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LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:06 am
by Falcon2012
Hi everyone,

I am in the same situation as most of you. I received an NC and a S(satisfactory) grade for two courses last Fall. Now I am applying to law schools and LSDAS dropped it from 3.4 to 2.9. They gave me a 0 for 4 units of the NC course and did not calculate the S into the GPA. When I talked to them I asked them the following- " If you absolutely want to evaluate that as a failure than actually I received a grade D so you need to give me at least 1 point. Also, if you give 0 for the NC, with the same logic I must receive 4.0 for the other class that I passed." This is an unfair discrimination. They advised me that I should talk to my schools registrars office, which keeps telling me that they can't do anything and LSDAS can interpret my transcript any way that they want. I started pushing this idea that by doing so LSAC uses unfair judgement by discriminating between the classes and putting me at a disadvantage for being accepted. In response they said that everyone from my school is treated the same, due to the schools "directions" about how to treat the NCs. I am still trying to find out what are those "directions" I told LSAC that I compete not only with the students from my University, but also others. The only thing LSAC said was you are not going to get anywhere with this, but you can write us a letter. I am not a lawyer yet, but I smell a lawsuit. Please let me know your thought or if anyone was in my shoes before, I would like to know the outcome. Thanks!

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:34 am
by aekea
Falcon2012 wrote:Hi everyone,

I am in the same situation as most of you. I received an NC and a S(satisfactory) grade for two courses last Fall. Now I am applying to law schools and LSDAS dropped it from 3.4 to 2.9. They gave me a 0 for 4 units of the NC course and did not calculate the S into the GPA. When I talked to them I asked them the following- " If you absolutely want to evaluate that as a failure than actually I received a grade D so you need to give me at least 1 point. Also, if you give 0 for the NC, with the same logic I must receive 4.0 for the other class that I passed." This is an unfair discrimination. They advised me that I should talk to my schools registrars office, which keeps telling me that they can't do anything and LSDAS can interpret my transcript any way that they want. I started pushing this idea that by doing so LSAC uses unfair judgement by discriminating between the classes and putting me at a disadvantage for being accepted. In response they said that everyone from my school is treated the same, due to the schools "directions" about how to treat the NCs. I am still trying to find out what are those "directions" I told LSAC that I compete not only with the students from my University, but also others. The only thing LSAC said was you are not going to get anywhere with this, but you can write us a letter. I am not a lawyer yet, but I smell a lawsuit. Please let me know your thought or if anyone was in my shoes before, I would like to know the outcome. Thanks!

Look, it sucks that LSAC's method for evaluating your GPA made it look much worse than the way your UG calculated it, but they are not "discriminating" between the classes. Please do not try to sue them over this. You're most definitely going to lose and very likely going to embarrass yourself.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:56 am
by gaud
Falcon2012 wrote:I am in the same situation as most of you. I received an NC and a S(satisfactory) grade for two courses last Fall. !


wut?


sorry about your situation, though. that blows.

you should totally talk to an attorney and let us know what he/she says :P

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:56 am
by Falcon2012
aekea wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:Hi everyone,

I am in the same situation as most of you. I received an NC and a S(satisfactory) grade for two courses last Fall. Now I am applying to law schools and LSDAS dropped it from 3.4 to 2.9. They gave me a 0 for 4 units of the NC course and did not calculate the S into the GPA. When I talked to them I asked them the following- " If you absolutely want to evaluate that as a failure than actually I received a grade D so you need to give me at least 1 point. Also, if you give 0 for the NC, with the same logic I must receive 4.0 for the other class that I passed." This is an unfair discrimination. They advised me that I should talk to my schools registrars office, which keeps telling me that they can't do anything and LSDAS can interpret my transcript any way that they want. I started pushing this idea that by doing so LSAC uses unfair judgement by discriminating between the classes and putting me at a disadvantage for being accepted. In response they said that everyone from my school is treated the same, due to the schools "directions" about how to treat the NCs. I am still trying to find out what are those "directions" I told LSAC that I compete not only with the students from my University, but also others. The only thing LSAC said was you are not going to get anywhere with this, but you can write us a letter. I am not a lawyer yet, but I smell a lawsuit. Please let me know your thought or if anyone was in my shoes before, I would like to know the outcome. Thanks!

Look, it sucks that LSAC's method for evaluating your GPA made it look much worse than the way your UG calculated it, but they are not "discriminating" between the classes. Please do not try to sue them over this. You're most definitely going to lose and very likely going to embarrass yourself.


