Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school Forum

[bilbobaggins]

Diana Holt is a great example of an individual with mistakes in her past who is now an amazing death penalty attorney. She was convicted and served three years for armed robbery of a U.S. Marshall in her late teens.

[09042014]

Bad idea: Lying on your application and getting kicked out of school.

Worse idea: Making a thread about your very unique situation on a forum that admissions people are very familiar with, talking all about your mental health issues and how they contributed to your getting kicked out of school, and then talking about how you won't mention those at all when you apply again.

You've already talked to deans, admissions consultants, and people who actually might know something about this. Dragging all of your laundry out on this forum to get the opinions of people who actually have no idea what might happen with your very unique situation seems to be a horrible idea.

Unrelated news: When you talk about the arson incident, for gods sake stop saying things like "Accidentally set a fire while melting action figures". Say "Accidentally set a fire". The other one makes you sound like a juvenile psychopath, which is really the absolutely wrong impression you want in your circumstances.

Well he purposely started a fire by burning action figures. He accidentally burned the port-a-potty. IT was so long ago, nobody will care about the details, but they will care if you hiding shit.

[Mr. Whipple]

I met *** once. He seemed like a very charming, intelligent, and handsome young man.

He should have a more clear understanding of the exact reasons for his dismissal. We at ***** University take our student's safety, academic progress, and comfort very seriously. Naturally having a large a diverse student population means some of our decisions are by their very nature, a compromise.

Take for example, the toilet paper we provide on campus. This quite possibly is the most difficult choice we make. Strength or Softness? Strength or Softness? It’s a perplexing dilemma that kept many on staff awake for many hours. While we do our best to provide solutions that best serve the needs our students, some are going to be disappointed. We expect that our students, the bright shining stars of America’s legal future would understand and respect that we made the best choice we could to serve the greatest good of our student body.

To have some little L1 compare our toilet paper to 30 grit sandpaper while giving no consideration for our toilet paper’s extremely high tensile strength was a complete slap in the face. A comment stating that we are too cheap to provide quality to our students is unacceptable!

What would be next, you complaining about the quality of education?

Sorry Son. Nobody shits on our toilet paper and graduates. Well, that’s not really true, but you get the metaphor.

[09042014]

That confuses me but our toliet paper is TTT. It's both harsh and brittle.

[Holly Golightly]

I met *** once. He seemed like a very charming, intelligent, and handsome young man.

He should have a more clear understanding of the exact reasons for his dismissal. We at ***** University take our student's safety, academic progress, and comfort very seriously. Naturally having a large a diverse student population means some of our decisions are by their very nature, a compromise.

Take for example, the toilet paper we provide on campus. This quite possibly is the most difficult choice we make. Strength or Softness? Strength or Softness? It’s a perplexing dilemma that kept many on staff awake for many hours. While we do our best to provide solutions that best serve the needs our students, some are going to be disappointed. We expect that our students, the bright shining stars of America’s legal future would understand and respect that we made the best choice we could to serve the greatest good of our student body.

To have some little L1 compare our toilet paper to 30 grit sandpaper while giving no consideration for our toilet paper’s extremely high tensile strength was a complete slap in the face. A comment stating that we are too cheap to provide quality to our students is unacceptable!

What would be next, you complaining about the quality of education?

Sorry Son. Nobody shits on our toilet paper and graduates. Well, that’s not really true, but you get the metaphor.

I would put $10 on knowing the identity of this poster, having read nothing but the first 5 sentences of this post.

[dontbeanidiot]

Point taken, sunynp. I've been traveling all day, guess it's been on my mind obviously and I need something to do to pass the time. Discretion is the better part of valor though, like they say.

I mean I loved Mr. Whipple's post, but it reflects a pretty problematic perspective on life. And on toilet paper. If you want to PM me to talk about my experience, you're welcome, but advice is all I'm interested in in this thread from this point.

[sunynp]

OP - you might consider just taking a break from this thread. Go have a great weekend. Go to a baseball game or something if it isn't too cold. Walk away from this for a while. I don't think there is any good advice to be posted that isn't in this thread already.

Should someone have a great idea and shares it, the post will still be there.

Also - I would redact the above post. You aren't gaining anything. If you have to do something type up you answers and just save them into a word file, you can always add them later.

[1776]

Good luck. Such an prevalance of mental health stigmas

[PDaddy]

It makes me very, very sad. I don't honestly know if there's anything you can do that will give you enough of a guarantee to justify the risk. I'm so sorry. This isn't a fair situation to be in. You don't deserve this. C&F seems so unfair.

I cry no tears for OP, a person who clearly does not have his life together and refuses to take responsibility for his actions. Mental health issues aside, it was unfair for OP to take a seat from a candidate who might otherwise have beaten him out for the seat had the adcom known the full truth about his background.

Just think of how some person's life may have been drastically altered by OP's actions (educationally, romantically, socially, financially, etc.) and you'll feel much better about reading OP his rights.

