Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

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Swimp
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Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby Swimp » Tue May 29, 2012 4:35 pm

**UPDATE BELOW**

Hi all. I started applying to law school right out of undergrad back in 2009, but I lost my nerve and abandoned my LSAC file before submitting anything.

I took the LSAT with effectively no preparation in '09 and got a 166, but I think if I buckle down, I can get into the 99th percentile.

I'd ideally like to stay in NYC, so obviously I'd like to get into NYU or Columbia. Undergrad GPA was 3.45 with fairly unremarkable softs (honors thesis, captain of sports team), and I have two years WE at a high-profile charity in NYC. I'm planning on taking my time with LSAT study and taking the test December of this year, with an eye toward ultimately applying Oct, 2013.

Obviously the most important part of my application at this point is going to be my LSAT score when I retake the test, but I also want to be able to get my applications in as early as possible. That's why I think it's safest to take my time with LSAT prep and delay applying.

Two questions:
1) Does that plan of action seem reasonable, given the time of year and the work I have left to do?

2) Where do you all think I need to get my LSAT score to give me a solid shot at T14 schools? North of 175?

Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Swimp on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue May 29, 2012 4:39 pm

That seems like a good plan. If you're not PTing where you want to be scoring by December though, plan to take the test in Feb or June of 2013. You can still get your apps in by September in that case. It's especially important for you to go into the test being confident since you have already taken it once.

ETA: For lower T14 170+ might be fine for Gtown, Cornell and Michigan? 172+ would get you in for sure I think. You'll need a 175+ to have any shot at CCN.

rosemerry
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby rosemerry » Wed May 30, 2012 2:35 am

rubbish. 3.4 and a 173 and he's practically a lock at NYU if he does ED

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SaintsTheMetal
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby SaintsTheMetal » Wed May 30, 2012 8:17 am

I don't see why you wouldn't take the June 2013 LSAT and apply in September/October instead. The earlier the better.. and 1 year is plenty of prep time..

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Samara
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby Samara » Wed May 30, 2012 8:42 am

Yeah, 173+ should be sufficient for CCN, but shoot for 175+ to be safe. Like the above poster said, an ED to your top choice is a good idea.

And just so you know, early November is still early for submitting your app, so if you think you could be ready by this October, might as well give it a shot.

Swimp
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby Swimp » Wed May 30, 2012 10:08 am

Thanks for the replies.

I was thinking about this last night, and I decided that Samara is probably right. If I'm PTing in the right range by September, waiting until December might even hurt me (burnout, loss of momentum, etc). And, as Mal mentioned, I can always postpone the test if I'm not where I want to be by then.

I would probably go ED at NYU, because my impression is that I'd have a better shot there than at Columbia (because of my undergrad GPA), and I don't want to waste whatever advantage ED gives me by being too optimistic.

And speaking of excess optimism--is it really true that a 173 would be "sufficient" for CCN? What does "sufficient" mean in that context? I've looked at a number of threads here at TLS about splitters, and there seem to be two sets of standards that I haven't really seen interact, and I'm not sure how to account for the discrepancy. On the one hand, many people claim, as most of you have, that 173-174 is fine. That seems to be the majority's opinion. But a minority of users (including Mal) say that you need to absolutely shoot the lights out on the LSAT to compensate for a GPA in my range and, despite that being a minority opinion, the various "predictor" applets passed around on TLS seem to concur.

It goes without saying that I'm going to get as close to a 180 as I possibly can, but in the interests of managing my expectations, does what I've described in the previous paragraph ring bells for anyone, or have I misunderstood something?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed May 30, 2012 12:54 pm

Swimp wrote:And speaking of excess optimism--is it really true that a 173 would be "sufficient" for CCN? What does "sufficient" mean in that context? I've looked at a number of threads here at TLS about splitters, and there seem to be two sets of standards that I haven't really seen interact, and I'm not sure how to account for the discrepancy. On the one hand, many people claim, as most of you have, that 173-174 is fine. That seems to be the majority's opinion. But a minority of users (including Mal) say that you need to absolutely shoot the lights out on the LSAT to compensate for a GPA in my range and, despite that being a minority opinion, the various "predictor" applets passed around on TLS seem to concur.


There is no one score you need for all of CCN because the three schools have different standards. 173 should be sufficient for NYU, but you might pull it off with a 172 or even a 171. Columbia likely requires a 175 (and if you score that high an ED to Columbia isn't wasted). You could score a 180 and get auto-waitlisted at Chicago; they have really focused on GPA in recent years.

By the way I have a very similar GPA and scored a 166 the first time around with about the same amount of prep so I'm pulling for you.

Swimp
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby Swimp » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:20 am

Thanks, Tiago. Obviously I'm not so naive as to think that I can guarantee admission in the T6 with any LSAT score. It's just hard for me to wrap my mind around how a 3.5 with a 173 could be that competitive at NYU. Or at Columbia with a 175, for that matter. There must be hundreds of applicants with similar LSATs and better GPAs who will be applying at the same time. On the other hand, I'm literally just speculating, and ultimately none of this matters anyway until I kill the LSAT, so I should probably refocus my attention on that...

I looked at my UG transcript for the first time in about three years yesterday and it was actually a 3.49, so at least there's that.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:48 am

173 and ED NYU, otherwise, no guarantees at a T6.

Swimp
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby Swimp » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:40 am

Update:

I've been studying over the past couple of months, aiming for the October test. If I score in the right range, I'm going to want to pull the trigger on my applications almost immediately in late Oct/early Nov (I'll get all the non-LSAT stuff queued up in advance, obviously), so I want to get my app strategy figured out.

