Am I naive?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
rijed
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:54 pm

Am I naive?

Postby rijed » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:57 pm

When I started looking at law schools to apply to, I really wanted IU-Bloomington because I am a resident of IN and get instate tuition. Because I am prior military, my GI Bill covers 100% of my tuition (plus a decent living allowance and book stipend). I already used 2 years of my GI Bill in undergrad, so I will have 2 years left and have to pay for my third year of law school. Basically, all three years will cost around 27,000ish, which I can pay without having to take out any loans. Because I want to be near family, I really want to stay in Indiana. Though, like most, I want to make good money, I would be happy with a comfortable salary of $50,000-60,000ish. Of course I would rather make closer to $80,000 or more, but I'm saying I could be pretty happy with $50,000.

Based on what I just said, I think IU-Bloomington is a great choice for me. No debt, in the region I want to practice.... However, TLS wisdom often argues T14 or don't go. Am I being naive? With my goals and situation is IU a good fit for me?

User avatar
TommyK
Posts: 1309
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby TommyK » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:00 pm

rijed wrote:When I started looking at law schools to apply to, I really wanted IU-Bloomington because I am a resident of IN and get instate tuition. Because I am prior military, my GI Bill covers 100% of my tuition (plus a decent living allowance and book stipend). I already used 2 years of my GI Bill in undergrad, so I will have 2 years left and have to pay for my third year of law school. Basically, all three years will cost around 27,000ish, which I can pay without having to take out any loans. Because I want to be near family, I really want to stay in Indiana. Though, like most, I want to make good money, I would be happy with a comfortable salary of $50,000-60,000ish. Of course I would rather make closer to $80,000 or more, but I'm saying I could be pretty happy with $50,000.

Based on what I just said, I think IU-Bloomington is a great choice for me. No debt, in the region I want to practice.... However, TLS wisdom often argues T14 or don't go. Am I being naive? With my goals and situation is IU a good fit for me?


nahh dude, you're not naive. You have realistic expectations of what you can make. You're going to graduate with little debt. Sounds like a plan to me.

FWIW, TLS wisdom isn't as cut and dry as T14 or Nothing. It's usually - T14 or school where you want to practice on the cheap. You're money.

User avatar
moonman157
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby moonman157 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:02 pm

rijed wrote:When I started looking at law schools to apply to, I really wanted IU-Bloomington because I am a resident of IN and get instate tuition. Because I am prior military, my GI Bill covers 100% of my tuition (plus a decent living allowance and book stipend). I already used 2 years of my GI Bill in undergrad, so I will have 2 years left and have to pay for my third year of law school. Basically, all three years will cost around 27,000ish, which I can pay without having to take out any loans. Because I want to be near family, I really want to stay in Indiana. Though, like most, I want to make good money, I would be happy with a comfortable salary of $50,000-60,000ish. Of course I would rather make closer to $80,000 or more, but I'm saying I could be pretty happy with $50,000.

Based on what I just said, I think IU-Bloomington is a great choice for me. No debt, in the region I want to practice.... However, TLS wisdom often argues T14 or don't go. Am I being naive? With my goals and situation is IU a good fit for me?


This is the ideal T14 alternative. Best of luck!

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:04 pm

IU-B's job placement is significantly lower than some of their T30 peers. However, given your ties, the extremely low debt you would incur, and (I would assume) your desire to stay in Indiana or the nearby Midwestern states, I think it makes a lot of sense for you. Realize that your odds of working for a firm that pays 80k+ aren't that good (see: c/o 2010 job data, only about 15% of the class worked in firms of 50 or more attorneys).

If you are cool working in Indiana and not landing biglaw, and you are looking to minimize your debt, I think IU-B would be a fine choice.

