"It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

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PDaddy
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby PDaddy » Tue May 01, 2012 1:12 am

Paraflam wrote:I was talking to this girl in my class who's also taking the LSAT in June about how she's studying, and asked how many PTs she's taken so far. She laughed and said she hasn't even started studying yet, and asked how many I've taken. I said four, and she goes, "God, what are you trying to get into like Northwestern or something?"


Lol. Really?! Lol. Four huh? Northwestern huh? Lol. If you aren't consistently above 170, you are way under-doing it dude. If anyone thinks just four practice-test will prepare anyone not named "Will Hunting" or "Mike Ross" for a score high enough to get them into Northwestern, they are sorely misguided. Not that it can't be done, but even the smartest and most accomplished applicants take a minimum of 15-30 fully timed practice exams, and then break them apart and re-do them later. They study just about every available test...and those are people who are already good at the test and have 3.7-4.0 UGPA's. Read more LSAT prep threads and you will find out just how insane everyone here is when it comes to that test.

Note: Of course, not all students need 170+ to get into elite schools, but regardless of UGPA or soft factors, that's what you need to shoot for when preparing just to be safe.

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Ludo!
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby Ludo! » Tue May 01, 2012 1:20 am

PDaddy wrote:
Paraflam wrote:I was talking to this girl in my class who's also taking the LSAT in June about how she's studying, and asked how many PTs she's taken so far. She laughed and said she hasn't even started studying yet, and asked how many I've taken. I said four, and she goes, "God, what are you trying to get into like Northwestern or something?"


Lol. Really?! Lol. Four huh? Northwestern huh? Lol. If you aren't consistently above 170, you are way under-doing it dude. If anyone thinks just four practice-test will prepare anyone not named "Will Hunting" or "Mike Ross" for a score high enough to get them into Northwestern, they are sorely misguided. Not that it can't be done, but even the smartest and most accomplished applicants take a minimum of 15-30 fully timed practice exams, and then break them apart and re-do them later. They study just about every available test...and those are people who are already good at the test and have 3.7-4.0 UGPA's. Read more LSAT prep threads and you will find out just how insane everyone here is when it comes to that test.

Note: Of course, not all students need 170+ to get into elite schools, but regardless of UGPA or soft factors, that's what you need to shoot for when preparing just to be safe.


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Paraflam
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby Paraflam » Tue May 01, 2012 1:55 am

PDaddy wrote:
Paraflam wrote:I was talking to this girl in my class who's also taking the LSAT in June about how she's studying, and asked how many PTs she's taken so far. She laughed and said she hasn't even started studying yet, and asked how many I've taken. I said four, and she goes, "God, what are you trying to get into like Northwestern or something?"


Lol. Really?! Lol. Four huh? Northwestern huh? Lol. If you aren't consistently above 170, you are way under-doing it dude. If anyone thinks just four practice-test will prepare anyone not named "Will Hunting" or "Mike Ross" for a score high enough to get them into Northwestern, they are sorely misguided. Not that it can't be done, but even the smartest and most accomplished applicants take a minimum of 15-30 fully timed practice exams, and then break them apart and re-do them later. They study just about every available test...and those are people who are already good at the test and have 3.7-4.0 UGPA's. Read more LSAT prep threads and you will find out just how insane everyone here is when it comes to that test.

Note: Of course, not all students need 170+ to get into elite schools, but regardless of UGPA or soft factors, that's what you need to shoot for when preparing just to be safe.


Your post is retarded for so many reasons. Here are a few:

1. How could you have extracted ANYTHING about my knowledge of how to study for the LSAT from that post? Or how many LSAT prep threads I've read? I've been a member here for a full year longer than you, I'm pretty familiar with the atmosphere. Also, I'm fully aware of how to study for the LSAT. I'm in the middle of a Velocity class and have been PTing in the mid/high 160s so far. I don't need (nor did I ask for) your LSAT prep advice, but thanks anyway.

2. Claiming that people who are already good at the test have 3.7-4.0 UGPAs might be the most illogical statement I've ever read on TLS. I have a 3.8, so does this make me "already good" at the LSAT? What if it's a 3.8 in Communication vs. a 3.8 in Engineering? Saying that your GPA reflects or is in any way related to your natural ability on the LSAT is preposterous.

3. I explicitly said I'm not trying to get into Northwestern. I said the best school I can get into, which won't include NU regardless of my LSAT score because I won't have any WE when I apply.

