Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

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ank91901
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Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby ank91901 » Wed May 09, 2012 11:29 am

I'm a URM, a Junior Poli Sci Major at a state school. Really wanting to go to law school after working in the "real world" for a few years. I'm also hoping to get into my schools Masters program in Poli Sci.
I am the first in my family to go to college and unfortunately was too naive about how College's functioned on their grading. It was my fault but I ended up having to drop some classes my freshman year and got a couple F's.
I enlisted in the military (USMC Reserves) in spring of 09 and withdrew from the classes that I was taking at the time. Came back home from training in time only to enroll at community college in the spring of 2010. I only took 3 classes (11 hours). About April of that semester I was informed that I would be on a working party that would mobilize before the rest of my company for the "Two-Weeks in the summer" that reserves do. I was to mobilize at the beginning of May. So I get a USERRA statement from my Chain of Command to give to my school and my employer letting them know I was on military duty and needed to be excused from work and withdrawn from school during such and such dates. Registrar's office said okay, thank you for your service- blah friggin blah and I was on my way. This was in April when I turned in my USERRA statements to both employer and school.
Last minute change of plans from my chain of command so then I was not going on the "working party." I thought "well it was pointless to have been withdrawn from school?!" But oh well, I'm used to being screwed by the military so no big deal... I wasn't expecting to get screwed by the community college though! They didn't withdraw me since it was past the WITHDRAWAL DATE! I didn't know about that until after I got back from the "two weeks in the summer drill," which, guess what, was past the school's appealing time limit!!!! And now they refuse to change my F's to W's even though I gave them the USERRA statement.
In all I have 7 F's because the incompetent Community college still refuses to correct their [illegal] mistake...
Soap box to the side now, will those SEVEN F's cause my application to be crumpled up and thrown out the window if I apply to any law schools? Or do I still have a chance?
I've computed my LSDAS GPA and even if I get all A's my senior I can only come up with 3.0, even though all my coursework comes out to a 3.84 if computed the traditional way since I've made up all of my F's and W's.
What do you all think?

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bk1
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby bk1 » Wed May 09, 2012 11:31 am

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com

A sub3 is not a death sentence for law school like it might for other grad programs (at least not at all law schools). Assuming you get a decent enough LSAT, there are plenty of good/decent schools you can get into (NU/UVA/GULC/GW/WUSTL/UIUC/etc).

That being said, there is a night and day difference between a 3.0 and a sub3 so you should do everything in your power to get a 3.0+.

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Band A Long
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby Band A Long » Wed May 09, 2012 11:35 am

ank91901 wrote:And now they refuse to change my F's to W's even though I gave them the USERRA statement.In all I have 7 F's because the incompetent Community college still refuses to correct their [illegal] mistake...

Not to be redundant here, but have you sat down and spoken with someone higher up in the college? A dean, perhaps? Not to be insulting but sometimes people get repeated "No's" from the registrar/middle management types but when someone higher up actually hears the situation they can make things happen very quickly. It wouldn't seem like someone in that position would want someone that served their country screwed by some grade errors. Again maybe you already did this and if so sorry to be repetitive.

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mattviphky
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby mattviphky » Wed May 09, 2012 11:42 am

where did the other 4 F's come from?

ank91901
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby ank91901 » Wed May 09, 2012 11:51 am

Band A Long wrote:
ank91901 wrote:And now they refuse to change my F's to W's even though I gave them the USERRA statement.In all I have 7 F's because the incompetent Community college still refuses to correct their [illegal] mistake...

Not to be redundant here, but have you sat down and spoken with someone higher up in the college? A dean, perhaps? Not to be insulting but sometimes people get repeated "No's" from the registrar/middle management types but when someone higher up actually hears the situation they can make things happen very quickly. It wouldn't seem like someone in that position would want someone that served their country screwed by some grade errors. Again maybe you already did this and if so sorry to be repetitive.


The CC has one dean and I think that since I started attending back in 07 we've had 3 different ones in that office. Matter of fact I think the one there now is an Interim. I still take classes there since it's right down the road from my house.
I have tried before but I constantly get a secretary who takes my issue and writes it down and then never hear back from her or the dean. I will keep trying though. I have a feeling I'll be up there everyday this summer. I might picket in front of his office.
Seriously though, it's a relief to hear that I'm not already walking the green mile. I'm going to try to fluff my GPA as much as possible.
Has anyone been in this pickle before? Misery loves company! :oops:

ank91901
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby ank91901 » Wed May 09, 2012 11:59 am

mattviphky wrote:where did the other 4 F's come from?

