Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

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StarLightSpectre
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby StarLightSpectre » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:18 pm

dingbat wrote:Let's cut this down to something simple.
Take the LSAT.
If you don't score at least 173, stick to being a doctor
If you score 173+, you should be able to get into the schools that will give you a very good chance at biglaw.
Then, if you are still willing to risk it, go for it.
If your grades are below the cutoff for V5, drop out and go back to medicine


You have a great fall-back option, so why not risk it, if that is what you really want to do


If anything this.

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dingbat
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby dingbat » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:19 pm

Samara wrote:
MD to JD wrote:Solid advice. Can you tell me more about v5 versus v100? That means top 5 vault firms, right?

What does that mean in the real world in terms of money and opportunities? I thought all biglaw started at 160.

I guess the first step is to man up and take the LSAT. Perhaps I should avoid law school unless I can score HYS?

What's your GPA? If it's below 3.7, you're pretty much out of luck for YSH no matter what you score on the LSAT.

Unless you invented an artificial heart, or something like that
Yale lives that kind of shit

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby MD to JD » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:19 pm

It's always been my understanding that a top JD opens more doors than a Chicago/HBS/Wharton MBA.

Can you tell me more about this pathway, what kind of work it would entail, and possible cash flow?

I didn't do medicine for the money, although the money is great. I did it for the patients, but I cannot overstate how much medicine is changing, and how difficult it is becoming to put the patients first.

If I can't practice medicine the way I love, and on top of that, it can be boring, why not go for a challenging career working in international law or business?

I don't think I will have any problem getting into HBS or Wharton with my background and contacts and experience.

score12905 wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:If you want to work in London/Hong Kong, why not go get an MBA and work with a bank's healthcare/pharmaceutical group?



I agree. Check out Wharton or HBS's healthcare resume book. There are a number of MD's in there but mostly all went to Penn or Harvard. The level of competition is still high so I wouldn't kid yourself that you can just slide in. Business school admissions are much less focused on #'s and want quality work experience.

Don't do law school to make more money. If you went into medicine for the same reason, you would be foolish to make the same mistake twice. Anyone with half a brain saw provider reimbursement cuts coming. Law school and biglaw aren't as lucrative as you are thinking, assuming that you aren't a pediatrician and indeed make 500k. You are making out much better than your peers but if you aren't stimulated enough, add on a top MBA and profit.

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby MD to JD » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:20 pm

dingbat wrote:I'm in a similar boat and it scares the bejesus out of me, but I'm going anyway


What's your story?

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby dingbat » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:21 pm

JD-MBA at Harvard

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dowu
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby dowu » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:22 pm

Samara wrote:
MD to JD wrote:Solid advice. Can you tell me more about v5 versus v100? That means top 5 vault firms, right?

What does that mean in the real world in terms of money and opportunities? I thought all biglaw started at 160.

I guess the first step is to man up and take the LSAT. Perhaps I should avoid law school unless I can score HYS?

What's your GPA? If it's below 3.7, you're pretty much out of luck for YSH no matter what you score on the LSAT.


Not necessarily true. Do you know how medians work?
Last edited by dowu on Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

score12905
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby score12905 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:22 pm

...
Last edited by score12905 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Samara
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby Samara » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:23 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
Samara wrote:
MD to JD wrote:Solid advice. Can you tell me more about v5 versus v100? That means top 5 vault firms, right?

What does that mean in the real world in terms of money and opportunities? I thought all biglaw started at 160.

I guess the first step is to man up and take the LSAT. Perhaps I should avoid law school unless I can score HYS?

What's your GPA? If it's below 3.7, you're pretty much out of luck for YSH no matter what you score on the LSAT.


Not necessarily true. Do you know how medians work?

Do you know how GPA floors work?

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby MD to JD » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:23 pm

Samara wrote:
MD to JD wrote:Solid advice. Can you tell me more about v5 versus v100? That means top 5 vault firms, right?

What does that mean in the real world in terms of money and opportunities? I thought all biglaw started at 160.

I guess the first step is to man up and take the LSAT. Perhaps I should avoid law school unless I can score HYS?

What's your GPA? If it's below 3.7, you're pretty much out of luck for YSH no matter what you score on the LSAT.


