Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

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Geon
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby Geon » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:23 am

Fuuuu123 wrote:Soph in highschool. My goal is to go to columbia for grad law school hopefully on a full ride. Nexy year i'm taking US history AP, Pyschology AP, AP language and comp, french 3 honors, algebra 2 honors and chemistry. Should I over the summer take some math classes, currently math and science are my worst 2 subjects and gov,history,languages and law interests me greatly and sometimes I study statutes.

If you guys were in my position what would you do, done differently. I have a LSAT app just on free time to pop a few questions. Amidoinitrite?


Your university will not matter, in fact the shittier and the cheaper the better, because if it is a shit school it probably easier to get a high grade, thats all that counts. Go somewhere that you can have fun get hammered for 4 years and get good grades with little effort.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby ThreeRivers » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:14 am

While it is true that all that matters is gpa / LSAT, I wouldn't encourage op to put all his eggs in 1 basket. Look the op isn't even old enough to drive, I wouldn't be encouraging him / her to do a shitty major / school. What if they then end up sucking on the LSAT? Have a backup plan

O and go enjoy life

mushybrain
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby mushybrain » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:27 pm

I took exactly one math class in undergrad, and it was a remedial class because it was the lowest I was allowed to take.

That said, work your ass off in high school while you aren't old enough to go do things worth doing and proceed from there.

Geon
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby Geon » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:39 pm

ThreeRivers wrote:While it is true that all that matters is gpa / LSAT, I wouldn't encourage op to put all his eggs in 1 basket. Look the op isn't even old enough to drive, I wouldn't be encouraging him / her to do a shitty major / school. What if they then end up sucking on the LSAT? Have a backup plan

O and go enjoy life


Well then they better start studying now :D

JK

The way schools are now, there is little reason to go to a hard school. What is his alternative. Go to MIT get a degree in computer engineering - despite being poor in math- and can't get a job because his job is in india or in silicon valley run by some h1-b visa guy? His best bet is to pay as little as possible for his UG degree because UG are worth very little nowadays, so go to a bad school who will give you full scholly, score high grades and get into a good grad schol and then you might have a shot of landing a good job.

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jrthor10
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby jrthor10 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:15 pm

Geon wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:While it is true that all that matters is gpa / LSAT, I wouldn't encourage op to put all his eggs in 1 basket. Look the op isn't even old enough to drive, I wouldn't be encouraging him / her to do a shitty major / school. What if they then end up sucking on the LSAT? Have a backup plan

O and go enjoy life


Well then they better start studying now :D

JK

The way schools are now, there is little reason to go to a hard school. What is his alternative. Go to MIT get a degree in computer engineering - despite being poor in math- and can't get a job because his job is in india or in silicon valley run by some h1-b visa guy? His best bet is to pay as little as possible for his UG degree because UG are worth very little nowadays, so go to a bad school who will give you full scholly, score high grades and get into a good grad schol and then you might have a shot of landing a good job.


This is poor advice in my opinion. There are still compelling reasons to go to a top school, including the ability to network with other smart, hardworking individuals. Moreover, you'll likely be pushed harder to be more successful when surrounded by ivy league-caliber students than you would be at ASU or a similar performing school.

This is a common theme on this board--that undergrad prestige doesn't matter for purposes of law school. It may not for admissions, but I have definitely heard of it mattering when it comes to hiring. Look at the partners at firms across the V100. I guarantee you'll find more from Cornell than Arizona State. Is this reflective of overall ability level too? Sure. But I have no doubt that if someone on the hiring committee went to Dartmouth they will choose the ivy league graduate over the San Jose State graduate every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

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hyakku
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby hyakku » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:14 pm

zozin wrote:Fuck you guys for taking the OP seriously. :lol:


I really can't believe it took so long to get to this response in this thread.

duckmoney
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby duckmoney » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:17 pm

jrthor10 wrote:
Geon wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:While it is true that all that matters is gpa / LSAT, I wouldn't encourage op to put all his eggs in 1 basket. Look the op isn't even old enough to drive, I wouldn't be encouraging him / her to do a shitty major / school. What if they then end up sucking on the LSAT? Have a backup plan

O and go enjoy life


Well then they better start studying now :D

JK

The way schools are now, there is little reason to go to a hard school. What is his alternative. Go to MIT get a degree in computer engineering - despite being poor in math- and can't get a job because his job is in india or in silicon valley run by some h1-b visa guy? His best bet is to pay as little as possible for his UG degree because UG are worth very little nowadays, so go to a bad school who will give you full scholly, score high grades and get into a good grad schol and then you might have a shot of landing a good job.


This is poor advice in my opinion. There are still compelling reasons to go to a top school, including the ability to network with other smart, hardworking individuals. Moreover, you'll likely be pushed harder to be more successful when surrounded by ivy league-caliber students than you would be at ASU or a similar performing school.

