Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

Will I get accepted into law school again?

Yes, but you will underperform your stats no matter what happens between now and when you apply
17
25%
Yes, and your stats could be good predictors but you'll need to wait
17
25%
No, this sounds like a recipe for a good old-fashioned blacklisting
33
49%
 
Total votes: 67

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Thanks, I should redact this though. Later on, some years from now or so, I'll repost for advice when its truly anonymous.
Last edited by dontbeanidiot on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby ThreeRivers » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:06 pm

I'm going to take a guess here in which I could be wrong, but I think no one on here will be able to help you much. I'd imagine you need to talk to a lawyer involving C&F issues and such...

I do wish you the best of luck

edit: Complete GUESS I'd imagine if you do some good resume boasters now you'll just slightly under-perform your numbers.. but I really have no clue

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:12 pm

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Last edited by dontbeanidiot on Mon May 14, 2012 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Brainalist
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby The Brainalist » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:40 pm

Just do B-School, bro.

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/01/an-updat ... -tinkerer/

Seriously. Law ain't that great. Law school is one of the most depressing, irritating places on earth. It would probably be worse for people prone to depression. Also, the over-reaction you got from the administration was typical of how most admins at all law schools act, and you'll be surrounded by these types after law school. Why the heck would you want to go back there when you have much better options?

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sunynp
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby sunynp » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:46 pm

My uneducated human impulses say that you should try to find another career. You don't explain everything here, I'm sure, but your medical, emotional and academic issues are going to work very hard against you. It is possible if you had disclosed in the first place, the school wouldn't have admitted you. So you can't really claim that you belonged in a T14 school and they just used this against you. There seems to be a lot of other stuff happening with you that they didn't want to deal with, at the same time, they were probably extremely angry that you didn't tell them about your past criminal history.

It may be possible to get into a much lower ranked school, but you are not getting into a T14 again. But you have to be sure that you can pass C&F in your state before you start any school that accepted you. And you have to wonder what employers will be able to find out about you.

I also wonder if you are emotionally and psychologically prepared to handle law school and law practice. It sounds like you fell apart. It also sounds like maybe your perception of how things went and how you were behaving are not entirely accurate.

I know this sounds mean, but you are facing such an uphill battle, I honestly don't think it is worth it for you to pursue. I'm sure you can maybe find a school to take you, but will that lead to a job? Are you prepared to take out full loans? What kind of job are you going to hope to find? What kind of practice? Law is a terrible choice for most people, including a lot of people posting to this forum. I can't honestly encourage you to go back to law school.

edit to add _ I know you think the school overreacted. But that is the way the entire professional world works. They don't need to have compassion and understanding. It truly isn't part of their job.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:04 pm

In short, if a court wants to rule against you, then it will find a way to do so.

The easiest path back to law school in your situation is to engage in long-term counseling with a qualified mental health professional & to permit that counselor to write a confidential recommendation on your behalf.

The great news is that you were able to get your consulting job back.

P.S. Forget about finding fault with others; your primary concern should be focused on developing a positive & healthy frame-of-mind. Don't waste your brilliance & hard work ethic on negatives.

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:14 pm

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Last edited by dontbeanidiot on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dontbeanidiot
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:21 pm

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Last edited by dontbeanidiot on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Brainalist
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby The Brainalist » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:36 pm

You'll have a much harder time becoming a prosecutor than you'll have getting back into law school and passing the C & F. You now have lying on your law school application, getting kicked out of law school, and smoking pot on your permanent record, in addition to your juvenile arrest. My understanding is that background checks, at least for federal prosecutor positions, will be incredibly thorough and will probably dig really deep into all of this stuff, and care about these kinds of things. Add on top of that the fact that prosecutor jobs are insanely hard to get and you probably would have had a very low probability of landing a position, even with good grades from a top school. Do you have other goals that justify going to law school?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:39 pm

"Long-term" needs to be defined by a professional counselor familiar with your situation.

Whether or not you should delve into "undocumented psychological issues" is an issue for you & your counselor to decide. Maybe the counselor should write & address his recommendation & any concerns to you rather than to any school.

