Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

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TopHatToad
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby TopHatToad » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:46 pm

dingbat wrote:So he took his SAT IIs in Junior year of college?
As much as I love your story, I claim bull crap


Eh, it's true, but I suppose it doesn't really matter either way. The college used the tests to prove proficiency at any point before graduation.

As to the back-and-forth I'm reading about what OP should do, I'm obviously in the "do something" camp. This guy is so cavalier about his made-up resume that he obviously deserves what he gets for it, I don't think anyone can deny that. I see that OP has confronted the guy; if it makes him feel better he should be free to pursue the issue as long as he likes.

ookoshi
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby ookoshi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:50 pm

Applying_Late wrote:No it's not OK to lie on the law school application, but maybe he didn't. Maybe he is just boasting about it for shits and giggles. If I had to report all the people I thought were lying on their applications, I think administration would get sick of my tattles. So I don't think it's OK for OP to report this unless OP really has proof that this kid lied, and by that I mean gaining access to his LSAC application, his letters, etc. What the hell does linkedin prove? Perhaps it's his alter ego? Perhaps his presidency by some strange definition might be valid. Do you know how the school defines president for that particular club? Is the position clear cut? There is so much here that the OP can get wrong and if the OP f*cks up, the cost is quite high for him. And importance of the crime does matter. You are either in law school or planning to go to it, so I think you know that the law has a lot of grey areas. I wonder how far you'll get reporting jaywalkers to the police station and at what point they will start telling you to stop calling them about reporting the jaywalkers. And that's even worse, you actually saw someone break the law; OP has not, he only has "boasting" to go by.


But the thing is, you're not reporting this to the police. You're right, the importance of the crime does matter. However, so does the audience of your complaint. Let me ask you, how "important" does the admissions office of a university find lying on an admissions application to be? They have to consider that their reputation is on the line, even more so because if they don't investigate a reported instance of fraud and the person did lie to gain admission and their negligence was revealed their reputation would be hurt doubly so. Just because the "crime" may escape investigation by law enforcement because they don't consider it important does not mean it would escape investigation by the admissions office.

In the context of being admitted to law school, the truthfulness of your application is extremely important. That's why your jaywalking analogy is flawed, because you fail to take into account the context and audience.

Applying_Late
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:51 pm

TopHatToad wrote:
dingbat wrote:So he took his SAT IIs in Junior year of college?
As much as I love your story, I claim bull crap


Eh, it's true, but I suppose it doesn't really matter either way. The college used the tests to prove proficiency at any point before graduation.

As to the back-and-forth I'm reading about what OP should do, I'm obviously in the "do something" camp. This guy is so cavalier about his made-up resume that he obviously deserves what he gets for it, I don't think anyone can deny that. I see that OP has confronted the guy; if it makes him feel better he should be free to pursue the issue as long as he likes.


He made up his resume on LinkedIn, which means absolutely nothing. OP needs to get his LS resume to have anything to say. If someone started creating fake LinkedIn accounts with your positions would you confront them and then continue to pursue them? Is there anything wrong with creating alter ego accounts on LinkedIn? Last time I checked this isn't either criminal or morally wrong activity (even without disclaimers). The "do something" camp is to shut up and focus on your own work, because energy wasted on this is not worth the value and can even backfire. I don't think losing his time for LSAT studying, application writing, or jerking off is worth his while in this case.

Applying_Late
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:02 pm

ookoshi wrote:
Applying_Late wrote:No it's not OK to lie on the law school application, but maybe he didn't. Maybe he is just boasting about it for shits and giggles. If I had to report all the people I thought were lying on their applications, I think administration would get sick of my tattles. So I don't think it's OK for OP to report this unless OP really has proof that this kid lied, and by that I mean gaining access to his LSAC application, his letters, etc. What the hell does linkedin prove? Perhaps it's his alter ego? Perhaps his presidency by some strange definition might be valid. Do you know how the school defines president for that particular club? Is the position clear cut? There is so much here that the OP can get wrong and if the OP f*cks up, the cost is quite high for him. And importance of the crime does matter. You are either in law school or planning to go to it, so I think you know that the law has a lot of grey areas. I wonder how far you'll get reporting jaywalkers to the police station and at what point they will start telling you to stop calling them about reporting the jaywalkers. And that's even worse, you actually saw someone break the law; OP has not, he only has "boasting" to go by.