I most certainly do not want to embarrass myself, neither I am trying to blame anyone that I did not pass the course. Don't get the wrong impression. However, I still cannot follow the logic of granting 0 points for an NC and not consider the S into the GPA. If anyone is using a certain way of evaluation, calculation or whatever you want to call it then it has to be at least consistent! Consistent with respect to every student as well as every class.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:59 am
by Mal Reynolds
If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.

Pass/Fail courses are done the same way. If you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. If you fail, it's counted as a fail. If there was no penalty for failing a class why the hell would people do any work at all? It would make our degrees even more meaningless than they are now.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:07 am
by Falcon2012
Mal Reynolds wrote:If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.

Pass/Fail courses are done the same way. If you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. If you fail, it's counted as a fail. If there was no penalty for failing a class why the hell would people do any work at all? It would make our degrees even more meaningless than they are now.


I don't think people do work because they don't want to fail. Nobody forces you to take the course. You take the course with the intention of passing it and receiving the credit towards graduation, if you get an NC you don't get the units nor the credits. There is a reason why undergraduate universities do not count the NC towards your GPA.

Another thought for you. Fine, if you want to punish the NC by evaluating it as an F, then you should also evaluate the other class that you received an S. If NC is the same thing as an F then why have NC at all? Moreover, a grade of a D is also an NC, but yet it is evaluated as an F. This idea of "if you did not pass the class then you failed" is just not consistent. How about "if you passed the class, you got an A"?

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:09 am
by Blessedassurance
Fight the power!

We shall overcome.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:09 am
by Falcon2012
gaud wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:I am in the same situation as most of you. I received an NC and a S(satisfactory) grade for two courses last Fall. !


wut?


sorry about your situation, though. that blows.

you should totally talk to an attorney and let us know what he/she says :P


If I ever do, I will surely post it here. There are discussions about this all over the internet and I think once someone starts it, there will be a lot more joining.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:10 am
by Mal Reynolds
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.

Pass/Fail courses are done the same way. If you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. If you fail, it's counted as a fail. If there was no penalty for failing a class why the hell would people do any work at all? It would make our degrees even more meaningless than they are now.


I don't think people do work because they don't want to fail. Nobody forces you to take the course. You take the course with the intention of passing it and receiving the credit towards graduation, if you get an NC you don't get the units nor the credits. There is a reason why undergraduate universities do not count the NC towards your GPA.

Another thought for you. Fine, if you want to punish the NC by evaluating it as an F, then you should also evaluate the other class that you received an S. If NC is the same thing as an F then why have NC at all? Moreover, a grade of a D is also an NC, but yet it is evaluated as an F. This idea of "if you did not pass the class then you failed" is just not consistent. How about "if you passed the class, you got an A"?


LSAC disagrees with you. But they interpret everyone's GPA with the same guidelines. So minus certain schools doing odd things with pass/fail classes, and GPA calculations-like yours-it's not really unfair. Lowering your GPA from what you thought it should be isn't unfair if LSAC will do that to everyone in your position. That's how people's GPAs are normalized. It's not perfect, but you also don't have to go to law school.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:27 am
by Falcon2012
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.

Pass/Fail courses are done the same way. If you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. If you fail, it's counted as a fail. If there was no penalty for failing a class why the hell would people do any work at all? It would make our degrees even more meaningless than they are now.


I don't think people do work because they don't want to fail. Nobody forces you to take the course. You take the course with the intention of passing it and receiving the credit towards graduation, if you get an NC you don't get the units nor the credits. There is a reason why undergraduate universities do not count the NC towards your GPA.

Another thought for you. Fine, if you want to punish the NC by evaluating it as an F, then you should also evaluate the other class that you received an S. If NC is the same thing as an F then why have NC at all? Moreover, a grade of a D is also an NC, but yet it is evaluated as an F. This idea of "if you did not pass the class then you failed" is just not consistent. How about "if you passed the class, you got an A"?


LSAC disagrees with you. But they interpret everyone's GPA with the same guidelines. So minus certain schools doing odd things with pass/fail classes, and GPA calculations-like yours-it's not really unfair. Lowering your GPA from what you thought it should be isn't unfair if LSAC will do that to everyone in your position. That's how people's GPAs are normalized. It's not perfect, but you also don't have to go to law school.


