Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

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Tom Joad
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Tom Joad » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:45 pm

timetoleave wrote:If they stick their head in an come out hairless and blind, they won't do it again.

I am proof postive this isn't always true.

timetoleave
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby timetoleave » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:43 pm

I don't know if it was the matter of factness of your post, or Kevin James, but either way I laughed

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rftdd888
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby rftdd888 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:14 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
North wrote:Is there no tactful way for OP to out this awful person to schools, LSAC, or C&F? Maybe confront him in person?

One fewer budding sleazebag lawyer out there.

Why would you out this person? Mind your own business. Sleazebag lawyers aren't nearly as serious a societal problem as nosy assholes getting in everyone else's business.


yeah, i agree. if this guy is really this much of a sleazebag he's going to get his just desserts in life anyway. just let it go.

i don't think they'll think anything of it, or notice it, anyway.

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hyakku
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby hyakku » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:15 pm

So let me ask the people saying he should do absolutely nothing (I don't think I'd go to his LS because I'm too lazy to, but I'd definitely confront him asap): would you be down to send me your papers or memos for 1L classes next year and ok with me just changing the names and submitting it?

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Tom Joad
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Tom Joad » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:17 pm

hyakku wrote:So let me ask the people saying he should do absolutely nothing (I don't think I'd go to his LS because I'm too lazy to, but I'd definitely confront him asap): would you be down to send me your papers or memos for 1L classes next year and ok with me just changing the names and submitting it?

No because then I would be commiting a dishonest academic act.

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rftdd888
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby rftdd888 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:54 pm

hyakku wrote:So let me ask the people saying he should do absolutely nothing (I don't think I'd go to his LS because I'm too lazy to, but I'd definitely confront him asap): would you be down to send me your papers or memos for 1L classes next year and ok with me just changing the names and submitting it?


that doesn't really seem like the same thing, does it? this is just a guy embellishing his activity in a student organization.

considering the fact that anyone could (and probably should) invent a bullshit organization just to have that type of soft on their resume, i don't really see a HUGE problem with it. obviously it sucks if you're the real president and actually put in the work etc. but at the end of the day you still get to claim your experience on your own application regardless of what he does.

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eandy
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby eandy » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:59 pm

Tl;dr but this sounds like an honor code violation if your school has one

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North
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby North » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:14 pm

rriles wrote:
hyakku wrote:So let me ask the people saying he should do absolutely nothing (I don't think I'd go to his LS because I'm too lazy to, but I'd definitely confront him asap): would you be down to send me your papers or memos for 1L classes next year and ok with me just changing the names and submitting it?


that doesn't really seem like the same thing, does it? this is just a guy embellishing his activity in a student organization.

considering the fact that anyone could (and probably should) invent a bullshit organization just to have that type of soft on their resume, i don't really see a HUGE problem with it. obviously it sucks if you're the real president and actually put in the work etc. but at the end of the day you still get to claim your experience on your own application regardless of what he does.

I think you've missed the point: the guy plans to blatantly lie on a law school application. That's not okay and OP should do something about it, especially because he actually held that position. At the very least, it's and honor code violation at the UG.

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rayiner
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby rayiner » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:30 pm

rriles wrote:
hyakku wrote:So let me ask the people saying he should do absolutely nothing (I don't think I'd go to his LS because I'm too lazy to, but I'd definitely confront him asap): would you be down to send me your papers or memos for 1L classes next year and ok with me just changing the names and submitting it?


that doesn't really seem like the same thing, does it? this is just a guy embellishing his activity in a student organization.

considering the fact that anyone could (and probably should) invent a bullshit organization just to have that type of soft on their resume, i don't really see a HUGE problem with it. obviously it sucks if you're the real president and actually put in the work etc. but at the end of the day you still get to claim your experience on your own application regardless of what he does.


It's one thing to invent a bullshit organization and put it on your resume. That's just you committing fraud, and it's between you and the admissions folks. But by claiming that he did something OP actually did, sleaze-bag brought in not just OP, but his recommenders, who he got to sign their names to his fraudulent misrepresentation. OP is entirely justified in ruining this guys career/sleeping with his girlfriend/etc.

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:34 pm

I agree with rayiner except for the whole girlfriend part. Take the sleaze bag down, OP!

