10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

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TTTLS
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10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby TTTLS » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:39 am

I'd like to dedicate this post to MTal.

http://www.businessinsider.com/real-sto ... 012-4?op=1

Edit: And to top it off, I, like MTal, may have just posted this in the wrong forum.

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hung jury
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby hung jury » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:00 am

TTTLS wrote:I'd like to dedicate this post to MTal.

http://www.businessinsider.com/real-sto ... 012-4?op=1

Edit: And to top it off, I, like MTal, may have just posted this in the wrong forum.


Not a single bigretail job in the lot.

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FryBreadPower
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby FryBreadPower » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:12 am

"Yaron Deskalo went to law school with no intention of ever becoming a lawyer"

WHY?

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Mike12188
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby Mike12188 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:12 am

So one of them went to a good law school and then didn't look for another firm job after being let go from a big firm? What is the point of this.

flcath
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:15 am

I post on TLS because I share with you all the greatest shame and failure of my entire life: going to law school.

At least I don't have kids; I can't imagine the disgrace of having your children know that you're a lawyer.

shoeshine
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby shoeshine » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:20 am

flcath wrote:I post on TLS because I share with you all the greatest shame and failure of my entire life: going to law school.

At least I don't have kids; I can't imagine the disgrace of having your children know that you're a lawyer.

You should drop out and start posting here: studentdoctor.net
Last edited by shoeshine on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

flcath
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:21 am

shoeshine wrote:
flcath wrote:I post on TLS because I share with you all the greatest shame and failure of my entire life: going to law school.

At least I don't have kids; I can't imagine the disgrace of having your children know that you're a lawyer.

You should drop out and start posting here: [url]studentdoctor.net[/url]

I wish.

redbullvodka
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby redbullvodka » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:27 am

Mike12188 wrote:So one of them went to a good law school and then didn't look for another firm job after being let go from a big firm? What is the point of this.


That's all I got from this. And lol GW as a "highly-ranked school".

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romothesavior
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:34 am

Mike12188 wrote:So one of them went to a good law school and then didn't look for another firm job after being let go from a big firm? What is the point of this.

Kinda my thoughts as well. Started off strong with some interesting cautionary tales, and then it just became sort of irrelevant. Cool, some guy didn't want to be a lawyer and is working at ESPN. Some chick quit her law job to fundraise. Okay great, but what does this tell me about the market? This piece just fell off the tracks.

Also, the heading "Not even going to a highly ranked school guarantees a big firm job" or whatever was lulzy enough, but then when I saw the school was GWU, I realized that whoever wrote this was clueless. You mean not everyone at GWU gets a biglaw job? TELL ME MORE!

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RedBirds2011
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby RedBirds2011 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:37 am

redbullvodka wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:So one of them went to a good law school and then didn't look for another firm job after being let go from a big firm? What is the point of this.


That's all I got from this. And lol GW as a "highly-ranked school".


The last two are the most idiotic as examples. One was working in the state attorneys office and the other had a biglaw job and both just quit because they didn't feel "fulfilled." How does this have anything to do with the struggles grads have to find jobs? They both voluntarily left legit legal jobs. This is a dumb article.

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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:40 am

RedBirds2011 wrote:
redbullvodka wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:So one of them went to a good law school and then didn't look for another firm job after being let go from a big firm? What is the point of this.


That's all I got from this. And lol GW as a "highly-ranked school".


The last two are the most idiotic as examples. One was working in the state attorneys office and the other had a biglaw job and both just quit because they didn't feel "fulfilled." How does this have anything to do with the struggles grads have to find jobs? They both voluntarily left legit legal jobs. This is a dumb article.

I think the point is to emphasize how TTT the legal industry is, which is the clear impression left by the article overall. You can just smell it.

Bear in mind: this is news to some people.

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Mike12188
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby Mike12188 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:22 am

flcath wrote:I think the point is to emphasize how TTT the legal industry is, which is the clear impression left by the article overall. You can just smell it.