Ok, then let's count F's for every class that anyone received a W in. I have a better idea, lets pick every student who took part-time classes and count their C's as F's. We should be able to do that as long as we put everyone in the same position right? Or no, even better. Lets select everyone who took a Law class and got an F in a Law or Philosophy class and count it as double F. We can't do that can we? What about people who never took law classes? Their GPA will be much higher. But wait, we can do it, because we will do it for every person who took a Law or a Philosophy class. This is the same logic you used to justify it.

You see where I am going with this?

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:29 am
by aekea
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.

Pass/Fail courses are done the same way. If you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. If you fail, it's counted as a fail. If there was no penalty for failing a class why the hell would people do any work at all? It would make our degrees even more meaningless than they are now.


I don't think people do work because they don't want to fail. Nobody forces you to take the course. You take the course with the intention of passing it and receiving the credit towards graduation, if you get an NC you don't get the units nor the credits. There is a reason why undergraduate universities do not count the NC towards your GPA.

Another thought for you. Fine, if you want to punish the NC by evaluating it as an F, then you should also evaluate the other class that you received an S. If NC is the same thing as an F then why have NC at all? Moreover, a grade of a D is also an NC, but yet it is evaluated as an F. This idea of "if you did not pass the class then you failed" is just not consistent. How about "if you passed the class, you got an A"?

I know you're frustrated that your NC is counting as a fail, but that is the way LSAC counts that grade. If an NC can be a D or an F and they were to count it as a D, then people who earned an F and took an NC would be getting a D grade, according to LSAC's system. That would give people who earned that F an unfair advantage. Instead, they give everyone with a NC an F, thereby preventing people from gaming the system. The lesson here, I guess, is take the D and not the NC. Also, I'm not sure what the point of an NC is.

In regards to the S being counted as an A, that's unfair to the people who actually earned an A in that class. If S was counted as an A people would slack off, take the S and LSAC would award them an A for that effort. Because an S could be anywhere from a C- to an A+, LSAC is abstaining from awarding you any points toward your GPA. Really, there's no reason to take classes S/NC unless you didn't do very well in the class. LSAC's not going to pretend like your S is an A, because there's a good chance most of those S's are Cs. Honestly, I think you're lucky they don't evaluate S's as Cs because they probably could if they wanted to. My point is, basically, that they're not discriminating. They're just not giving you the benefit of the doubt on classes where you didn't earn a letter grade.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:36 am
by Mal Reynolds
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.

Pass/Fail courses are done the same way. If you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. If you fail, it's counted as a fail. If there was no penalty for failing a class why the hell would people do any work at all? It would make our degrees even more meaningless than they are now.


I don't think people do work because they don't want to fail. Nobody forces you to take the course. You take the course with the intention of passing it and receiving the credit towards graduation, if you get an NC you don't get the units nor the credits. There is a reason why undergraduate universities do not count the NC towards your GPA.

Another thought for you. Fine, if you want to punish the NC by evaluating it as an F, then you should also evaluate the other class that you received an S. If NC is the same thing as an F then why have NC at all? Moreover, a grade of a D is also an NC, but yet it is evaluated as an F. This idea of "if you did not pass the class then you failed" is just not consistent. How about "if you passed the class, you got an A"?


LSAC disagrees with you. But they interpret everyone's GPA with the same guidelines. So minus certain schools doing odd things with pass/fail classes, and GPA calculations-like yours-it's not really unfair. Lowering your GPA from what you thought it should be isn't unfair if LSAC will do that to everyone in your position. That's how people's GPAs are normalized. It's not perfect, but you also don't have to go to law school.


Ok, then let's count F's for every class that anyone received a W in. I have a better idea, lets pick every student who took part-time classes and count their C's as F's. We should be able to do that as long as we put everyone in the same position right? Or no, even better. Lets select everyone who took a Law class and got an F in a Law or Philosophy class and count it as double F. We can't do that can we? What about people who never took law classes? Their GPA will be much higher. But wait, we can do it, because we will do it for every person who took a Law or a Philosophy class. This is the same logic you used to justify it.

You see where I am going with this?


I see where you're going but it's down a very stupid and butthurt road. I could respond to these ideas but they are all dumber than the last.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:41 am
by Falcon2012
aekea wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.

Pass/Fail courses are done the same way. If you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. If you fail, it's counted as a fail. If there was no penalty for failing a class why the hell would people do any work at all? It would make our degrees even more meaningless than they are now.