I take very seriously the role C & F plays in the selection process of law students and attorneys. The public deserves protection from potential thieves, scammers, liars, drug and alcohol addicts, etc. Lawyers have the freedom and financial welfare and very lives of people in their hands, and the authorities cannot and should not enlist into the profession those who fail to demonstrate trustworthiness. The prospect of OP becoming a prosecutor scares me.

Find another line of work.

[Miracle]

Why were you dismissed? Can you give us any insight in to what happened? Was it an academic dismissal or student conduct dismissal. I don't understand what is going on here.

[minnbills]

That confuses me but our toliet paper is TTT. It's both harsh and brittle.

Puts hair on your chest

[PDaddy]

The materiality of the misrepresentation is a question too, since in rescinding a contract, an element is a misrepresentation of the level of materiality such that the other party would not have entered into the contract had the "misrepresentation" been known.

The big picture still eludes you. The contract theory you cite is less appropriate here than are the genral rules of evidence. There exists a strong presumption on the part of the applicant that the non-disclosed issues ARE material, otherwise they would have been disclosed. That presumption is created by the applicant when he lies or fails to disclose information on the application. Hence, the failure to disclose creates a rebuttable presumption that the school would not have otherwise admitted the applicant, because the applicant is, himself, assumed to believe so.

Besides, one could argue under the well-established contract law doctrines that an applicant who secures admission under false pretenses has committed fraudulent inducement, particularly where he accepts and receives scholarship money that might have otherwise been given to another student.

Secondly, you must understand that "relevance" and "materiality" are determined by their "probative value", i.e. their ability to make the truth of a matter more or less likely. The principle "matter" of C & F on a law school application is the trustworthiness (or lack thereof) of the applicant, as determined by his/her responses to the question(s).

By lying when queried about even the most trivial offense, one indicates a greater likelihood that he will mislead or outright lie when a more serious matter is at hand. One indicates that he is more likely to cheat on an exam, steal study materials or property belonging to another student, plagarize another's work, or falsely accuse or blame another for his own transgression. One indicates a greater likelihood that he will not disclose evidence that disfavors his case if he is a prosecutor, fail to disclose settlement/plea offers that only he deems inadequate, or misappropriate the funds of a client or the state.

[sunynp]

It makes me very, very sad. I don't honestly know if there's anything you can do that will give you enough of a guarantee to justify the risk. I'm so sorry. This isn't a fair situation to be in. You don't deserve this. C&F seems so unfair.

I cry no tears for OP, a person who clearly does not have his life together and refuses to take responsibility for his actions. Mental health issues aside, it was unfair for OP to take a seat from a candidate who might otherwise have beaten him out for the seat had the adcom known the full truth about his background.

Just think of how some person's life may have been drastically altered by OP's actions (educationally, romantically, socially, financially, etc.) and you'll feel much better about reading OP his rights.

I take very seriously the role C & F plays in the selection process of law students and attorneys. The public deserves protection from potential thieves, scammers, liars, drug and alcohol addicts, etc. Lawyers have the freedom and financial welfare and very lives of people in their hands, and the authorities cannot and should not enlist into the profession those who fail to demonstrate trustworthiness. The prospect of OP becoming a prosecutor scares me.

Find another line of work.

We don't know if OP would have not been admitted if he had disclosed. It was a pretty minor thing a long time ago. The non-disclosure was a reason to get rid of OP; but the actual disclosure might not have hurt him to the point of non-admission.

[sunynp]

Why were you dismissed? Can you give us any insight in to what happened? Was it an academic dismissal or student conduct dismissal. I don't understand what is going on here.

I think OP decide to redact his information because people here know him.

[bilbobaggins]

It makes me very, very sad. I don't honestly know if there's anything you can do that will give you enough of a guarantee to justify the risk. I'm so sorry. This isn't a fair situation to be in. You don't deserve this. C&F seems so unfair.

I cry no tears for OP, a person who clearly does not have his life together and refuses to take responsibility for his actions. Mental health issues aside, it was unfair for OP to take a seat from a candidate who might otherwise have beaten him out for the seat had the adcom known the full truth about his background.

Just think of how some person's life may have been drastically altered by OP's actions (educationally, romantically, socially, financially, etc.) and you'll feel much better about reading OP his rights.

I take very seriously the role C & F plays in the selection process of law students and attorneys. The public deserves protection from potential thieves, scammers, liars, drug and alcohol addicts, etc. Lawyers have the freedom and financial welfare and very lives of people in their hands, and the authorities cannot and should not enlist into the profession those who fail to demonstrate trustworthiness. The prospect of OP becoming a prosecutor scares me.

Find another line of work.

[dresden doll]

So was this guy nominally dismissed for failure to disclose, but more than likely actually dismissed for having a mental illness? Is that the consensus?