Renzo
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Renzo » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:35 pm

SchopenhauerFTW wrote:I agree with rayiner except for the whole girlfriend part.


Shit, that was the only part I agreed with. Seems like a fair measure of restitution to me.

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TopHatToad
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby TopHatToad » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:36 pm

FWIW, I've dealt with this rather successfully in the past.

Had an old roommate who was the perfect future-sleazebag lawyer: narcissism, opportunism, stinginess and douchebaggery. There were plenty of times he paid people to take tests for him, write papers, etc. including having someone take the SAT II language test for him because he was too lazy to take the ONE required foreign language class.

So fall semester of his senior year, he's applying to law schools and gets a letter "in the mail" from "the university". On official letterhead, I informed him that they had recently found testing discrepancies on his SAT II (taken about a year prior) and that he had an appointment with judicial in the near future. Understandably, he flips his shit.

Fast forward three weeks. In the meantime, I'd been sending followup letters and even got a friend in judicial to call him and say that (kid who took the test for him) had confessed. No hope, right? Well he shows up for his appointment in a random room I'd selected, and a bunch of us all bust out with a combination surprise party/public shaming.

I didn't actually want to screw with his future career, but in the meantime he'd been forced to admit his cheating to his parents and girlfriend (who broke up with him), since he expected to at least be suspended from UG. He never really spoke to me again, but damn it felt good. 8)

...OP, know anyone with official letterhead?

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:39 pm

TopHatToad wrote:FWIW, I've dealt with this rather successfully in the past.

Had an old roommate who was the perfect future-sleazebag lawyer: narcissism, opportunism, stinginess and douchebaggery. There were plenty of times he paid people to take tests for him, write papers, etc. including having someone take the SAT II language test for him because he was too lazy to take the ONE required foreign language class.

So fall semester of his senior year, he's applying to law schools and gets a letter "in the mail" from "the university". On official letterhead, I informed him that they had recently found testing discrepancies on his SAT II (taken about a year prior) and that he had an appointment with judicial in the near future. Understandably, he flips his shit.

Fast forward three weeks. In the meantime, I'd been sending followup letters and even got a friend in judicial to call him and say that (kid who took the test for him) had confessed. No hope, right? Well he shows up for his appointment in a random room I'd selected, and a bunch of us all bust out with a combination surprise party/public shaming.

I didn't actually want to screw with his future career, but in the meantime he'd been forced to admit his cheating to his parents and girlfriend (who broke up with him), since he expected to at least be suspended from UG. He never really spoke to me again, but damn it felt good. 8)

...OP, know anyone with official letterhead?


180. Would read again. You are my hero.

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North
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby North » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:41 pm

TopHatToad wrote:FWIW, I've dealt with this rather successfully in the past.

Had an old roommate who was the perfect future-sleazebag lawyer: narcissism, opportunism, stinginess and douchebaggery. There were plenty of times he paid people to take tests for him, write papers, etc. including having someone take the SAT II language test for him because he was too lazy to take the ONE required foreign language class.

So fall semester of his senior year, he's applying to law schools and gets a letter "in the mail" from "the university". On official letterhead, I informed him that they had recently found testing discrepancies on his SAT II (taken about a year prior) and that he had an appointment with judicial in the near future. Understandably, he flips his shit.

Fast forward three weeks. In the meantime, I'd been sending followup letters and even got a friend in judicial to call him and say that (kid who took the test for him) had confessed. No hope, right? Well he shows up for his appointment in a random room I'd selected, and a bunch of us all bust out with a combination surprise party/public shaming.

I didn't actually want to screw with his future career, but in the meantime he'd been forced to admit his cheating to his parents and girlfriend (who broke up with him), since he expected to at least be suspended from UG. He never really spoke to me again, but damn it felt good. 8)

...OP, know anyone with official letterhead?

And we have a winner.

Applying_Late
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:52 pm

North wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
North wrote:Is there no tactful way for OP to out this awful person to schools, LSAC, or C&F? Maybe confront him in person?

One fewer budding sleazebag lawyer out there.

Why would you out this person? Mind your own business. Sleazebag lawyers aren't nearly as serious a societal problem as nosy assholes getting in everyone else's business.

I'm confused by the hostility. OP knows a guy is lying on a law school app and that lie could hurt OP's application. That sounds like his business.