I don't think people do work because they don't want to fail. Nobody forces you to take the course. You take the course with the intention of passing it and receiving the credit towards graduation, if you get an NC you don't get the units nor the credits. There is a reason why undergraduate universities do not count the NC towards your GPA.

Another thought for you. Fine, if you want to punish the NC by evaluating it as an F, then you should also evaluate the other class that you received an S. If NC is the same thing as an F then why have NC at all? Moreover, a grade of a D is also an NC, but yet it is evaluated as an F. This idea of "if you did not pass the class then you failed" is just not consistent. How about "if you passed the class, you got an A"?

I know you're frustrated that your NC is counting as a fail, but that is the way LSAC counts that grade. If an NC can be a D or an F and they were to count it as a D, then people who earned an F and took an NC would be getting a D grade, according to LSAC's system. That would give people who earned that F an unfair advantage. Instead, they give everyone with a NC an F, thereby preventing people from gaming the system. The lesson here, I guess, is take the D and not the NC. Also, I'm not sure what the point of an NC is.

In regards to the S being counted as an A, that's unfair to the people who actually earned an A in that class. If S was counted as an A people would slack off, take the S and LSAC would award them an A for that effort. Because an S could be anywhere from a C- to an A+, LSAC is abstaining from awarding you any points toward your GPA. Really, there's no reason to take classes S/NC unless you didn't do very well in the class. LSAC's not going to pretend like your S is an A, because there's a good chance most of those S's are Cs. Honestly, I think you're lucky they don't evaluate S's as Cs because they probably could if they wanted to. My point is, basically, that they're not discriminating. They're just not giving you the benefit of the doubt on classes where you didn't earn a letter grade.


I absolutely agree with you, I am not saying that my option is the fair one. Instead of counting the S as an A count it as a C- then. All I am saying if you put the D and F people in the same bracket when it comes to the NC's then why not pull the D's up to the F's instead of pulling the D's down to the F's? This is why not counting the NC and the S is the safest and fairest way of representing everyone's GPA's? Do you think anyone will be misrepresented by that? I don't think so. However, for some odd reason LSAC decided to give 0 for one and ignore the other, referring to the NC and the S correspondingly.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:45 am
by Falcon2012
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.



I don't think people do work because they don't want to fail. Nobody forces you to take the course. You take the course with the intention of passing it and receiving the credit towards graduation, if you get an NC you don't get the units nor the credits. There is a reason why undergraduate universities do not count the NC towards your GPA.

Another thought for you. Fine, if you want to punish the NC by evaluating it as an F, then you should also evaluate the other class that you received an S. If NC is the same thing as an F then why have NC at all? Moreover, a grade of a D is also an NC, but yet it is evaluated as an F. This idea of "if you did not pass the class then you failed" is just not consistent. How about "if you passed the class, you got an A"?


LSAC disagrees with you. But they interpret everyone's GPA with the same guidelines. So minus certain schools doing odd things with pass/fail classes, and GPA calculations-like yours-it's not really unfair. Lowering your GPA from what you thought it should be isn't unfair if LSAC will do that to everyone in your position. That's how people's GPAs are normalized. It's not perfect, but you also don't have to go to law school.


Ok, then let's count F's for every class that anyone received a W in. I have a better idea, lets pick every student who took part-time classes and count their C's as F's. We should be able to do that as long as we put everyone in the same position right? Or no, even better. Lets select everyone who took a Law class and got an F in a Law or Philosophy class and count it as double F. We can't do that can we? What about people who never took law classes? Their GPA will be much higher. But wait, we can do it, because we will do it for every person who took a Law or a Philosophy class. This is the same logic you used to justify it.

You see where I am going with this?


I see where you're going but it's down a very stupid and butthurt road. I could respond to these ideas but they are all dumber than the last.


Well sorry, I had to take it to absurdity to make you understand the point and please do not participate in my forum and then insult me. Thank you.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:48 am
by aekea
Falcon2012 wrote:
aekea wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.

Pass/Fail courses are done the same way. If you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. If you fail, it's counted as a fail. If there was no penalty for failing a class why the hell would people do any work at all? It would make our degrees even more meaningless than they are now.


I don't think people do work because they don't want to fail. Nobody forces you to take the course. You take the course with the intention of passing it and receiving the credit towards graduation, if you get an NC you don't get the units nor the credits. There is a reason why undergraduate universities do not count the NC towards your GPA.