This is a common theme on this board--that undergrad prestige doesn't matter for purposes of law school. It may not for admissions, but I have definitely heard of it mattering when it comes to hiring. Look at the partners at firms across the V100. I guarantee you'll find more from Cornell than Arizona State. Is this reflective of overall ability level too? Sure. But I have no doubt that if someone on the hiring committee went to Dartmouth they will choose the ivy league graduate over the San Jose State graduate every day of the week and twice on Sunday.


Is it better to go to an ivy league school than a state school, all else equal? Of course it is! Is an ivy league school worth $200,000 of student debt more than a full ride scholarship to a state school? Absolutely not.

Is it worth even $10 or $20 or $50k more? I would say no as well, but some might have legitimate arguments otherwise.

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drmguy
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby drmguy » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:27 pm

A top school gives you more exit options, but will provide very little if any help getting into law school.

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laxbrah420
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby laxbrah420 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:27 pm

good schools have hotter chicks, nicer campuses, and better professors to make you smart n shit

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Br3v
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby Br3v » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:30 pm

jrthor10 wrote:
Geon wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:While it is true that all that matters is gpa / LSAT, I wouldn't encourage op to put all his eggs in 1 basket. Look the op isn't even old enough to drive, I wouldn't be encouraging him / her to do a shitty major / school. What if they then end up sucking on the LSAT? Have a backup plan

O and go enjoy life


Well then they better start studying now :D

JK

The way schools are now, there is little reason to go to a hard school. What is his alternative. Go to MIT get a degree in computer engineering - despite being poor in math- and can't get a job because his job is in india or in silicon valley run by some h1-b visa guy? His best bet is to pay as little as possible for his UG degree because UG are worth very little nowadays, so go to a bad school who will give you full scholly, score high grades and get into a good grad schol and then you might have a shot of landing a good job.


This is poor advice in my opinion. There are still compelling reasons to go to a top school, including the ability to network with other smart, hardworking individuals. Moreover, you'll likely be pushed harder to be more successful when surrounded by ivy league-caliber students than you would be at ASU or a similar performing school.

This is a common theme on this board--that undergrad prestige doesn't matter for purposes of law school. It may not for admissions, but I have definitely heard of it mattering when it comes to hiring. Look at the partners at firms across the V100. I guarantee you'll find more from Cornell than Arizona State. Is this reflective of overall ability level too? Sure. But I have no doubt that if someone on the hiring committee went to Dartmouth they will choose the ivy league graduate over the San Jose State graduate every day of the week and twice on Sunday.


Kind of agree.

OP where you go to college will not matter for law school admissions, but I think the point that surrounding yourself with highly motivated students will encourage you to do the same is valid. If you can afford (as in scholarship that would equate a better school to say a state flagship, or parents willing to help in addition to LS) then I would chose to attend a top school for UG.

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kwais
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby kwais » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:33 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:good schools have hotter chicks, nicer campuses, and better professors to make you smart n shit


b and c yes, a is extremely questionable. Oh and OP, go to a great UG because its great. Do NOT pick your UG based on law school application process. That is no way to live your life. If you can't make the grades at a top UG, then you didn't want a top law school bad enough.

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby DaftAndDirect » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:35 pm

The advice in this thread is a glaring indictment of the LS admissions process.

bobbyh1919
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby bobbyh1919 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:10 pm

While there is something commendable about thinking this far ahead, you're really doing yourself a disservice. Getting good grades is extremely important and a high GPA will do wonders for you in the LS admissions process, but when you say things like "I will get straight A's," I mean c'mon man, you're what 16 years old? You should be thinking about something other than how you can maximize your chances of being the founding member of the Colombia Law Class of 2021.

Go to whatever undergrad you can enjoy while also saving money, go enjoy it, and let the grades come. If you open an LSAT book before 2017, you're doing it wrong.

Geon
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby Geon » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:22 pm

jrthor10 wrote:
Geon wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:While it is true that all that matters is gpa / LSAT, I wouldn't encourage op to put all his eggs in 1 basket. Look the op isn't even old enough to drive, I wouldn't be encouraging him / her to do a shitty major / school. What if they then end up sucking on the LSAT? Have a backup plan

O and go enjoy life


Well then they better start studying now :D

JK

The way schools are now, there is little reason to go to a hard school. What is his alternative. Go to MIT get a degree in computer engineering - despite being poor in math- and can't get a job because his job is in india or in silicon valley run by some h1-b visa guy? His best bet is to pay as little as possible for his UG degree because UG are worth very little nowadays, so go to a bad school who will give you full scholly, score high grades and get into a good grad schol and then you might have a shot of landing a good job.