But the thing is, you're not reporting this to the police. You're right, the importance of the crime does matter. However, so does the audience of your complaint. Let me ask you, how "important" does the admissions office of a university find lying on an admissions application to be? They have to consider that their reputation is on the line, even more so because if they don't investigate a reported instance of fraud and the person did lie to gain admission and their negligence was revealed their reputation would be hurt doubly so. Just because the "crime" may escape investigation by law enforcement because they don't consider it important does not mean it would escape investigation by the admissions office.

In the context of being admitted to law school, the truthfulness of your application is extremely important. That's why your jaywalking analogy is flawed, because you fail to take into account the context and audience.


No, I don't think the context or the audience is different. If anything law enforcement by definition should be the paragon of rule following. Anyway, I hope that admissions does care about lying, but have you read what I said? I said it's not OK to lie (doesn't mean admissions really does), but we are speculating here. A boast doesn't mean he is lying; a linkedin account doesn't mean he is lying. We don't know what the definition of president was/is for that club and school; we don't know what his recommenders wrote; and we don't know what he really wrote on his resume. The burden of proof is on OP, and if he goes around tattling and it doesn't appear to be true, then OP will not be looked upon nicely. In fact, the other student may even be able to get the tattler in trouble for causing such stupidity.

Back to admissions and lying, let me give you another example: at Harvard Law a couple years ago, a student printed multiple copies of their resume during OCI, that is, the student left multiple copies of their resume on tables so that recruiters can see that student's resume first. Oddly, the student claimed on their resume to have won awards at HLS that didn't even exist. Admissions/administration/students/law firms didn't care. They just found it silly. And for those that reported that student, well they were laughed at. So back to your question about how much they care, well, I'm not sure how much they *do* care--again the crime which is purely speculative is extremely minor and even if true that he claims to be president and that was the center of his law school application, it might be so convoluted of a position that he actually might have had the right to claim it.

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North
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby North » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:11 pm

Bro, are you bored in between DUI defense hearings or something? All this shadow of a doubt kind of argument has no place here. The guy isn't on trial. OP would be well within his rights to call the kid out in person, or send an anonymous letter to LSAC/the kid's reccommenders (who -- possibly -- were lied to). If the guy did lie on the apps, then he'll get caught. If he didn't, no harm. No risk to OP there.

Applying_Late
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:25 pm

North wrote:Bro, are you bored in between DUI defense hearings or something? All this shadow of a doubt kind of argument has no place here. The guy isn't on trial. OP would be well within his rights to call the kid out in person, or send an anonymous letter to LSAC/the kid's reccommenders (who -- possibly -- were lied to). If the guy did lie on the apps, then he'll get caught. If he didn't, no harm. No risk to OP there.


Sure he is well within his right. If the kid who is investigated can prove intent of malice on the OPs behalf, an anonymous letter would be deemed illegal. For OPs sake I hope that he gets in trouble unless he has some solid evidence to go back his claim.

EdgarWinter
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby EdgarWinter » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:35 pm

OP said on Tuesday that they would confront their nemesis on Wednesday. It is now Thursday and OP was online an hour ago. Where is the update? We all want to know what happened.

katesearches
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby katesearches » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:06 pm

I haven't read most of the recent posts here yet, but will read them later if I have time. Also, btw, I'm a GIRL. :roll: Some of the posts I've skimmed seemed to implicate I was a guy or something.

So I confronted the dude after class. I told him I saw his LinkedIn profile/resume, and asked if that was an accurate reflection of what he plans on using on his resume for law school. He said yes. Then I pulled his hair out, scratched his eyeballs, kicked him in the balls, and gave him a wedgie. :mrgreen:

I was kidding.