Another thought for you. Fine, if you want to punish the NC by evaluating it as an F, then you should also evaluate the other class that you received an S. If NC is the same thing as an F then why have NC at all? Moreover, a grade of a D is also an NC, but yet it is evaluated as an F. This idea of "if you did not pass the class then you failed" is just not consistent. How about "if you passed the class, you got an A"?

I know you're frustrated that your NC is counting as a fail, but that is the way LSAC counts that grade. If an NC can be a D or an F and they were to count it as a D, then people who earned an F and took an NC would be getting a D grade, according to LSAC's system. That would give people who earned that F an unfair advantage. Instead, they give everyone with a NC an F, thereby preventing people from gaming the system. The lesson here, I guess, is take the D and not the NC. Also, I'm not sure what the point of an NC is.

In regards to the S being counted as an A, that's unfair to the people who actually earned an A in that class. If S was counted as an A people would slack off, take the S and LSAC would award them an A for that effort. Because an S could be anywhere from a C- to an A+, LSAC is abstaining from awarding you any points toward your GPA. Really, there's no reason to take classes S/NC unless you didn't do very well in the class. LSAC's not going to pretend like your S is an A, because there's a good chance most of those S's are Cs. Honestly, I think you're lucky they don't evaluate S's as Cs because they probably could if they wanted to. My point is, basically, that they're not discriminating. They're just not giving you the benefit of the doubt on classes where you didn't earn a letter grade.


I absolutely agree with you, I am not saying that my option is the fair one. Instead of counting the S as an A count it as a C- then. All I am saying if you put the D and F people in the same bracket when it comes to the NC's then why not pull the D's up to the F's instead of pulling the D's down to the F's? This is why not counting the NC and the S is the safest and fairest way of representing everyone's GPA's? Do you think anyone will be misrepresented by that? I don't think so. However, for some odd reason LSAC decided to give 0 for one and ignore the other, referring to the NC and the S correspondingly.

It's not fair, though. Someone who has taken a NC has earned either a D or an F in a class. That needs to be reflected somehow in your GPA. Because it's unclear who earned a D and who earned an F, LSAC must choose one to assign to everyone. I've already explained why it would be unfair to award Ds to people who failed a class.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:50 am
by Mal Reynolds
Falcon2012 wrote:Well sorry, I had to take it to absurdity to make you understand the point and please do not participate in my forum and then insult me. Thank you.

I understood your method of argument. It is still a bad argument however.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:53 am
by bernaldiaz
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:Well sorry, I had to take it to absurdity to make you understand the point and please do not participate in my forum and then insult me. Thank you.

I understood your method of argument. It is still a bad argument however.

Also, all you had to do was pass the class. Complain all you want, but you didn't need to put yourself in this position to begin with.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:01 am
by Falcon2012
bernaldiaz wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:Well sorry, I had to take it to absurdity to make you understand the point and please do not participate in my forum and then insult me. Thank you.

I understood your method of argument. It is still a bad argument however.

Also, all you had to do was pass the class. Complain all you want, but you didn't need to put yourself in this position to begin with.


Yes, your right. If earth did not exist we would not be talking either.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:04 am
by bernaldiaz
Falcon2012 wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:Well sorry, I had to take it to absurdity to make you understand the point and please do not participate in my forum and then insult me. Thank you.

I understood your method of argument. It is still a bad argument however.

Also, all you had to do was pass the class. Complain all you want, but you didn't need to put yourself in this position to begin with.


Yes, your right. If earth did not exist we would not be talking either.


Profound shit man.

My point is that you fucked up. Deal with the consequences. I wasn't coming up with a counterfactual. There really doesn't seem much to debate here. You failed a class and received the corresponding grade from the LSAC.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:06 am
by PARTY
Falcon2012 for worst arguer? anyone?

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:17 am
by Falcon2012
PARTY wrote:Falcon2012 for worst arguer? anyone?


Some of my posts are not even arguments, I am just making some counterarguments sound ridiculous. Just like the one about me not passing the class and complaining. It is very obvious that if I had passed the class I would not have this conversation. This is no part of the argument. So stop trying to accuse me for not passing the class, I know that already. What you don't know is some things that were happening in my life while I was taking that class, but those things are irrelevant.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:20 am
by Falcon2012
bernaldiaz wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:


Yes, your right. If earth did not exist we would not be talking either.