Below 3.7.

You think HYS will reject me based on an undergrad gpa > 10 years ago, with my accomplishments since? Thanks for the no hold barred assessment.

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:24 pm

The client-doctor relationship seems important to you. Is working with them directly part of that equation? If it is, run, don't walk, from large law firms. Good luck meeting clients as a junior associate, unless you are in a smaller practice group.

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dingbat
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby dingbat » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:26 pm

MD to JD wrote:
dingbat wrote:I'm in a similar boat and it scares the bejesus out of me, but I'm going anyway


What's your story?

Not on a public message board.

Synopsis: I work in a very niche area of finance and I've achieved all I can possibly achieve here.
I want to transition to the legal side as I believe there's more room for personal growth.
Due to certain aspects I cannot disclose, once I'm out of it, it's almost impossible to get back in.

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Samara
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby Samara » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:26 pm

MD to JD wrote:
Samara wrote:
MD to JD wrote:Solid advice. Can you tell me more about v5 versus v100? That means top 5 vault firms, right?

What does that mean in the real world in terms of money and opportunities? I thought all biglaw started at 160.

I guess the first step is to man up and take the LSAT. Perhaps I should avoid law school unless I can score HYS?

What's your GPA? If it's below 3.7, you're pretty much out of luck for YSH no matter what you score on the LSAT.


Below 3.7.

You think HYS will reject me based on an undergrad gpa > 10 years ago, with my accomplishments since? Thanks for the no hold barred assessment.

I mean, non-trad applicants like yourself are hard to predict. But GPA and LSAT are 90% of the admissions game. If you aren't a URM (black, native American, or certain types of Hispanic, IIRC), you have to be a really special applicant to get in with a GPA below 3.7. Being a successful doctor for several years might make you a special applicant, but I wouldn't count on it.

You could still be in the running for CCN, but they have GPA floors as well. Probably about 3.3 if you kill the LSAT.

So, what's your GPA?

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby score12905 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:28 pm

..
Last edited by score12905 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby MD to JD » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:29 pm

Thank you. My only hesitation asking my friends biglaw spouses is they will think I'm crazy, and I won't get objective advice.

I will follow up with other contacts, though.

It's my understanding the economy is very bad for lawyers, but is it for top lawyers?

I probably have a poor understanding what biglaw is really like, and as you said, would not like the constraints I found myself in.

So, what's biglaw really like?

score12905 wrote:


Not a flame, and I appreciate the honesty. The lost time value of my money is a huge reason why I haven't taken the plunge. The change isn't just about money.

Not sure what your last comment meant about residency outside of a top 3 medical school.


Honestly, before you take the LSAT or go down this road, call up a lawyer friend (or ask around if you don't have one. I'm sure one of your colleagues has a relative/SO who is a lawyer. Worst case scenario, ping your career services at your undergrad or med school or residency or fellowship and they can help put you in touch with someone.) and ask to shadow them for a day. Get a good sense of if this is something you want to do. Or call up your pharma sales rep and ask if you can talk to someone in the GC office about their job and work.

The reason I am skeptical is that if you are concerned with managed care getting into the way that you practice medicine, you don't want to switch to law to find out that you are just as constrained by biglaw partners and firm requirements. It's not that it can't be done (I have a good friend who is an md/jd from HYS but works in govt) but you want to be very sure it's the right choice for you. This is one of the worst economic outlooks for lawyers.

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby MD to JD » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:31 pm

bjsesq wrote:The client-doctor relationship seems important to you. Is working with them directly part of that equation? If it is, run, don't walk, from large law firms. Good luck meeting clients as a junior associate, unless you are in a smaller practice group.



It is in medicine. The lack thereof is a big contributor to my jaded view of medicine. Also, it's not as intellectual as I once held it up to be.

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby JCFindley » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:32 pm

Samara wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
Samara wrote:
MD to JD wrote:Solid advice. Can you tell me more about v5 versus v100? That means top 5 vault firms, right?

What does that mean in the real world in terms of money and opportunities? I thought all biglaw started at 160.

I guess the first step is to man up and take the LSAT. Perhaps I should avoid law school unless I can score HYS?

