How bad is this going to hurt?

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cj_stripe
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How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby cj_stripe » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:28 am

I am looking, and starting to apply for law school next year. However, my freshmen year, I was found to be in violation of the residence hall alcohol policy. It is a minor violation that is placed on my educational record. No criminal charges.

How bad is this?

Also, on the application, do I state under the criminal charges section that I had this violation? I was told that I need to release this information on my own, and that law schools would not be able to see it without my disclosure.

Thanks.

rwhyAn
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:09 pm

Re: How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby rwhyAn » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:33 am

It shouldn't be a problem. Only volunteer it if specifically asked, but I believe that most applications were only concerned with criminal behavior. Since it's not a crime, don't list it in any criminal charges section.

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cinephile
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Re: How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby cinephile » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:36 am

rwhyAn wrote:It shouldn't be a problem. Only volunteer it if specifically asked, but I believe that most applications were only concerned with criminal behavior. Since it's not a crime, don't list it in any criminal charges section.


Really? I applied in 2010, but all of mine asked about violations and included university violations. Why not list it? It's better to be safe than sorry, and it won't make any difference.

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stillwater
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Re: How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby stillwater » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:38 am

cj_stripe wrote:I am looking, and starting to apply for law school next year. However, my freshmen year, I was found to be in violation of the residence hall alcohol policy. It is a minor violation that is placed on my educational record. No criminal charges.

How bad is this?

Also, on the application, do I state under the criminal charges section that I had this violation? I was told that I need to release this information on my own, and that law schools would not be able to see it without my disclosure.

Thanks.


The morality police will bar you from any and all gainful employment, not limited to the legal field. But, no, seriously, disclose this as asked on your applications and this will have no effect on your chances.

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Guchster
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Re: How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby Guchster » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:42 am

rwhyAn wrote:It shouldn't be a problem. Only volunteer it if specifically asked, but I believe that most applications were only concerned with criminal behavior. Since it's not a crime, don't list it in any criminal charges section.


This is terrible advice.


Disclose fucking everything. Where people get in trouble on the C&F of the bar is lying and "selectively" disclosing stoopid shit.

Doing dumb stupid (even illegal stupid) crap doesn't really matter. It's the lying and misrepresenting part of it that gets people permabanned. I know people that had multiple DUIS, someone with an assault charge, and someone asked to leave for cheating. All of who are barred in NY or CA. You just say you learned from these mistakes... blah blah... show reform.

Put this in the "disciplinary university action" part of your apps.

rwhyAn
Posts: 294
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Re: How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby rwhyAn » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:46 pm

Guchster wrote:
rwhyAn wrote:It shouldn't be a problem. Only volunteer it if specifically asked, but I believe that most applications were only concerned with criminal behavior. Since it's not a crime, don't list it in any criminal charges section.


This is terrible advice.


Disclose fucking everything. Where people get in trouble on the C&F of the bar is lying and "selectively" disclosing stoopid shit.

Doing dumb stupid (even illegal stupid) crap doesn't really matter. It's the lying and misrepresenting part of it that gets people permabanned. I know people that had multiple DUIS, someone with an assault charge, and someone asked to leave for cheating. All of who are barred in NY or CA. You just say you learned from these mistakes... blah blah... show reform.

Put this in the "disciplinary university action" part of your apps.


I think you mistook what I was saying. Yes, if they ask about university disciplinary action, you should definitely include it. Maybe I just didn't remember that on any of my apps, as I never had any university problems. However, I know on some of the apps they requested that you include all motor vehicle violations where the fine was $200 or greater. Now why would you include a $50 seatbelt ticket if they didn't ask for that? On other apps, they asked for you to include all infractions; in this case, you would definitely include it. I'm not advocating that anyone lie or attempt to mislead, as it will lead to unfavorable consequences down the line, but one need not give any additional information than what is asked. If you were asked if you had ever been arrested and you haven't, you wouldn't reply, "Well, there are times where I could have been." Ok?