Bear in mind: this is news to some people.


As opposed to what? I mean doesn't pretty much everything go into the shitter with the economy. I guess the only way I can see it being TTT is if you compare it to going to med school, but then again med students work way harder and are slaves for 40k a year for so many years after 7-8 years of extremely hard coursework . Where else can you walk into a starting gig at $160k? especially for someone with a useless undergrad degree.

P.S. I'm really not trying to argue or stick up for the legal industry, I just don't get people who commit to shit like this and not expect anything bad to happen, especially at these TTTs

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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:27 am

Mike12188 wrote:
flcath wrote:I think the point is to emphasize how TTT the legal industry is, which is the clear impression left by the article overall. You can just smell it.

Bear in mind: this is news to some people.


As opposed to what? I mean doesn't pretty much everything go into the shitter with the economy. I guess the only way I can see it being TTT is if you compare it to going to med school, but then again med students work way harder and are slaves for 40k a year for so many years after 7-8 years of extremely hard coursework . Where else can you walk into a starting gig at $160k? especially for someone with a useless undergrad degree.

P.S. I'm really not trying to argue or stick up for the legal industry, I just don't get people who commit to shit like this and not expect anything bad to happen, especially at these TTTs

So basically what you're saying is "yeah, but we all know that." Read my second line; not everyone does.

Some people think that law is still a profession, like it was in the 60s, and like medicine is today.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby TaipeiMort » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:34 am

Edit. Snarky and rude drivel.
Last edited by TaipeiMort on Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:38 am

TaipeiMort wrote:
flcath wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:
flcath wrote:I think the point is to emphasize how TTT the legal industry is, which is the clear impression left by the article overall. You can just smell it.

Bear in mind: this is news to some people.


As opposed to what? I mean doesn't pretty much everything go into the shitter with the economy. I guess the only way I can see it being TTT is if you compare it to going to med school, but then again med students work way harder and are slaves for 40k a year for so many years after 7-8 years of extremely hard coursework . Where else can you walk into a starting gig at $160k? especially for someone with a useless undergrad degree.

P.S. I'm really not trying to argue or stick up for the legal industry, I just don't get people who commit to shit like this and not expect anything bad to happen, especially at these TTTs

So basically what you're saying is "yeah, but we all know that." Read my second line; not everyone does.

Some people think that law is still a profession, like it was in the 60s, and like medicine is today.


Law is a profession. There are just few real opportunities available. I am so tired of the negativity on this site. Sure, people who can't get into T6 schools, or perform well at other schools don't have access to the profession. However, those lucky enough to make it into the profession, all the while avoiding the churn and burn NYC deals mills that are pawned off on ignorant NYU and Harvard students as being equivalent to great specialty, lit, and business firms because they have a high vault ranking, have a pretty fun and high-ceiling career.

Yeah but that's true of being a dotcom entrepreneur as well--still not a profession.

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RedBirds2011
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby RedBirds2011 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:53 am

ITT, we begin discussing what the meaning of the word "profession" is. I really would like to know what the hell goes through some people's minds sometimes.

Edit: Just because it's harder to gain entry does not mean it is not a professional occupation. And honestly, after seeing stories like this and talking with other people who are like this, I really do wonder how many actually ever wanted to be a lawyer in the first place.

Maybe they should also include as part of the employment metrics a category for students who thought "hey, what should I do? law school might be fun, they'll give me a job at the end, and I hear they also just pay you the greatest money despite having proved no real merit or even knowing what the practice of law as a job is." Fast forward 4 years: "I just don't feel fulfilled, where is my six figure job, life is so unfair and hard, law is stupid, etc." Everytime I hear someone talking about this, read something like it online, or see posts on forums, there almost always seems to be further details that explain fully the type of laissez faire attitude that got them in that situation in the first place. This, of course, is not to take away from people who really wanted to be lawyers, had realistic expectations (i.e. not wanting space law or to do securities litigation out of a lower ranked school), and are still struggling to find someway of legitimately entering the profession. My sympathies DO lie with them.
Last edited by RedBirds2011 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby DaftAndDirect » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:57 am

I hear Jordan Harbinger's dating skillz are legendary.