4. In how many different contexts are you going to reference Mike Ross?

5. Yeah, you missed the point.
Last edited by Paraflam on Tue May 01, 2012 2:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

AffordablePrep
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby AffordablePrep » Tue May 01, 2012 1:57 am

i think people use it as an excuse to not work.

i met a lawyer over the weekend who went to a lower ranked school but makes a few hundred grand a year and is relatively young, because of bonuses.

but he is really good at making connections and has skills that are more rare than just scoring well on the lsat.

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realhero
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby realhero » Wed May 02, 2012 6:31 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:i think people use it as an excuse to not work.

i met a lawyer over the weekend who went to a lower ranked school but makes a few hundred grand a year and is relatively young, because of bonuses.

but he is really good at making connections and has skills that are more rare than just scoring well on the lsat.


Yeah, connections are key. When you don't have them you think life is so unfair, but then when you get them, you're like HOLLA this is awesome.

Sirius
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby Sirius » Wed May 02, 2012 6:37 pm

Connections + Scholarship at T30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> T14 Sticker Every motherfuckin time

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chem
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby chem » Wed May 02, 2012 7:14 pm

Sirius wrote:Connections + Scholarship at T30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> T14 Sticker Every motherfuckin time


Siriusly?

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boredatwork
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby boredatwork » Wed May 02, 2012 7:32 pm

I think it is probably a combination of what you know, who you know, and where you go.

Geneva
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby Geneva » Tue May 08, 2012 11:40 am

AffordablePrep wrote:i think people use it as an excuse to not work.

i met a lawyer over the weekend who went to a lower ranked school but makes a few hundred grand a year and is relatively young, because of bonuses.

but he is really good at making connections and has skills that are more rare than just scoring well on the lsat.


a few hundred grand and "relatively" young? working where, doing what?

i think above a certain threshold of intelligence, interpersonal skills>>>additional iq points.

EdgarWinter
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby EdgarWinter » Wed May 09, 2012 1:44 pm

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Last edited by EdgarWinter on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AffordablePrep
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby AffordablePrep » Wed May 09, 2012 2:02 pm

Geneva wrote:
AffordablePrep wrote:i think people use it as an excuse to not work.

i met a lawyer over the weekend who went to a lower ranked school but makes a few hundred grand a year and is relatively young, because of bonuses.

but he is really good at making connections and has skills that are more rare than just scoring well on the lsat.


a few hundred grand and "relatively" young? working where, doing what?

i think above a certain threshold of intelligence, interpersonal skills>>>additional iq points.

i meant around 35. he works for a v-15 firm, but makes most of his money from bringing in clients.

both are important. i was told by someone it's 75 percent intelligence, 25 percent interpersonal skills while most fields are vice versa.

at the end of the day they're both going to be important.
Last edited by AffordablePrep on Wed May 09, 2012 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sundance95
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby sundance95 » Wed May 09, 2012 2:04 pm

EdgarWinter wrote:
Gail wrote:that's stupid. where you go has a direct influence on who you know. you go to law school for the alumni network as much as you go for anything else. this is stupid.


I think there is a lot of truth to this. The friends you make in law school and UG won't matter much during the start of your future career (since they, like you, will just be starting out), but I'd much rather be 40 years old and have old college/law school buddies from Princeton UG and T6 law school than I would from UofGettingLaid and TTTville.

Yeah, who wants to be associated with those dirty proles, amirite?

09042014
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby 09042014 » Wed May 09, 2012 2:18 pm

I'd imagine that most law jobs would be easier to get with connection than with a good degree. The problem is most law jobs blow horse cock. Sure Slip and Fall Fred, P.C. is going to hire his niece before he hires a Duke grad, but that job sucks.

Also, most people have no connections.

And it seems like you need really fucking tight connections to get big law from connections. I don't think just being a son or daughter of a partner even cuts it. Probably have to be a rainmaker or something. Or the close relative of a client who can actually move their book if they get pissed off.

But I think networking is vastly more important than school prestige once you get out of big law and big fed.

AffordablePrep
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby AffordablePrep » Wed May 09, 2012 2:22 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'd imagine that most law jobs would be easier to get with connection than with a good degree. The problem is most law jobs blow horse cock. Sure Slip and Fall Fred, P.C. is going to hire his niece before he hires a Duke grad, but that job sucks.

Also, most people have no connections.

And it seems like you need really fucking tight connections to get big law from connections. I don't think just being a son or daughter of a partner even cuts it. Probably have to be a rainmaker or something. Or the close relative of a client who can actually move their book if they get pissed off.