My freshman year. Like I said, I had absolutely no idea how grading in college worked since I was the first in my family to attend college or even graduate high school. Those four F's are my fault and I own up to them; I've also made them up and got A's on all of them.
Seriously there's only 2 C's on my transcript and the rest is mostly A's and some B's. No D's. So it's not like I'm a struggling student. I was but I've fixed myself, now I just need to get my transcript fixed or get advice for when application time comes.

law2015
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby law2015 » Wed May 09, 2012 12:03 pm

I had terrible grades my first year, my gpa was in the 1's. For the last 100 or so credits I received all A's to bring it up to respectability. Anyway, i think the final gpa is the only one that matters. FWIW, i was accepted to a number of T14 schools. So if you can get a 170 or better lsat score + get A's your senior year + URM status + military service= a number of t14 acceptances. Good luck.

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Br3v
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby Br3v » Wed May 09, 2012 12:30 pm

ank91901 wrote:
mattviphky wrote:where did the other 4 F's come from?

My freshman year. Like I said, I had absolutely no idea how grading in college worked since I was the first in my family to attend college or even graduate high school. Those four F's are my fault and I own up to them; I've also made them up and got A's on all of them.
Seriously there's only 2 C's on my transcript and the rest is mostly A's and some B's. No D's. So it's not like I'm a struggling student. I was but I've fixed myself, now I just need to get my transcript fixed or get advice for when application time comes.



Your saying you didn't know F's were bad?
You say you own up to them, don't qualify it.

bp shinners
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby bp shinners » Wed May 09, 2012 12:31 pm

ank91901 wrote:I have tried before but I constantly get a secretary who takes my issue and writes it down and then never hear back from her or the dean. I will keep trying though. I have a feeling I'll be up there everyday this summer. I might picket in front of his office.


Don't picket in front of his office. While this is an unfair situation, that will make you look bad.

Instead, go to the office and insist on seeing the Dean. If the Secretary won't let you through, wait in the waiting room until he leaves. He can't stay in his office forever. When he gets out, ask him if he has time to discuss an issue related to your military service. If he doesn't, that's when you can start to get creative (i.e. ask him how he thinks the CC will look in the news when they find out that they're screwing someone who is serving his country). If you have to get creative, however, that decreases his willingness to want to help you. If it ends up at that level, I'd expect to transfer to another school, because that school is no longer going to be friendly for you.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed May 09, 2012 12:32 pm

ank91901 wrote:
mattviphky wrote:where did the other 4 F's come from?

My freshman year. Like I said, I had absolutely no idea how grading in college worked since I was the first in my family to attend college or even graduate high school. Those four F's are my fault and I own up to them; I've also made them up and got A's on all of them.
Seriously there's only 2 C's on my transcript and the rest is mostly A's and some B's. No D's. So it's not like I'm a struggling student. I was but I've fixed myself, now I just need to get my transcript fixed or get advice for when application time comes.
I understand immaturity, but not this 'I had no idea how grading worked' thing. You had grades in high school, right?

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Band A Long
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby Band A Long » Wed May 09, 2012 12:46 pm

bp shinners wrote:
ank91901 wrote:I have tried before but I constantly get a secretary who takes my issue and writes it down and then never hear back from her or the dean. I will keep trying though. I have a feeling I'll be up there everyday this summer. I might picket in front of his office.


Don't picket in front of his office. While this is an unfair situation, that will make you look bad.

Instead, go to the office and insist on seeing the Dean. If the Secretary won't let you through, wait in the waiting room until he leaves.

TCR. I'm glad I asked that question. You are at least owed a meeting with the Dean of your own school.

ank91901
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby ank91901 » Wed May 09, 2012 1:51 pm

I'm not even going to acknowledge the condescending idiots. If you're gonna ask stupid questions, like "did you have grades in hs?," and be judgmental you better have a JD of your own or be in charge of my application process.

When I said I was going to picket that wasn't literal. LOL!
I just meant I'm going to be going up there until I get it fixed. But thanks, I know I really need to stay on their butts about this. If I have to I'll get in touch with the JAG.
I guess I just really wanted to see whether if my situation would break my chances.
Thanks for the helpful information.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed May 09, 2012 1:59 pm

ank91901 wrote:I'm not even going to acknowledge the condescending idiots. If you're gonna ask stupid questions, like "did you have grades in hs?," and be judgmental you better have a JD of your own or be in charge of my application process.