So, again: 3.5 GPA; 166 LSAT from '09; retaking in Oct.

I started practice testing a few weeks ago after a lot of drilling. So far, my lowest PT has been 176 and my highest is 179. Here are some things I could use some help thinking through (assuming I score in that range in Oct):

1) Would ED to NYU be overkill? It seems like it might be.
2) If so, would ED to Columbia give me a bump? I've looked at the numbers on LSN and I can't discern much of an advantage to ED at Columbia. Is there any conventional wisdom on that?
3) This one might involve too much speculation, but, especially given the drop in apps, do you think I might have a chance at Harvard? If so, is that chance enough of a reason to hold off on ED anywhere?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you all might have.

EDIT: By the way, I'm assuming that in this economy, and taking recent OCI and employment numbers into account, Columbia is preferable to NYU, if only marginally. If anybody feels that I'm drastically misinterpreting that info then please let me know.

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20130312
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby 20130312 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:47 am

Swimp wrote:Update:

I've been studying over the past couple of months, aiming for the October test. If I score in the right range, I'm going to want to pull the trigger on my applications almost immediately in late Oct/early Nov (I'll get all the non-LSAT stuff queued up in advance, obviously), so I want to get my app strategy figured out.

So, again: 3.5 GPA; 166 LSAT from '09; retaking in Oct.

I started practice testing a few weeks ago after a lot of drilling. So far, my lowest PT has been 176 and my highest is 179. Here are some things I could use some help thinking through (assuming I score in that range in Oct):

1) Would ED to NYU be overkill? It seems like it might be.
2) If so, would ED to Columbia give me a bump? I've looked at the numbers on LSN and I can't discern much of an advantage to ED at Columbia. Is there any conventional wisdom on that?
3) This one might involve too much speculation, but, especially given the drop in apps, do you think I might have a chance at Harvard? If so, is that chance enough of a reason to hold off on ED anywhere?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you all might have.


1) If you want to be LOCKED in at one of Columbia or NYU, the best way to do it would be EDing NYU. You are not guaranteed admission with a 3.45/176-179 at NYU by going through regular decision. See LSN and compare ED vs RD. If you want Columbia or NYU but would be happy with money at a lower T14 as well, I think you'd be better off just applying RD everywhere. Depends how important staying in NYC is to you versus taking on debt.
2) In this range, EDing Columbia doesn't seem to provide any discernible bump.
3) Are you a URM or do you have great softs (TFA, veteran, Fulbright)? If not, save the app fee, because Harvard won't look twice.

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2014
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby 2014 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:00 pm

Some have said Harvard will be worth the app fee at your GPA, I tend to disagree. They have hardly touched 3.7x's this year, I have little confidence that next year they will start taking people .3 lower than their typical floor.

If you prefer Columbia to NYU I would ED to Columbia. There is little evidence that there was a boost this year or last, but it absolutely doesn't hurt so why not? Based on this year you are as close to an auto admit as you can be at NYU though it might be off the WL, so I don't think you have to fear being "stuck" with a lower T14 with money.

Definitely blanket the T4-14 for scholarship leverage though.

Swimp
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby Swimp » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:14 pm

Thanks for the responses so far. To clarify a few things:

- Not a URM. No great softs. For the purposes of this thread let's forget Harvard. I'll probably apply for the hell of it, but it's also probably not worth discussing, haha.
- Penn is the only school I would really be "happy" with outside the T6, and it's pretty far behind NYU and CLS (for me). From what I've seen, I'd actually stand a worse chance at Penn than at either NYU or CLS, incidentally.
- I wouldn't mind being locked into NYU, unless I have a good shot at CLS. And I wouldn't mind being locked into CLS, period.

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Smumps
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby Smumps » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:29 pm

Your GPA is the same as mine (and Tiago's, IIRC), so I think our cycles might give you an indication of what to expect. Unfortunately, there's isn't a single score that's going to automatically nab you one (or more) of CCN. FWIW, I nabbed Chicago and Penn with 3.5/171, although the former very late in the game (w/$) and the latter with no money. It's going to depend on what the school needs.

But, speculating is fun. My guess is 170 will be enough to ED Penn, with 171+ safe for RD. 173 to safely ED NYU. 175 to safely ED Columbia (and with that GPA, not sure it's safe). Chicago I wouldn't even begin to guess. Seems like the ED people had really strong GPAs.

edit: Saw your comment about Penn. I don't think that's true at all. Maybe at a certain LSAT you get into YP range, but otherwise, you will have an easier time with Penn than CCN.

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smaug_
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby smaug_ » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:36 pm

I'm going to run counter to what many in this thread are saying. Although I agree with the score ranges they are giving, I would not ED if I were you. I think that if you break the 175 mark, you should be sufficiently confident that you'll get one of CCNP. If you get two or more, you would be in a much better place with regards to financial aid and the like. If you look at the splitter cycles from last year, you'll see that people ended up with wildly different aid amounts from peer schools.

I guess I'd agree that you're not guaranteed anything unless you ED (with a 175 or better) but the possible financial aid difference outweighs the small amount of security you gain.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:59 pm

ED to Columbia if you hit 175. Otherwise, ED NYU

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smaug_
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Re: Planning to apply 10/2013. Does this make sense?

Postby smaug_ » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:14 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:ED to Columbia if you hit 175. Otherwise, ED NYU


JMJ, do you think you would have gotten money from NYU if you had applied ED?




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