This is poor advice in my opinion. There are still compelling reasons to go to a top school, including the ability to network with other smart, hardworking individuals. Moreover, you'll likely be pushed harder to be more successful when surrounded by ivy league-caliber students than you would be at ASU or a similar performing school.

This is a common theme on this board--that undergrad prestige doesn't matter for purposes of law school. It may not for admissions, but I have definitely heard of it mattering when it comes to hiring. Look at the partners at firms across the V100. I guarantee you'll find more from Cornell than Arizona State. Is this reflective of overall ability level too? Sure. But I have no doubt that if someone on the hiring committee went to Dartmouth they will choose the ivy league graduate over the San Jose State graduate every day of the week and twice on Sunday.


Well we will probably agree to disagree. I went to an elite or top school
1. "Pushed harder to compete" is code word is you will work harder to get the same damn grade. Yes you will work your butt off to get an A- or B+ or even B- and then an employer may not even care about your grades, the prestiege of your school will often be irrelevant to them, in fact many HR people will resent you and not want to hire you for they fear you will replace them long term. It cuts both ways
2. You are going to network with other unemployed students? LOL. If you are going to network with alumni, you don't need to go to an elite school to network with elite school graduates. You want to network with CEO, go join a golf course or polo club and be an outgoing loud mouth.
3. You will be more motivated to get As when competing with idiots at cow college U than when competing with hard working people who study all night.
4. I guarantee you there are more people from crappy undergrad school in V 100 as partners than from hard courses and backgrounds like engineering, physics, etc. This is because you already have a slim chance of making into a t-14 from a hard prestigeous school with low grades.

dooood
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby dooood » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:52 pm

Geon wrote:Well we will probably agree to disagree. I went to an elite or top school
1. "Pushed harder to compete" is code word is you will work harder to get the same damn grade. Yes you will work your butt off to get an A- or B+ or even B- and then an employer may not even care about your grades, the prestiege of your school will often be irrelevant to them, in fact many HR people will resent you and not want to hire you for they fear you will replace them long term. It cuts both ways
2. You are going to network with other unemployed students? LOL. If you are going to network with alumni, you don't need to go to an elite school to network with elite school graduates. You want to network with CEO, go join a golf course or polo club and be an outgoing loud mouth.
3. You will be more motivated to get As when competing with idiots at cow college U than when competing with hard working people who study all night.
4. I guarantee you there are more people from crappy undergrad school in V 100 as partners than from hard courses and backgrounds like engineering, physics, etc. This is because you already have a slim chance of making into a t-14 from a hard prestigeous school with low grades.

I'm gonna go ahead and say this is the dumbest collection of words ever written on this site.
1. From the part of this that is comprehensible, it seems you're advising against going to an elite undergrad because some employers might not care about your grades/UG, and because some psycho HR person will be jealous of you so they'll throw your resume in the trash. I have no words.
2. Top law firms and other desirable employers hire students from elite UG/LS's because the average student there is smarter than the average student at Backwater State. And because those working at these top employers went to those same schools, and so did the people who hired them, and so on. These are the people with whom you want to network.
2a. "Go join a polo club" haha
3. You're telling OP what motivates him now? Most people I know (myself included) are far more motivated when around other smart people.
4. WHAT? Have you ever looked at the website of a top NY law firm? You've never seen so many Ivy undergrads.

OP, there's something to be said for going to a lesser UG if you absolutely have your heart set on law school, as you'll probably have an easier time making top grades. But you're 15. The most formative (and fun) years of your life lie between now and when you'd be going to law school. A lot can, and will, change. Do yourself a favor and go to the best UG you can get into without breaking the bank.

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angrybird
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby angrybird » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:55 pm

the most absurd assumption here is that it's more difficult to get straight A's at a "prestigious" school

dooood
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby dooood » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:59 pm

angrybird wrote:the most absurd assumption here is that it's more difficult to get straight A's at a "prestigious" school

That's also true. Some of the grade inflation at top UGs is nuts

DubStepFever
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby DubStepFever » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:46 pm

you should go to harvard for college because they take like 99 percent of harvard graduates into all the real good law schools.

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angrybird
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby angrybird » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:47 pm

DubStepFever wrote:you should go to harvard for college because they take like 99 percent of harvard graduates into all the real good law schools.

shit, he's escaped quarantine. lockdown the mountain, nobody comes in or out.

Geon
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby Geon » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:20 am

dooood wrote:
Geon wrote:Well we will probably agree to disagree. I went to an elite or top school
1. "Pushed harder to compete" is code word is you will work harder to get the same damn grade. Yes you will work your butt off to get an A- or B+ or even B- and then an employer may not even care about your grades, the prestiege of your school will often be irrelevant to them, in fact many HR people will resent you and not want to hire you for they fear you will replace them long term. It cuts both ways
2. You are going to network with other unemployed students? LOL. If you are going to network with alumni, you don't need to go to an elite school to network with elite school graduates. You want to network with CEO, go join a golf course or polo club and be an outgoing loud mouth.
3. You will be more motivated to get As when competing with idiots at cow college U than when competing with hard working people who study all night.
4. I guarantee you there are more people from crappy undergrad school in V 100 as partners than from hard courses and backgrounds like engineering, physics, etc. This is because you already have a slim chance of making into a t-14 from a hard prestigeous school with low grades.