Profound shit man.

My point is that you fucked up. Deal with the consequences. I wasn't coming up with a counterfactual. There really doesn't seem much to debate here. You failed a class and received the corresponding grade from the LSAC.


Thanks for reminding me that I did not pass the class. I will remind you, I know that. You did not discover anything new. This is not the point discussed. And yes, keep your language within your environment.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:24 am
by Mal Reynolds
Falcon2012 wrote:And yes, keep your language within your environment.


wut

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:25 am
by bernaldiaz
Falcon2012 wrote:Thanks for reminding me that I did not pass the class. I will remind you, I know that. You did not discover anything new. This is not the point discussed. And yes, keep your language within your environment.


Dude. What is the point that is being discussed then? The LSAC isn't going to change their ruling. They have certain standards, that to the rest of us seem immanently fair, and those standards dictate that you are going to receive a 0 for not passing that class.

The best advice I can give to you is to not try to get the LSAC to change their mind. Their rules are pretty set, and honestly pretty fair, and it seems like they made a fairly reasonable decision in your case. The only thing that might be able to help you is if you can somehow get your undergrad to stress that the class is non-punitive. Really, it sounds like your UG is the one that is being obtuse here. If things really are how you say they are, they should be willing to stick their necks out and help their student.

Re: LSADS GPA conversion for an NC class! they do what they want

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:59 am
by wearefoxsports
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Falcon2012 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If you took a course and earned an NC that means you didn't receive credit for the class. It should be interpreted as an F.

Pass/Fail courses are done the same way. If you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. If you fail, it's counted as a fail. If there was no penalty for failing a class why the hell would people do any work at all? It would make our degrees even more meaningless than they are now.


I don't think people do work because they don't want to fail. Nobody forces you to take the course. You take the course with the intention of passing it and receiving the credit towards graduation, if you get an NC you don't get the units nor the credits. There is a reason why undergraduate universities do not count the NC towards your GPA.

Another thought for you. Fine, if you want to punish the NC by evaluating it as an F, then you should also evaluate the other class that you received an S. If NC is the same thing as an F then why have NC at all? Moreover, a grade of a D is also an NC, but yet it is evaluated as an F. This idea of "if you did not pass the class then you failed" is just not consistent. How about "if you passed the class, you got an A"?


LSAC disagrees with you. But they interpret everyone's GPA with the same guidelines. So minus certain schools doing odd things with pass/fail classes, and GPA calculations-like yours-it's not really unfair. Lowering your GPA from what you thought it should be isn't unfair if LSAC will do that to everyone in your position. That's how people's GPAs are normalized. It's not perfect, but you also don't have to go to law school.


Ok, then let's count F's for every class that anyone received a W in. I have a better idea, lets pick every student who took part-time classes and count their C's as F's. We should be able to do that as long as we put everyone in the same position right? Or no, even better. Lets select everyone who took a Law class and got an F in a Law or Philosophy class and count it as double F. We can't do that can we? What about people who never took law classes? Their GPA will be much higher. But wait, we can do it, because we will do it for every person who took a Law or a Philosophy class. This is the same logic you used to justify it.

You see where I am going with this?


I see where you are going: you are going too far. You do realize there are different types of Ws that LSAC considers? At least in my school, one can only withdraw without approval prior to the end of the 4th week since class starts, and if he/she wants to withdraw after that, his/her work has to be evaluated by the instructor before a grade is assigned. If the his/her work is acceptable, a "WP" is assigned (which doesn't count against the GPA); if the work does not meet the minimum requirements, a "WF" is assigned (which counts as an F).

Additionally, all C/NC classes I have taken only require minimum amount of work (seminars, independent study etc.), and because there isn't enough work to be evaluated in those classes, either "C" (means one did ok), or "NC" (means one did terribly) is assigned.

From this perspective, WP/WF situation is actually very similar to C/NC situation: you did some limited amount of work, which wasn't enough to be evaluated in an A to F scale. Hence, the quality of your work wouldn't generally factor in your GPA UNLESS you failed to meet the minimum requirements of such classes, which should negatively impact your GPA. Therefore, I completely understand and agree with LSAC's treatment of WP/WF and C/NC grades. Rest of your statements are completely arbitrary and are not even arguments.

That being said, if I were you, I would try to focus on something I can still change rather than something I can't: study as hard as you can in LSAT and put together a great application package. All is not lost, and you can still do it!