User avatar
lifestooquick
Posts: 1200
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:13 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby lifestooquick » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:06 pm

Sounds like you have a great plan! Just as a side note, if you want another option to apply to that isn't far - military vets get in-state tuition at Ohio State :)

rijed
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:54 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby rijed » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:12 pm

Ok, thanks so much. I thought I had a good plan, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't just convincing myself.

lifestooquick wrote:Sounds like you have a great plan! Just as a side note, if you want another option to apply to that isn't far - military vets get in-state tuition at Ohio State :)


Also, I did apply and was accepted to OSU. However, since I really want to be in IN and was already accepted/getting instate here, I figured this was better for me. The only other option I really thought about was ND, but since it is private I would have to take out loans (or spend a lot of my savings) and didn't think it was worth it.

Thanks again for the comments.

User avatar
lifestooquick
Posts: 1200
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:13 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby lifestooquick » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:14 pm

rijed wrote:Ok, thanks so much. I thought I had a good plan, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't just convincing myself.

lifestooquick wrote:Sounds like you have a great plan! Just as a side note, if you want another option to apply to that isn't far - military vets get in-state tuition at Ohio State :)


Also, I did apply and was accepted to OSU. However, since I really want to be in IN and was already accepted/getting instate here, I figured this was better for me. The only other option I really thought about was ND, but since it is private I would have to take out loans (or spend a lot of my savings) and didn't think it was worth it.

Thanks again for the comments.

Didn't realize you'd already applied! Yup, IUB sounds PERFECT for you :) Enjoy!

User avatar
nygrrrl
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: Am I naive?

Postby nygrrrl » Tue May 01, 2012 8:53 am

rijed wrote:Ok, thanks so much. I thought I had a good plan, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't just convincing myself.

lifestooquick wrote:Sounds like you have a great plan! Just as a side note, if you want another option to apply to that isn't far - military vets get in-state tuition at Ohio State :)


Also, I did apply and was accepted to OSU. However, since I really want to be in IN and was already accepted/getting instate here, I figured this was better for me. The only other option I really thought about was ND, but since it is private I would have to take out loans (or spend a lot of my savings) and didn't think it was worth it.

Thanks again for the comments.

Sounds to me like you've thought everything through clearly and rationally. Congrats on your acceptances - good work!

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue May 01, 2012 1:06 pm

To repeat what has already been shared in this thread, Indiana-Bloomington is a great choice in your situation. Nothing wrong with Ohio State, but you'll be making professional contacts & building professional relationships with current & future Indiana lawyers & judges over the next three years. Congratulations !

P.S. You're entering a profession that is, in large part, based on credibility & trust. For a future Indiana lawyer, IUB is the best place to start building relationships based on these traits.

P.P.S. Also, check on whether or not you can take second and/or third year courses at Indiana-Indianapolis. If so, then consider doing an internship/externship with an Indiana Supreme Court Justice during the fall while taking a course or two at night. Typically, internships/externships are less competitive during the normal academic year.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue May 01, 2012 1:15 pm

To repeat what has already been shared in this thread, Indiana-Bloomington is a great choice in your situation. Nothing wrong with Ohio State, but you'll be making professional contacts & building professional relationships with current & future Indiana lawyers & judges over the next three years. Congratulations !

P.S. You're entering a profession that is, in large part, based on credibility & trust. For a future Indiana lawyer, IUB is the best place to start building relationships based on these traits.

P.P.S. Also, check on whether or not you can take second and/or third year courses at Indiana-Indianapolis. If so, then consider doing an internship/externship with an Indiana Supreme Court Justice or a Federal judge or magistrate during the fall while taking a course or two at night. Typically, internships/externships are less competitive during the normal academic year.

rijed
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:54 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby rijed » Tue May 01, 2012 2:25 pm

CanadianWolf wrote: Also, check on whether or not you can take second and/or third year courses at Indiana-Indianapolis. If so, then consider doing an internship/externship with an Indiana Supreme Court Justice or a Federal judge or magistrate during the fall while taking a course or two at night. Typically, internships/externships are less competitive during the normal academic year


Great advice. I'll see what I can do.


Thanks everyone for the feedback. I wanted some outside perspectives from people who knew at least a little about this and couldn't care less where I went (so they would be objective).