What's your GPA? If it's below 3.7, you're pretty much out of luck for YSH no matter what you score on the LSAT.


Not necessarily true. Do you know how medians work?

Do you know how GPA floors work?


Actually, according to LSN, there is a 3.55 in this year...

The the glass floor seems to have been broken....

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby BVest » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:32 pm

MD to JD wrote:It's my understanding the economy is very bad for lawyers, but is it for top lawyers?


Yes.

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby score12905 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:33 pm

..
Last edited by score12905 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:34 pm

I'm not convinced you're going to find life any more enjoyable as a top lawyer. I think you need to do way more research.

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Samara
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby Samara » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:34 pm

JCFindley wrote:Actually, according to LSN, there is a 3.55 in this year...

The the glass floor seems to have been broken....

Samara wrote:Do you know how GPA floors work?

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dowu
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby dowu » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:35 pm

Samara wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
Samara wrote:
MD to JD wrote:Solid advice. Can you tell me more about v5 versus v100? That means top 5 vault firms, right?

What does that mean in the real world in terms of money and opportunities? I thought all biglaw started at 160.

I guess the first step is to man up and take the LSAT. Perhaps I should avoid law school unless I can score HYS?

What's your GPA? If it's below 3.7, you're pretty much out of luck for YSH no matter what you score on the LSAT.


Not necessarily true. Do you know how medians work?

Do you know how GPA floors work?


True dat. But you also admitted:

Samara wrote:I mean, non-trad applicants like yourself are hard to predict. But GPA and LSAT are 90% of the admissions game. If you aren't a URM (black, native American, or certain types of Hispanic, IIRC), you have to be a really special applicant to get in with a GPA below 3.7. Being a successful doctor for several years might make you a special applicant, but I wouldn't count on it.


Which actually shows that you agree with me, since it doesnt necessarily hold true for "special applicants", as you said yourself. I think being a doctor for a long time could help bump her (her?) up to the that bracket of people, as long as there are other things about her she has yet to disclose with us such as URM, or what not, that could help her application.

In other words, its not impossible to get in with less than a 3.7, its just... highly unlikely.
Last edited by dowu on Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:35 pm

MD to JD wrote:
bjsesq wrote:The client-doctor relationship seems important to you. Is working with them directly part of that equation? If it is, run, don't walk, from large law firms. Good luck meeting clients as a junior associate, unless you are in a smaller practice group.



It is in medicine. The lack thereof is a big contributor to my jaded view of medicine. Also, it's not as intellectual as I once held it up to be.


Are you prepared to be seperated from your clients on a regular basis as a lawyer?

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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby MD to JD » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:36 pm

dingbat wrote:
MD to JD wrote:
dingbat wrote:I'm in a similar boat and it scares the bejesus out of me, but I'm going anyway


What's your story?

Not on a public message board.

Synopsis: I work in a very niche area of finance and I've achieved all I can possibly achieve here.
I want to transition to the legal side as I believe there's more room for personal growth.
Due to certain aspects I cannot disclose, once I'm out of it, it's almost impossible to get back in.


Exactly my position. Very well said.

Takes alot of courage to follow your dreams/personal growth from our places in life.

Finance blends easier with the law. Medicine seems miles away, and I'm wondering if I'll get dinged by top firms for it. I don't want to go from top of medicine to permanently bottom in law (s***law).

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JCFindley
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby JCFindley » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:37 pm

Regarding GPA / LSAT floors.....

I took the LSAT cold, or with about a weeks worth of looking over some material and it showed in the result.... That said I was below UM numbers on it for my school.....

But they were interested in the whole picture not just the scores..... So while you can get a good average guess from here there is likely not a single person here that can actually give you a good read on it. The only way to know is to try it.....

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BVest
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Re: Currently a Subspecialist MD, Considering Law School

Postby BVest » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:38 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:Which actually shows that you agree with me, since it doesnt necessarily hold true for "special applicants", as you said yourself. I think being a doctor for a long time could help bump her (her?) up to the that bracket of people, as long as there are other things about her she has yet to disclose such as URM, or what not, that could help her application.


Early 30s subspecialist means practicing MD <5 years at the outside for a 19-20 year-old BA/S graduate. Not exactly a long time.




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