But really, after he said yes, I told him that it was "inconsistent" with his actual activities in the club, and the reality as he and I both know. As he knows, I was president, etc, blah blah blah. He looked embarassed and said something like "well, I thought we could all put president on our resume, since you know we all participated and whatnot, and technically we could all have tried out for the position, and like you know, I thought you wouldn't maybe mind, like if you could help me a little".

Whatevs. I told him that these kind of inconsistencies could be frowned upon by LSAC/LS Admissions if reported, and they would make any admissions council members wonder why someone would put a false position, regardless of how important it is/isn't during the application process. Guy kinda paled, so I told him that it would be best if he fixes this ASAP.

Checked LinkedIn when I got home and it was gone. Honestly don't know if this means he won't lie on the actual resume/applying to law school....

katesearches
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby katesearches » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:09 pm

TopHatToad wrote:FWIW, I've dealt with this rather successfully in the past.

Had an old roommate who was the perfect future-sleazebag lawyer: narcissism, opportunism, stinginess and douchebaggery. There were plenty of times he paid people to take tests for him, write papers, etc. including having someone take the SAT II language test for him because he was too lazy to take the ONE required foreign language class.

So fall semester of his senior year, he's applying to law schools and gets a letter "in the mail" from "the university". On official letterhead, I informed him that they had recently found testing discrepancies on his SAT II (taken about a year prior) and that he had an appointment with judicial in the near future. Understandably, he flips his shit.

Fast forward three weeks. In the meantime, I'd been sending followup letters and even got a friend in judicial to call him and say that (kid who took the test for him) had confessed. No hope, right? Well he shows up for his appointment in a random room I'd selected, and a bunch of us all bust out with a combination surprise party/public shaming.

I didn't actually want to screw with his future career, but in the meantime he'd been forced to admit his cheating to his parents and girlfriend (who broke up with him), since he expected to at least be suspended from UG. He never really spoke to me again, but damn it felt good. 8)

...OP, know anyone with official letterhead?


ha............. are you serious? I could be sued for misusing official letterhead like that. no way. maybe as a high school prank, but nuh uh...

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North
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby North » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:29 pm

katesearches wrote:I haven't read most of the recent posts here yet, but will read them later if I have time. Also, btw, I'm a GIRL. :roll: Some of the posts I've skimmed seemed to implicate I was a guy or something.

So I confronted the dude after class. I told him I saw his LinkedIn profile/resume, and asked if that was an accurate reflection of what he plans on using on his resume for law school. He said yes. Then I pulled his hair out, scratched his eyeballs, kicked him in the balls, and gave him a wedgie. :mrgreen:

I was kidding.

But really, after he said yes, I told him that it was "inconsistent" with his actual activities in the club, and the reality as he and I both know. As he knows, I was president, etc, blah blah blah. He looked embarassed and said something like "well, I thought we could all put president on our resume, since you know we all participated and whatnot, and technically we could all have tried out for the position, and like you know, I thought you wouldn't maybe mind, like if you could help me a little".

Whatevs. I told him that these kind of inconsistencies could be frowned upon by LSAC/LS Admissions if reported, and they would make any admissions council members wonder why someone would put a false position, regardless of how important it is/isn't during the application process. Guy kinda paled, so I told him that it would be best if he fixes this ASAP.

Checked LinkedIn when I got home and it was gone. Honestly don't know if this means he won't lie on the actual resume/applying to law school....

Great job OP!

timetoleave
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby timetoleave » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:23 am

katesearches wrote:I haven't read most of the recent posts here yet, but will read them later if I have time. Also, btw, I'm a GIRL.


In that case, the credited response is

rayiner wrote: OP is entirely justified in ruining this guys career/sleeping with his girlfriend/etc.


But seriously, you did the right thing. Nice job

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Nova
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Nova » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:42 am

North wrote:Great job OP!

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BVest
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby BVest » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:11 pm

TopHatToad wrote:[See above original post]


Seriously? That's a violation of the honor code at some schools and certainly a disciplinary violation at any school. Furthermore, if what he had done was in fact a violation of the honor code, not reporting him properly may itself have been a violation.