And so what? Is he supposed to be a policeman about something this stupid? Perhaps he doesn't have his facts straight. This sounds like a stupid investigation about something so minor that I'd question the OP's motivation behind outing this person. If the person is lying, he'll deal with it later. This is too trivial to make any damn difference in his law school admissions.

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warandpeace
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby warandpeace » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:56 pm

Find out which schools he's applying to, as well as his LSAT/Gpa range. At least the stress of knowing if he's competition or not will be eliminated.

Applying_Late
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:56 pm

Ded Precedent wrote:
mattviphky wrote:i bet if op asked if being the president of a club would be beneficial for admissions, no one would even say that it makes any difference.

That's not the point. If I was the president of a club and someone else was claiming to hold my position I would call them out on it regardless of whether or not I planned on listing it on a resume or application.


It would be wiser if you were a gentleman about it and let others find discrepancies. For example, look to Yahoo CEO and how he fell. If this kid is to be caught, let the system filter him, not OP.

Applying_Late
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:58 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
ookoshi wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Why would you out this person? Mind your own business. Sleazebag lawyers aren't nearly as serious a societal problem as nosy assholes getting in everyone else's business.


When the asshole started causing potential problems for the OP, he made it the OPs business. If the OP wanted to out him, I wouldn't blame them. Besides, if minding your own business is your mantra, why are you minding the OP's?

HURRR DURRRRRR


That's why you will never get ahead in life.


What's this supposed to mean? That outing someone is going to get you ahead? Consider how whistleblowers are treated--they are the scourge of life.

Applying_Late
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:01 pm

danquayle wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
North wrote:Is there no tactful way for OP to out this awful person to schools, LSAC, or C&F? Maybe confront him in person?

One fewer budding sleazebag lawyer out there.

Why would you out this person? Mind your own business. Sleazebag lawyers aren't nearly as serious a societal problem as nosy assholes getting in everyone else's business.


This is exactly the kind of thing legal ethics tells lawyers NOT to look the other way on. It's the same reason some schools/bars ask about speeding tickets, etc --> if you're willing to lie about something so mundane as club presidency to further your interests, chances are you'd be willing to lie about something far more serious and potentially damaging to a client to further your interests.

Heck, I'd argue that this could be something OP would be ethically bound to report were he already a member of a bar.

Yes - lawyers are ethically bound to protect the public's faith in its legal institutions by self-policing the sleazebag lawyers amongst their ranks. We are not ethically bound to dampen nosy assholes.


Ethics doesn't comprise of a simple formula, and I think there is a cost-benefit analysis here that you are missing.

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fatduck
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby fatduck » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:02 pm

are y'all serious right now, this guy is apparently in the same lsat prep class as OP, and is bragging about claiming the president position and using his references to bolster his credibility. presumably, right in front of OP, while others watch and chortle.

OP's response, thus far, has been to post about it on TLS, probably because OP foolishly believes in karma or justice or some shit like you do.

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dresden doll
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby dresden doll » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:05 pm

TopHatToad wrote:FWIW, I've dealt with this rather successfully in the past.

Had an old roommate who was the perfect future-sleazebag lawyer: narcissism, opportunism, stinginess and douchebaggery. There were plenty of times he paid people to take tests for him, write papers, etc. including having someone take the SAT II language test for him because he was too lazy to take the ONE required foreign language class.

So fall semester of his senior year, he's applying to law schools and gets a letter "in the mail" from "the university". On official letterhead, I informed him that they had recently found testing discrepancies on his SAT II (taken about a year prior) and that he had an appointment with judicial in the near future. Understandably, he flips his shit.

Fast forward three weeks. In the meantime, I'd been sending followup letters and even got a friend in judicial to call him and say that (kid who took the test for him) had confessed. No hope, right? Well he shows up for his appointment in a random room I'd selected, and a bunch of us all bust out with a combination surprise party/public shaming.

I didn't actually want to screw with his future career, but in the meantime he'd been forced to admit his cheating to his parents and girlfriend (who broke up with him), since he expected to at least be suspended from UG. He never really spoke to me again, but damn it felt good. 8)

...OP, know anyone with official letterhead?


This is awesome.

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North
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby North » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:06 pm

Applying_Late wrote:
North wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
North wrote:Is there no tactful way for OP to out this awful person to schools, LSAC, or C&F? Maybe confront him in person?