I don't know if that's the consensus. But that's what I believe. Too few people are genuinely compassionate. Almost everyone is painfully ignorant about mental health. They'll label you a pariah if you admit to having a mental or emotional disorder. Being called schizophrenic is a pejorative. You're a crazy person, more likely to kill indiscriminately than you are to open a door for someone else. The folks that say "seek help" are the same people who will use it against you to crush your dreams later if you do. Lot of help that is, right? /rant

I don't know if this rant is partially directed at me, but let me be the first to say that I've always supported there being confidentiality between a patient and a therapist akin to the attorney-client privilege, precisely to prevent people from having their attempts to seek help held against them. I've read recently that lawyers instruct sex trafficking victims in the middle of custody battles to watch what they disclose to professionals from whom they're receiving necessary counseling because the counselor may be made to disclose what he was told in court. (Likewise, attorneys tend to implore those counselors not to make extensive notes of their client's disclosures because the opposing side may force all out into the open in the course of discovery). I think that impedes people from obtaining necessary help and is as such pretty unconscionable.

With that being said, I don't perceive any reason to fume at the notion that C and F disfavors people with severe mental illnesses. While I feel for those people and realize they didn't choose their condition, I don't see how or why they should be allowed to practice law if their condition poses a serious danger that they might not competently discharge their duties, particularly given what a shitty, stress-filled, infuriating profession law can be.

[dresden doll]

We don't know if OP would have not been admitted if he had disclosed. It was a pretty minor thing a long time ago. The non-disclosure was a reason to get rid of OP; but the actual disclosure might not have hurt him to the point of non-admission.

Credited. I highly doubt he'd have been discharged if there hadn't been for the events he said took place in the course of his 1L year. The nondisclosure was ill-advised but still minor enough that I imagine that NU wouldn't have dismissed him for that alone.

[dontbeanidiot]

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[CoaltoNewCastle]

TBF, I've been pretty good in this thread.

I know, I'm sorry. You were just one of the nastiest people to me in that thread. It really bothered me that people assumed so much about me from that thread when I was just asking a question. I wasn't sure about whether or not I should post it, but I decided that people asked obnoxious questions like that all the time on TLS. There are so many people who ask things like "Hamilton or Yale??" and shit like that that I figured my never-asked-as-far-as-I-could-tell question would be fine in comparison. You were so mean, DF, saying you hoped I didn't end up at the school when you didn't even know anything about me. In the end, I decided I wanted Northwestern over any other choice anyway, and I'm really happy here. I love the student body and the atmosphere. I have a lot of friends, I'm involved with a lot of clubs, and I'm really friendly, outgoing, warm, and helpful and reach out to new people and make new friends all the time, even with my pretty serious Tourette Syndrome being worse than it's been since high school this year and making social interaction very hard for me. I'm not this douchey, obnoxious, socially-retarded person people must have imagined from that thread.

And when I ran for president, part of my campaign was based on how crappy the bathrooms are. I put a big poster outside the big bathrooms in Rubloff about it.

Edit: Plus I'm the only NUSL student this year to have an ATL article written about me NOT for being a racist.

[09042014]

TBF, I've been pretty good in this thread.

I know, I'm sorry. You were just one of the nastiest people to me in that thread. It really bothered me that people assumed so much about me from that thread when I was just asking a question. I wasn't sure about whether or not I should post it, but I decided that people asked obnoxious questions like that all the time on TLS. There are so many people who ask things like "Hamilton or Yale??" and shit like that that I figured my never-asked-as-far-as-I-could-tell question would be fine in comparison. You were so mean, DF, saying you hoped I didn't end up at the school when you didn't even know anything about me. In the end, I decided I wanted Northwestern over any other choice anyway, and I'm really happy here. I love the student body and the atmosphere. I have a lot of friends, I'm involved with a lot of clubs, and I'm really friendly, outgoing, warm, and helpful and reach out to new people and make new friends all the time, even with my pretty serious Tourette Syndrome being worse than it's been since high school this year and making social interaction very hard for me. I'm not this douchey, obnoxious, socially-retarded person people must have imagined from that thread.

And when I ran for president, part of my campaign was based on how crappy the bathrooms are. I put a big poster outside the big bathrooms in Rubloff about it.

Edit: Plus I'm the only NUSL student this year to have an ATL article written about me NOT for being a racist.

Now I feel like a dick because we've met IRL and I like you.

[IAFG]

Now I feel like a dick because we've met IRL and I like you.

+1.

goddamn it. why are you such a sweetheart in person but so insufferable online?!

[CoaltoNewCastle]

Aww. Thank you, guys. Who are you?! PM me.

[dontbeanidiot]

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[dontbeanidiot]

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[09042014]

You said your lesson was that you should disclose anything. And you are sitting here trying to plot how to disclose as little as possible. Didn't you learn anything?

The FBI report is irrelevant. You were arrested. Showing poor evidence that shows you weren't, is irrelevant.

Just be honest and say you didn't think you were actually arrested and you went to YMCA youth court, something obviously extralegal.

And definitely disclose whatever the fuck else happened between you and the CLR partner. Even if it was false allegations or whatever.

If you try to only disclose what someone can "prove" you are going to get fucked raw by c&f. Disclose anything.