FTR, I know someone who was expelled from HYS undergrad for forging a signature on a housing form. This person had not had any previous disciplinary proceedings.
Last edited by BVest on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TopHatToad
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby TopHatToad » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:37 pm

BVest wrote:
TopHatToad wrote:Had an old roommate who was the perfect future-sleazebag lawyer: narcissism, opportunism, stinginess and douchebaggery. There were plenty of times he paid people to take tests for him, write papers, etc. including having someone take the SAT II language test for him because he was too lazy to take the ONE required foreign language class.

So fall semester of his senior year, he's applying to law schools and gets a letter "in the mail" from "the university". On official letterhead, I informed him that they had recently found testing discrepancies on his SAT II (taken about a year prior) and that he had an appointment with judicial in the near future. Understandably, he flips his shit.


Seriously? That's a violation of the honor code at some schools and certainly a disciplinary violation at any school. Furthermore, if what he had done was in fact a violation of the honor code, not reporting him properly may itself have been a violation.

FTR, I know someone who was expelled from HYS undergrad for forging a signature on a housing form. This person had not had any previous disciplinary proceedings.


Missing the point here-- at the time I posted my story, people were debating whether or not to launch a nuclear strike on this kid. I was only relating what I did to show that you can get back at someone without punching them, sleeping with their girlfriend or reporting them to LSAC. And I certainly covered my ass; there was never any hard proof to link it back to me, and unlike your HYS friend these letters never touched any university hands.

OP, great job in diffusing the situation as best you could! He may still do unethical things in the future, but the shaming you gave him will make him think twice about ever doing it with your accomplishments.

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Nova
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Nova » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:00 pm

TopHatToad wrote: And I certainly covered my ass; there was never any hard proof to link it back to me, and unlike your HYS friend these letters never touched any university hands.

OP, great job in diffusing the situation as best you could! He may still do unethical things in the future, but the shaming you gave him will make him think twice about ever doing it with your accomplishments.


You just uncovered your ass by posting it on a public forum. Just saying (not that it will ever come back to bite you).

I am fairly certain that this guy WILL do unethical things in the future, but at least not to OP.

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BVest
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby BVest » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:15 pm

Nova wrote:You just uncovered your ass by posting it on a public forum.


This.

And truly covering your ass is not doing something that dumb in the first place. If you do, don't tell anyone, even "anonymously."

Lastly, universities can and do rescind degrees. I suspect it would be unlikely in your case (as your situation doesn't sound like fraud pertinent to your admission or completion of your degree), but it's out there.

ETA: BTW, I'll edit my previous post to remove your quote, in case you want to delete your original.

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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby jkpolk » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:18 pm

BVest wrote:
TopHatToad wrote:[See above original post]


Seriously? That's a violation of the honor code at some schools and certainly a disciplinary violation at any school. Furthermore, if what he had done was in fact a violation of the honor code, not reporting him properly may itself have been a violation.

FTR, I know someone who was expelled from HYS undergrad for forging a signature on a housing form. This person had not had any previous disciplinary proceedings.

you sound like you'd be fun at go to parties

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fatduck
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby fatduck » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:45 pm

BVest wrote:
Nova wrote:You just uncovered your ass by posting it on a public forum.


This.

And truly covering your ass is not doing something that dumb in the first place. If you do, don't tell anyone, even "anonymously."

Lastly, universities can and do rescind degrees. I suspect it would be unlikely in your case (as your situation doesn't sound like fraud pertinent to your admission or completion of your degree), but it's out there.

ETA: BTW, I'll edit my previous post to remove your quote, in case you want to delete your original.

a gentleman and a scholar

andreasmommy
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby andreasmommy » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:51 pm

This same thing happened to me. I was president of this club that another girl was claiming presidency of, and she too posted it on LINKEDIN. Her and I are both applying for the same cycle also.


Your solution is simple: Your professors that write your letters of rec should address your academic career (being president of whatever clubs) and any other activities you were apart of. GIve them your CV before they write your letters.