When I said I was going to picket that wasn't literal. LOL!
I just meant I'm going to be going up there until I get it fixed. But thanks, I know I really need to stay on their butts about this. If I have to I'll get in touch with the JAG.
I guess I just really wanted to see whether if my situation would break my chances.
Thanks for the helpful information.
How, exactly, is it a stupid question to wonder how someone could have experienced four years of A-F grades in high school and not be able to comprehend that the similar A-F grades in college might mean something?

Being the first in your family to go to college could explain not being able to handle living away from home and attending class, or studying on your own time, or whatever. Not having no idea how grading worked.

ank91901
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby ank91901 » Wed May 09, 2012 2:11 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
ank91901 wrote:I'm not even going to acknowledge the condescending idiots. If you're gonna ask stupid questions, like "did you have grades in hs?," and be judgmental you better have a JD of your own or be in charge of my application process.

When I said I was going to picket that wasn't literal. LOL!
I just meant I'm going to be going up there until I get it fixed. But thanks, I know I really need to stay on their butts about this. If I have to I'll get in touch with the JAG.
I guess I just really wanted to see whether if my situation would break my chances.
Thanks for the helpful information.
How, exactly, is it a stupid question to wonder how someone could have experienced four years of A-F grades in high school and not be able to comprehend that the similar A-F grades in college might mean something?


That wasn't your original question. If you'd asked that to begin with I would have answered on the assumption that you had valid input that would help me out. But now I see that you're interest isn't to help or provide any response to what I asked for and instead you're only interested in posting for posting's sake.

ank91901
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby ank91901 » Wed May 09, 2012 2:12 pm

Being the first in your family to go to college could explain not being able to handle living away from home and attending class, or studying on your own time, or whatever. Not having no idea how grading worked.


This I will acknowledge only because it goes with what I originally posted.
I've worked since I was 14. After HS I still worked. Throughout HS if I had something due that conflicted with work I would approach the teacher and tell them my situation and they would allow for me to either turn it in late or make it up throughout the course of the semester.
I tried that same approach on college coursework, guess what... they didn't care. Matter of fact one of my profs said, "I have 45 other students in this same classroom, and 5 other classes just like it. Do you think I want to spend my christmas grading work that was turned in late because everybody has a life outside of college algebra?"
After I got so far behind with classwork, because of work, I quit going to school... here's where the statement "I didn't know how grading worked in college" comes into play. I assumed that since I quit going to school, I would be automatically withdrawn and all that would be lost would be the money I paid to go to school. Again, being the first to go to school in my family, nobody knew to tell me otherwise.
Ta-da!
Ignorance isn't bliss. But I've made up for my mistakes and for my ignorance.
That's how you go from HS to CC and not know how the grading policies will differ.

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Mike12188
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby Mike12188 » Wed May 09, 2012 3:04 pm

ank91901 wrote:
Being the first in your family to go to college could explain not being able to handle living away from home and attending class, or studying on your own time, or whatever. Not having no idea how grading worked.


This I will acknowledge only because it goes with what I originally posted.
I've worked since I was 14. After HS I still worked. Throughout HS if I had something due that conflicted with work I would approach the teacher and tell them my situation and they would allow for me to either turn it in late or make it up throughout the course of the semester.
I tried that same approach on college coursework, guess what... they didn't care. Matter of fact one of my profs said, "I have 45 other students in this same classroom, and 5 other classes just like it. Do you think I want to spend my christmas grading work that was turned in late because everybody has a life outside of college algebra?"
After I got so far behind with classwork, because of work, I quit going to school... here's where the statement "I didn't know how grading worked in college" comes into play. I assumed that since I quit going to school, I would be automatically withdrawn and all that would be lost would be the money I paid to go to school. Again, being the first to go to school in my family, nobody knew to tell me otherwise.
Ta-da!
Ignorance isn't bliss. But I've made up for my mistakes and for my ignorance.
That's how you go from HS to CC and not know how the grading policies will differ.


The prof. was right you weren't a special snowflake. Not sure why you thought you could just stop showing up and not get an F lol. Please don't write this in an addendum if you do write one. I didn't write one for my shitty first semester because the only excuse was that I was immature and didn't care about school. Seems you have the same reason. FWIW 90% of the people who attend CCs have jobs.

TMC116
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby TMC116 » Wed May 09, 2012 7:05 pm

What URM are you?