Here is a separate question if someone wants to give any additional advice. I was waitlisted at Notre Dame. South Bend (where ND is located) would be my ideal location since my family lives in the area. However, (assuming I get off the waitlist) it would cost about twice as much to attend ND. I have a good savings so I could probably still pay it wish cash, but I may have to take out an additional 10-20k in loans (depending on a lot of outside variables like does my wife get a job...). Would it be worth paying twice as much (from around 25k at IU to around 50k at ND) to actually attend law school in the exact city I want to live? Would you suggest just sticking with IU even if ND does take me off of the waitlist? Thanks again for any advice.

User avatar
icecold3000
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:50 am

Re: Am I naive?

Postby icecold3000 » Wed May 02, 2012 9:42 am

Something to think about:

Your GI Bill may pay for more than you think. If you have two years (24 months) on your GI Bill, and a JD takes 27 months to complete (school year is typically 9 months x 3), then you will only have to pay out of pocket for 3 months. The GI bill doesn't count the summers, unless of course you take summer classes.

sgt101st
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:52 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby sgt101st » Wed May 02, 2012 10:15 am

Are you Post-9/11 or Montgomery? If you're 3+ years active duty you qualify for the Yellow Ribbon Program, which typically kicks in a nice chunk of change. It looks like ND's is only $4,000/year (matched with VA for $8,000/year). That means your Post-9/11, if you qualify for YRP, would get you $25,500/year for Notre Dame.

Tuition cost for 2012 is about $46,000, so ND would costs you about $61,500 total.

rijed
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:54 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby rijed » Wed May 02, 2012 12:01 pm

Thank you again to everyone who has posted and helped me with my decisions. I really do appreciate the advice.

icecold3000 wrote: If you have two years (24 months) on your GI Bill


When I said two years I was talking about 2 academic years. I actually have 19 months and 26 days left. Therefore, I should have 2 academic years plus some change, but I'm not counting the change and just trying overestimate.

sgt101st wrote:Are you Post-9/11 or Montgomery? If you're 3+ years active duty you qualify for the Yellow Ribbon Program, which typically kicks in a nice chunk of change. It looks like ND's is only $4,000/year (matched with VA for $8,000/year). That means your Post-9/11, if you qualify for YRP, would get you $25,500/year for Notre Dame.

Tuition cost for 2012 is about $46,000, so ND would costs you about $61,500 total.


I am Post-9/11, but I only have 2 academic years left. I did the math and ND would actually cost me around $86,940, which I would not be willing to pay. However, if they would only give me a $7,000 a year scholarship (the lowest amount I have said I would still go there for) that would bring the price down to 65,940, which I think I would be willing to pay. I might still be able to pay this in cash if my wife gets a job (she is a school teacher and with state budget cuts it is hard to predict if she will, but hopefully she could get something). If she does, then I could still graduate with no debt, but still have spent much more of my savings. With all of this in mind, my target city/area will actually be South Bend, IN. It is basically where my family lives and where I want to end up no matter what law school I go to. I already know that 1) they may not take me off of the waitlist 2) they will probably not give me any scholarship. However, let's assume that both happened for my question.

My question is, do you think it would be worth spending 65,940 (worst case scenario that I would still accept) to go to ND rather than closer to 27,000 at IU? With my goal of working in South Bend, is the extra 38k worth it?

Again, thank you for all of the advice and help. I really do listen to this advice.

User avatar
TommyK
Posts: 1309
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby TommyK » Wed May 02, 2012 1:44 pm

$38k more? No way. I certainly wouldn't with your setup and career goals. That's a good chunk of change, man. That's a helluva' down payment on a home... two cars... or several ridiculous vacations.

rijed
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:54 pm

Re: Am I naive?

Postby rijed » Thu May 03, 2012 7:03 pm

TommyK wrote:$38k more? No way. I certainly wouldn't with your setup and career goals. That's a good chunk of change, man. That's a helluva' down payment on a home... two cars... or several ridiculous vacations.


Good stuff. Thank you.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nathjf, Yahoo [Bot] and 9 guests