My letters of rec are addressing everything I was academically involved in, and also my internships and volunteer stuff. So if that girl puts the same info as me, law schools will know she is lying.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:41 pm

LinkedIn seems to be the problem.

andreasmommy
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby andreasmommy » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:20 pm

JDizzle2015 wrote:
tc22 wrote:From this thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=187070

andreasmommy wrote:I know people lie on their resume and CV because this girl I went to college with posted she was president of SAC club. I laughed so hard. I was president of that club, and I was also the founder.

People like that may get caught. And she will get caught if she applies to the same law schools as me because two of my letters of recs. talk about all the clubs I was president of.


Is this the boasting you speak of?

Maybe a weak, but semi-elaborate trolling attempt.



This is my post, and it is not trolling at all. It is true. Because the girl that goes to the same school as me, her CV popped up on my "ppl you may know." Also, I have no relation to the person who posted this, we just have similar circumstances.

And as I have previously stated in this thread, a solution. Your letters of recs from professors should talk about your academic involvement (clubs, volunteering). Maybe your club had an academic advisor, ask them for a letter of rec. Also, some professors will ask you for a resume or CV before writing a letter of rec, I know several of my professors do that. However, if they don't ask for a resume or CV it still doesn't hurt to hand them one when you ask for a letter of rec.

katesearches
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby katesearches » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:14 pm

andreasmommy wrote:This same thing happened to me. I was president of this club that another girl was claiming presidency of, and she too posted it on LINKEDIN. Her and I are both applying for the same cycle also.


Your solution is simple: Your professors that write your letters of rec should address your academic career (being president of whatever clubs) and any other activities you were apart of. GIve them your CV before they write your letters.

My letters of rec are addressing everything I was academically involved in, and also my internships and volunteer stuff. So if that girl puts the same info as me, law schools will know she is lying.


Are situation is similar but a little different. I already have my LORs lined up. One is from a volunteer thing I've done for a long time (so work I guess). Another is a lecturer. (I wrote above this in an earlier post).

I'm pretty sure when they wrote the LOR, they didn't include any of these activities, and instead focused on stuff I did in the position they knew me as (volunteer, student in lecture, etc).

There was a faculty advisor, but I barely knew him. I suppose he could write a letter saying "I was the FA, And kate was president, etc" but it would be a generic, possibly even more damaging letter, than a glowing one from the director of an organization where I volunteered for a long time.

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fatduck
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby fatduck » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:18 pm

andreasmommy wrote:
JDizzle2015 wrote:
tc22 wrote:From this thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=187070

andreasmommy wrote:I know people lie on their resume and CV because this girl I went to college with posted she was president of SAC club. I laughed so hard. I was president of that club, and I was also the founder.

People like that may get caught. And she will get caught if she applies to the same law schools as me because two of my letters of recs. talk about all the clubs I was president of.


Is this the boasting you speak of?

Maybe a weak, but semi-elaborate trolling attempt.



This is my post, and it is not trolling at all. It is true. Because the girl that goes to the same school as me, her CV popped up on my "ppl you may know." Also, I have no relation to the person who posted this, we just have similar circumstances.

And as I have previously stated in this thread, a solution. Your letters of recs from professors should talk about your academic involvement (clubs, volunteering). Maybe your club had an academic advisor, ask them for a letter of rec. Also, some professors will ask you for a resume or CV before writing a letter of rec, I know several of my professors do that. However, if they don't ask for a resume or CV it still doesn't hurt to hand them one when you ask for a letter of rec.

you're still not in the clear, because your rival's LORs may also describe them as club president. if this occurs, LSAC will flag the discrepancy in your file and initiate an interference proceeding. basically, you each have 60 days to provide additional proof (e.g., signed declarations from faculty/admins at your school, or other members of the club, or other documentation that may prove your case) along with an appeal brief. a three judge panel reviews the submissions and delivers a ruling on who gets to claim the president role. in some cases, the panel may recommend an in-person hearing, but this is very uncommon.

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JDizzle2015
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby JDizzle2015 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:21 pm

lost me at "three judge panel" haha

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YCrevolution
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby YCrevolution » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:22 pm

..




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