I'm gonna go ahead and say this is the dumbest collection of words ever written on this site.
1. From the part of this that is comprehensible, it seems you're advising against going to an elite undergrad because some employers might not care about your grades/UG, and because some psycho HR person will be jealous of you so they'll throw your resume in the trash. I have no words.
2. Top law firms and other desirable employers hire students from elite UG/LS's because the average student there is smarter than the average student at Backwater State. And because those working at these top employers went to those same schools, and so did the people who hired them, and so on. These are the people with whom you want to network.
2a. "Go join a polo club" haha
3. You're telling OP what motivates him now? Most people I know (myself included) are far more motivated when around other smart people.
4. WHAT? Have you ever looked at the website of a top NY law firm? You've never seen so many Ivy undergrads.

OP, there's something to be said for going to a lesser UG if you absolutely have your heart set on law school, as you'll probably have an easier time making top grades. But you're 15. The most formative (and fun) years of your life lie between now and when you'd be going to law school. A lot can, and will, change. Do yourself a favor and go to the best UG you can get into without breaking the bank.


Your mixing UG and LS. 2 different kettles. There is another thread pointing out how it seems there are more non top 14 lawyers as partners. Employers outside of law will not care what school you went to, they will rank you by grades for the most part.

dooood
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby dooood » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:46 pm

Of course grades are the major concern during OCI. But, again, search for undergrads of some law firms: you'll be astounded at the amount of prestigious UGs you find. Most people like to help fellow alums, both out of a sense of loyalty and to remind them of their salad days; you'll have many more networking opportunities coming from a top UG than coming from a lesser school.* What I mainly took exception to were your statements that:

1) It's no better to network with grads of elite UGs than grads of "cow college U," as you put it.
2) Being around stupid people motivates someone more than being around smart people.
3) Having gone to an elite UG will work against you because psycho jealous HR people will resent you.
4) Lawyers at top firms come far more often from lesser UGs.

Remember, this is all in the context of OP (who is probably a flame) being 15. If you can do so within financial reason, it is 99 times out of 100 the right call to go to the best UG you can get into.

* The main exception being if you're from a secondary market: here, it could be better to go the most highly regarded local school.

Geon
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby Geon » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:51 am

dooood wrote:Of course grades are the major concern during OCI. But, again, search for undergrads of some law firms: you'll be astounded at the amount of prestigious UGs you find. Most people like to help fellow alums, both out of a sense of loyalty and to remind them of their salad days; you'll have many more networking opportunities coming from a top UG than coming from a lesser school.* What I mainly took exception to were your statements that:

1) It's no better to network with grads of elite UGs than grads of "cow college U," as you put it.
2) Being around stupid people motivates someone more than being around smart people.
3) Having gone to an elite UG will work against you because psycho jealous HR people will resent you.
4) Lawyers at top firms come far more often from lesser UGs.

Remember, this is all in the context of OP (who is probably a flame) being 15. If you can do so within financial reason, it is 99 times out of 100 the right call to go to the best UG you can get into.

* The main exception being if you're from a secondary market: here, it could be better to go the most highly regarded local school.

Again you are shifting b/w LS and UG. 2 different cases.
1. It does depend on your degree, but the fact I was looking was that he wants to go to law school. Unless US elite schools inflate grade (the opposite of Canadian ones except mcgill) then there is a no benefit in going to a harder/more prestigious school.
2. Yes being around stupid people is motivating because you do little work and get A+
3. This is 100% true unless the HR person comes from your background. HR is full of young 20-30 y/o women. Especially in business -probably doesn't apply to law school b/c of its elitist nature. However, many HR staff are worried and don't want to hire people smarter than they because it will make them look bad. True story, I had a friend who was hired by one of these types at a major business firm and the other workers resented him for working "too hard"
4. This is not for certain but many people seem to think so. I mean when you consider that top 5-10% of class make big law even in some way low tier schools, it is logical that there are probably more non t-14 people in top firms than t-14. Ie. Harvard might place 250 people in top firms and the other 250 in clerkships and great jobs. But the bottom 50 of top 100 schools might place 5% of roughly there 400 average class size in big law = 400*50*5% = 1000

So just by numbers it seems the sheer volume of lower tier school grads can outnumber top 14.

EdgarWinter
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Re: Still in Highschool. Harden up my math skills?

Postby EdgarWinter » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:06 pm

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