Also, are you sure you calculated your LSAC gpa correctly? It's hard to imagine that an applicant w 7+ F's can finish w a 3.0

admisionquestion
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby admisionquestion » Wed May 09, 2012 7:13 pm

While I think your best option is to get an appointment with a dean, do keep in mind that you do have the option of seeking legal advice...

It is worth the consultation fee etc. A better GPA = a better school/bigger scholly and that is worth $$$$$

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hyakku
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby hyakku » Thu May 10, 2012 5:23 am

Mike12188 wrote:The prof. was right you weren't a special snowflake. Not sure why you thought you could just stop showing up and not get an F lol. Please don't write this in an addendum if you do write one. I didn't write one for my shitty first semester because the only excuse was that I was immature and didn't care about school. Seems you have the same reason. FWIW 90% of the people who attend CCs have jobs.


What the hell? It clearly states that it was ignorance and accidental on his part. If it wasn't, he wouldn't have thought that in the first place, and at no point has he suggested writing an addendum. Normally I don't white knight on the internet but this response is not only douchey, but completely pointless as everything you said the OP already acknowledges.

OP: 3 - 4 Fs from freshmen year probably won't lock you out at the lower T-14 if you can kill your LSAT (170+) and get that 3.0, although it will still be challenging, URM or not. 7 might be difficult to overcome though. I'm not sure but it sounds like you have a pretty solid case to appeal for those last Fs. Just to give you hope, my GPA was around a 3.0 (higher but below a 3.3) and I was accepted into two T-14s with $$, waitlisted and withdrew from two others, and only got denied from Berkeley (expected for my GPA) and Chi. You're going to have to get apps in early though, get help with statements and be willing to ride WLs. Good luck man, and I hope you've genuinely grown from your experiences.

ank91901
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby ank91901 » Thu May 10, 2012 8:38 pm

Thanks hyakku. At least there's a handful of people on here who actually post to help others rather than be douchebags.

I know I'm facing an uphill battle but after reading post after post, some that sort of resembled my situation, I figured I'd post my own question to see the level of screwed I am IF I can't get the F's removed. Hopefully I will get them taken care of though.
Many thanks to those who were helpful.
Good luck to you all.

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Br3v
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby Br3v » Fri May 11, 2012 12:18 am

ank91901 wrote:Thanks hyakku. At least there's a handful of people on here who actually post to help others rather than be douchebags.

I know I'm facing an uphill battle but after reading post after post, some that sort of resembled my situation, I figured I'd post my own question to see the level of screwed I am IF I can't get the F's removed. Hopefully I will get them taken care of though.
Many thanks to those who were helpful.
Good luck to you all.


What do you mean get Fs removed? You have them. Honestly despite such a short thread I didn't read it all but there is no magic erase for transcript grades

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Band A Long
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby Band A Long » Fri May 11, 2012 12:41 am

Br3v wrote:What do you mean get Fs removed? You have them. Honestly despite such a short thread I didn't read it all but there is no magic erase for transcript grades

He had a military withdrawal from the semester that the registrar OK'd but then later decided was 'after their withdrawal date.' He was away during this time and wasn't aware until after the CCs 'appeal deadline.' School administration seems evasive.

ank91901
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Re: Is my transcript too nasty for law school?

Postby ank91901 » Thu May 17, 2012 10:23 am

Apparently I did have a "magic erase for transcript grades."
Went up there and once more explained my situation. They said they had lost both my USERRA/ESGR Notice to Employer (in this case school), and my Withdrawal form. (WTF?)
So they needed a copy of my orders or at least a copy of the Notice. 5 hours later, after pissing off my old 1st Sgt. and the Admin Chief at my old unit, I got a letter from them to take to the good ol' CC.
CC said they would have to appeal it as if it were "Appeal Grade" situation... not sure what that meant but I went ahead and said that the 1st Sgt said that if I had any problems to call the JAG.
All of a sudden there was a change of tone and an hour later I had those 3 F's (2 were FOUR hour courses and one was THREE hours) turned "magically" into W's.
I still don't have a pretty transcript but it certainly changes my prospects for the future. Now I really have to hammer down on the LSAT study guides and find some fluff courses to take. I'm considering a double major in PoliSci and History. Does a double have any bearing on Admissions?

admisionquestion wrote:While I think your best option is to get an appointment with a dean, do keep in mind that you do have the option of seeking legal advice...

It is worth the consultation fee etc. A better GPA = a better school/bigger scholly and that is worth $$$$$


After reading this it really clicked in my head that it was something I needed to push hard. Thanks admissionquestion.
Good luck to you all.




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