But I think networking is vastly more important than school prestige once you get out of big law and big fed.

my perspective was always most jobs suck.

somebody i once tutored told his son to motivate him, "would you rather work in construction lifting stuff all day with co-workers who smoke like a chimney or sit behind a desk in a suit."

the funny thing is i'd much rather do the former if it paid more.

09042014
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby 09042014 » Wed May 09, 2012 2:26 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'd imagine that most law jobs would be easier to get with connection than with a good degree. The problem is most law jobs blow horse cock. Sure Slip and Fall Fred, P.C. is going to hire his niece before he hires a Duke grad, but that job sucks.

Also, most people have no connections.

And it seems like you need really fucking tight connections to get big law from connections. I don't think just being a son or daughter of a partner even cuts it. Probably have to be a rainmaker or something. Or the close relative of a client who can actually move their book if they get pissed off.

But I think networking is vastly more important than school prestige once you get out of big law and big fed.

my perspective was always most jobs suck.

somebody i once tutored told his son to motivate him, "would you rather work in construction lifting stuff all day with co-workers who smoke like a chimney or sit behind a desk in a suit."

the funny thing is i'd much rather do the former if it paid more.


All law jobs suck. But some suck and then don't pay you well. Going into debt to get that kind of sucky job is just stupid. So it probably shouldn't be your Plan A.

bingbang1025
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby bingbang1025 » Wed May 09, 2012 3:02 pm

When I read threads like this, it makes me feel a lot better about what I’m getting myself into. I consider myself pretty well-researched when it comes to law school, the legal job market and what to expect graduating from a T25 with about $80k-100k debt. Family friends keep warning me about going to law school but whenever I ask what schools their case studies went to, it’s always a TT or TTT, or a smart kid at a T30 who just shit the bed grades-wise.
I think THESE pre-law types and the POS THIEF TTT’s who take their money are the ones who are stinking up the field’s reputation. I don’t care who you are, if you go to a T50, understand what you’re getting yourself into, manage expectations and work hard/network you’ll find SOMETHING. It might not be biglaw but you’ll find something meaningful, eventually.
This is not to say that hiring isn’t tough for even bright kids in the T14, but I have plenty of friends at top 10 schools who I know as a fact didn’t do shit as far as hustling, networking, etc and just expected that their degrees would land them jobs. These were the lazy smart kids who had mid-3 GPA’s and scores in the 170’s.
Point: if you’re a hustler, persistent, positive and know what you’re getting yourself into, you can be successful. It just gets harder the worse the school gets.

bingbang1025
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby bingbang1025 » Wed May 09, 2012 3:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'd imagine that most law jobs would be easier to get with connection than with a good degree. The problem is most law jobs blow horse cock. Sure Slip and Fall Fred, P.C. is going to hire his niece before he hires a Duke grad, but that job sucks.

Also, most people have no connections.

And it seems like you need really fucking tight connections to get big law from connections. I don't think just being a son or daughter of a partner even cuts it. Probably have to be a rainmaker or something. Or the close relative of a client who can actually move their book if they get pissed off.

But I think networking is vastly more important than school prestige once you get out of big law and big fed.


Really useful insight...props

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sundance95
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby sundance95 » Wed May 09, 2012 3:05 pm

bingbang1025 wrote:This is not to say that hiring isn’t tough for even bright kids in the T14, but I have plenty of friends at top 10 schools who I know as a fact didn’t do shit as far as hustling, networking, etc and just expected that their degrees would land them jobs. These were the lazy smart kids who had mid-3 GPA’s and scores in the 170’s.

Wanted to push back against this. In my experience, a lack or hustle/expecting to be being handed a job correlates much more highly with a lack of real-world work experience (i.e., K-JD) than any admission metric.

bingbang1025
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Re: "It's about who you know, not where you go to school"

Postby bingbang1025 » Wed May 09, 2012 4:20 pm

sundance95 wrote:
bingbang1025 wrote:This is not to say that hiring isn’t tough for even bright kids in the T14, but I have plenty of friends at top 10 schools who I know as a fact didn’t do shit as far as hustling, networking, etc and just expected that their degrees would land them jobs. These were the lazy smart kids who had mid-3 GPA’s and scores in the 170’s.

Wanted to push back against this. In my experience, a lack or hustle/expecting to be being handed a job correlates much more highly with a lack of real-world work experience (i.e., K-JD) than any admission metric.


Not saying a lack of hustling is correlated to high numbers/entitlement that comes with those metrics. I agree with you, people who go straight from undergrad and have never really fought for a competitive full-time position definitely fit the bill.

I'm taking a gamble and hoping that 2 years of serious work experience in business/consulting will overcome not being at a top top school.




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