have better placement than the rest of the schools in the group.



+1

partypajamas
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby partypajamas » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:34 pm

so even at schools like columbia, duke one could still get solid placement?

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sharktankdean
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby sharktankdean » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:37 pm

partypajamas wrote:so even at schools like columbia, duke one could still get solid placement?


Definitely. The T-14 schools have relatively great placement. So you should be aiming for these schools.

rad lulz
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:48 pm

This thread is fucking stupid.

dabbadon8
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby dabbadon8 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:49 pm

rad lulz wrote:This thread is fucking stupid.


+1

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HarlandBassett
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby HarlandBassett » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:07 pm

KevinP wrote: IBR --> tax bomb --> bankrupty FTW.

8)

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rayiner
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:18 pm

HYS carry extra cachet in every market. Even NY firms would rather have an H grad than a CLS grad all else being equal. Maybe U Chicago. That's not true at any of the other T14 as far as I can tell. DC firms don't throw themselves at CLS grads over UVA grads.

Outside HYS, maybe U Chicago, it's all about market, not prestige. CLS benefits from feeding into NY. NY is the biggest market, so people there have a safety net, but that's not going to help you much in say Atlanta.

partypajamas
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Re: how is the lower spectrum of the t14?

Postby partypajamas » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:21 pm

i LOVE california, going to USC for ugrad....do you guys think cal will stay in t14? or fall to fiscal limits due to failing state budget? Of course id LOVE S but i need backup plans as well.




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