Randomnumbers
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Re: How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby Randomnumbers » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:20 pm

Don't be stupid. Don't try to be smarter than the system. It's a numbers game - the university you are applying to doesn't care at all that you had a minor alcohol violation in college. You have absolutely nothing to lose by disclosing. rwhyAn is giving very stupid advice. Nobody will be impressed down the line by the argument "Well, it didn't specifically ask for that...".

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Guchster
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Re: How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby Guchster » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:36 pm

rwhyAn wrote:
Guchster wrote:
I think you mistook what I was saying. Yes, if they ask about university disciplinary action, you should definitely include it. Maybe I just didn't remember that on any of my apps, as I never had any university problems. However, I know on some of the apps they requested that you include all motor vehicle violations where the fine was $200 or greater. Now why would you include a $50 seatbelt ticket if they didn't ask for that? On other apps, they asked for you to include all infractions; in this case, you would definitely include it. I'm not advocating that anyone lie or attempt to mislead, as it will lead to unfavorable consequences down the line, but one need not give any additional information than what is asked. If you were asked if you had ever been arrested and you haven't, you wouldn't reply, "Well, there are times where I could have been." Ok?


I see what you're saying. When I applied, I remember I had to disclose the stuff I did when I went through my "it's fun to do bad things stage" in College (mind you, these bad things weren't criminal). I'm not sure what schools you guys are applying to, but the ones I did required me to disclose disciplinary stuff at school. I remember it being in the 'have you ever been formally disciplined for academic or behavioral reasons." Getting written up by your college counts as such, I would think.

I agree though that you shouldn't put things in there that are completely irrelevant and not asked about--but when in doubt, disclose There won't be any drawbacks for it, but there will be consequences for not disclosing.

wearefoxsports
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Re: How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby wearefoxsports » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:46 pm

cj_stripe wrote:I am looking, and starting to apply for law school next year. However, my freshmen year, I was found to be in violation of the residence hall alcohol policy. It is a minor violation that is placed on my educational record. No criminal charges.

How bad is this?

Also, on the application, do I state under the criminal charges section that I had this violation? I was told that I need to release this information on my own, and that law schools would not be able to see it without my disclosure.

Thanks.


Generally speaking, you should always disclose when in doubt, and I think in the discipline / criminal charge section is fine. However, if there was no record ever created, then there is nothing to "disclose". Whether to "disclose" something that was never in the record is completely up to you (even though I think you should). My school does not create a record for the first-time alcohol related offense in the dorm unless one later gets into trouble again (alcohol related or not). If I were you, I would call student judiciary affairs to ask for my student record.

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LSAT Blog
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Re: How bad is this going to hurt?

Postby LSAT Blog » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:09 pm

wearefoxsports wrote:
cj_stripe wrote:I am looking, and starting to apply for law school next year. However, my freshmen year, I was found to be in violation of the residence hall alcohol policy. It is a minor violation that is placed on my educational record. No criminal charges.

How bad is this?

Also, on the application, do I state under the criminal charges section that I had this violation? I was told that I need to release this information on my own, and that law schools would not be able to see it without my disclosure.

Thanks.


Generally speaking, you should always disclose when in doubt, and I think in the discipline / criminal charge section is fine. However, if there was no record ever created, then there is nothing to "disclose". Whether to "disclose" something that was never in the record is completely up to you (even though I think you should). My school does not create a record for the first-time alcohol related offense in the dorm unless one later gets into trouble again (alcohol related or not). If I were you, I would call student judiciary affairs to ask for my student record.


+1

Not all violations are criminal. Schools generally require a dean's certification that covers university disciplinary issues to make sure that you're in good standing and don't have a record. Yes, it'd be wise to contact student judiciary affairs, your academic advisor, etc. for guidance as to whether there's a record of it - OP, you make it sound as if it *is* on your record.

Law schools won't care that you had alcohol in your dorm. Disclosing it won't hurt your chances of admission. In fact, it shows that you're thorough, conscientious, and above-board.

Don't risk trouble later on over this - disclose, disclose, disclose.




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