One fewer budding sleazebag lawyer out there.

Why would you out this person? Mind your own business. Sleazebag lawyers aren't nearly as serious a societal problem as nosy assholes getting in everyone else's business.

I'm confused by the hostility. OP knows a guy is lying on a law school app and that lie could hurt OP's application. That sounds like his business.


And so what? Is he supposed to be a policeman about something this stupid? Perhaps he doesn't have his facts straight. This sounds like a stupid investigation about something so minor that I'd question the OP's motivation behind outing this person. If the person is lying, he'll deal with it later. This is too trivial to make any damn difference in his law school admissions.


It doesn't matter how important a part of the admissions process you think this soft is, It is not okay to lie on a law school application and it is definitely not okay to blatantly commandeer somebody else's soft in telling that lie. If the guy telling the lie has been so obvious in his fraud that the actual president of the club found out, then of course that person should play the policeman and report him. This non-confrontational, "even though it's wrong, it's not important enough" talk is pathetic. There is no cost benefit analysis to be had here, it's wrong and there's action that can be taken to correct it. OP should take that action like a boss and teach this douchebag a lesson.

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dresden doll
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby dresden doll » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:08 pm

In all seriousness, I'd let it go. In the incredibly unlikely event adcomms notice anything, they'll probably just figure you two shared the position (were co-presidents, co-founders, etc.). I've certainly had the same title as one other person in more than a couple of clubs I was part of in college/lawl school.

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dingbat
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby dingbat » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:14 pm

TopHatToad wrote:FWIW, I've dealt with this rather successfully in the past.

Had an old roommate who was the perfect future-sleazebag lawyer: narcissism, opportunism, stinginess and douchebaggery. There were plenty of times he paid people to take tests for him, write papers, etc. including having someone take the SAT II language test for him because he was too lazy to take the ONE required foreign language class.

So fall semester of his senior year, he's applying to law schools and gets a letter "in the mail" from "the university". On official letterhead, I informed him that they had recently found testing discrepancies on his SAT II (taken about a year prior) and that he had an appointment with judicial in the near future. Understandably, he flips his shit.

Fast forward three weeks. In the meantime, I'd been sending followup letters and even got a friend in judicial to call him and say that (kid who took the test for him) had confessed. No hope, right? Well he shows up for his appointment in a random room I'd selected, and a bunch of us all bust out with a combination surprise party/public shaming.

I didn't actually want to screw with his future career, but in the meantime he'd been forced to admit his cheating to his parents and girlfriend (who broke up with him), since he expected to at least be suspended from UG. He never really spoke to me again, but damn it felt good. 8)

...OP, know anyone with official letterhead?

So he took his SAT IIs in Junior year of college?
As much as I love your story, I claim bull crap

Applying_Late
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Re: Someone claiming my position in activity on application?

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:15 pm

North wrote:

It doesn't matter how important a part of the admissions process you think this soft is, It is not okay to lie on a law school application and it is definitely not okay to blatantly commandeer somebody else's soft in telling that lie. If the guy telling the lie has been so obvious in his fraud that the actual president of the club found out, then of course that person should play the policeman and report him. This non-confrontational, "even though it's wrong, it's not important enough" talk is pathetic. There is no cost benefit analysis to be had here, it's wrong and there's action that can be taken to correct it.


No it's not OK to lie on the law school application, but maybe he didn't. Maybe he is just boasting about it for shits and giggles. If I had to report all the people I thought were lying on their applications, I think administration would get sick of my tattles. So I don't think it's OK for OP to report this unless OP really has proof that this kid lied, and by that I mean gaining access to his LSAC application, his letters, etc. What the hell does linkedin prove? Perhaps it's his alter ego? Perhaps his presidency by some strange definition might be valid. Do you know how the school defines president for that particular club? Is the position clear cut? There is so much here that the OP can get wrong and if the OP f*cks up, the cost is quite high for him. And importance of the crime does matter. You are either in law school or planning to go to it, so I think you know that the law has a lot of grey areas. I wonder how far you'll get reporting jaywalkers to the police station and at what point they will start telling you to stop calling them about reporting the jaywalkers. And that's even worse, you actually saw someone break the law; OP has not, he only has "boasting" to go by.




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