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sunynp
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby sunynp » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:02 am

1 Plenty of people think that GW is a great school. How many people on this forum post about going there at sticker? I got a ton of flack for posting that thing by Campos saying GW is a trap school. GW was traditionally thought of as a great school and still is by a lot of people. There is a GW class of thread here, it seems to be a reasonably popular place.

2, When people got Lathamed as first years, it was (almost) impossible for them to find other jobs. If no biglaw firms are hiring, where do you think the jobs are? I know people who were laid off and could barely find interviews, as a junior it is worse because they don't know anything. If anyone was hiring it would have been a one person place like the bankruptcy guy went to, he learned by teaching himself in the library. There literally were no jobs. (Just like now for many people.)

3. People may claim they never wanted to practice law, and it may be true. But I doubt it. I think most people have some idea they want to practice, again they just don't want to admit they didn't know what they were doing, or even that they found a job they like better. Notice the ESPN guy downplays how hard it is to have to repay loans. Remember he needs to look successful in the eyes of his coworkers.

I think this article made a mistake in not highlighting how many interviews people went on, or how many resumes they sent out. I don't blame the people interviewed though. They need to sound like they are doing well, or as well as can be expected. This article is going to follow them for a long time in their career.

Like the bankruptcy guy makes it sound like he just "heard" about a position with a one guy firm. Don't you suppose that bankruptcy guy was searching for jobs every day to find that ? And that he felt grateful just to have any job at all. How many places do you think were hiring new lawyers post-crash? Compare supply and demand.

I think it is the same with the other people. They don't want to admit they couldn't get hired or they are trying to justify their lives now. They are not willing to make themselves look bad. We all know the health care person can't find a job now at a firm - firms with these practices are just not going to hire her.

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sunynp
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby sunynp » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 am

flem wrote:So they went to shitty schools, or they went to highly regional schools and tried to work outside the region?

With the exception of the UMichigan bro, shocking things didn't work out.

Plus there was this thing called the great recession. Ties weren't as much of a concern before that. Though they should have been, I guess.

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catholicgirl
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby catholicgirl » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:33 am

That was probably one of the most frustrating things I've ever read, especially the last two people they featured who went into fundraising and to work at the YMCA.

How in the hell did those people not understand that working as an attorney requires A LOT OF TIME?!!! Most attorneys who make a lot of money work a lot of hours.

Head desk, repeat.

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Odd Future Wolf Gang
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby Odd Future Wolf Gang » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:31 am

I can't believe the A-A girl turned down GUARANTEED EMPLOYMENT at a Big4 for law school. She must be mad as FUARKKKKKKKKKKK.

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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby catholicgirl » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:55 pm

flem wrote:
catholicgirl wrote:That was probably one of the most frustrating things I've ever read, especially the last two people they featured who went into fundraising and to work at the YMCA.

How in the hell did those people not understand that working as an attorney requires A LOT OF TIME?!!! Most attorneys who make a lot of money work a lot of hours.

Head desk, repeat.


At one accepted students weekend I attended, some girl asked on two separate occasions how much work law school and being a lawyer would be.

People are stupid. HTH


Yup. I had one girl tell me to my face that no one cares where you went to law school unless you go to Yale or Harvard. All of the rest are apparently the same. (In response to me telling her to not go to Cooley).

The brain, it hurts.

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TTTLS
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Re: 10 Faces Behind The Law School Underemployment Crisis

Postby TTTLS » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:13 pm

flem wrote:People are stupid. HTH
Meh, I think they're just misinformed.




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