Certainly, many law schools will admit you based on your numbers & work experience, but this is not the primary issue. The main issue is whether or not you are ready for the demands of law school; do what is best for you. Many state that "timing is everything". Wait until the time is right for you to once again attend law school. Only you & a qualified counselor can make that determination. In the meantime, enjoy your career & congratulations for getting a premier job in this economy !

barry
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby barry » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:39 pm

Don't delve into the psych issue of it, if your old school said that wasn't the issue then you can claim that wasn't the issue. I think you can get a t14, I'm a UVa student and the admissions guys here are really understanding and cool I had an acquaintance with an issue and they totally helped him through it and his issue was much more serious. If I were you I would even call the admissions office after you apply in a friendly manner and explain the teen court and how it was somewhat of a misunderstanding I seriously think they will let u in with very little trouble.

Kimberly
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:45 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby Kimberly » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:41 pm

I do have some suggestions:

1. previous posts about working on yourself, improving your insight, improving yourself, etc should not be ignored. Stress management is a very important and a very difficult part of being a professional. Clients and colleagues are going to have a very difficult time trusting you and working with you if you buckle under pressure. Improving your self awareness and stress management skills is going to be imperative for you to flourish in the future. Take time to actively work on this... don't expend the passage of time to passively solve these issues. Further, you will have to show ACTIVE work on this in your next application cycle to enlist the confidence of admissions committees.

2. Find a way to take some personal responsibility for events that have transpired in your life. It is the only way to avoid similar drama in the future. You must understand how you have contributed.

3. I would reapply if you are really still interested in becoming a lawyer. I don't agree that you should not primarily because you have zero chance of success at becoming a lawyer if you don't reapply but you have at least some minimal chance at success if you reapply. I would only apply to schools that you would realistically attend, however.

4. When you reapply, do not use the psychological aspect. Be professional and NONEMOTIONAL about the explanation. No more than a paragraph. State that you were dismissed for nondisclosure of past criminal events (none of the suicidal ideation, hospitalization drama bs. They dismissed you for failure to disclose, that is what you report.). Explain that your reading of the application request to disclose was flawed. Explain the juvenile event and the website issue. Make a BRIEF statement about the fact that these are no longer issues for you. Be done with it. BRIEF BRIEF BRIEF. Hope to GAWD they don't contact the dean of your prior school. When it comes down to it, if they call the dean and discuss your case, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE EFF YOU SAY, they are going to trust a well-respected colleague's impression over yours. Period.

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:52 pm

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Last edited by dontbeanidiot on Mon May 14, 2012 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:00 pm

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Last edited by dontbeanidiot on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:02 pm

barry wrote:Don't delve into the psych issue of it, if your old school said that wasn't the issue then you can claim that wasn't the issue. I think you can get a t14, I'm a UVa student and the admissions guys here are really understanding and cool I had an acquaintance with an issue and they totally helped him through it and his issue was much more serious. If I were you I would even call the admissions office after you apply in a friendly manner and explain the teen court and how it was somewhat of a misunderstanding I seriously think they will let u in with very little trouble.


TY, PM'd.

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:09 pm

Would it be appropriate to contact admissions departments and even meet with some of these schools in advance, to build any relationships with the ones I really want to attend? Not now, but it's something I could start thinking about in maybe, a year or so, I don't know. Maybe in the late summer when they're a little less busy.

Kimberly
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:45 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby Kimberly » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:13 pm

dontbeanidiot wrote:
Kimberly wrote:I do have some suggestions:

1. previous posts about working on yourself, improving your insight, improving yourself, etc should not be ignored. Stress management is a very important and a very difficult part of being a professional. Clients and colleagues are going to have a very difficult time trusting you and working with you if you buckle under pressure. Improving your self awareness and stress management skills is going to be imperative for you to flourish in the future. Take time to actively work on this... don't expend the passage of time to passively solve these issues. Further, you will have to show ACTIVE work on this in your next application cycle to enlist the confidence of admissions committees.

2. Find a way to take some personal responsibility for events that have transpired in your life. It is the only way to avoid similar drama in the future. You must understand how you have contributed.

3. I would reapply if you are really still interested in becoming a lawyer. I don't agree that you should not primarily because you have zero chance of success at becoming a lawyer if you don't reapply but you have at least some minimal chance at success if you reapply. I would only apply to schools that you would realistically attend, however.

4. When you reapply, do not use the psychological aspect. Be professional and NONEMOTIONAL about the explanation. No more than a paragraph. State that you were dismissed for nondisclosure of past criminal events (none of the suicidal ideation, hospitalization drama bs. They dismissed you for failure to disclose, that is what you report.). Explain that your reading of the application request to disclose was flawed. Explain the juvenile event and the website issue. Make a BRIEF statement about the fact that these are no longer issues for you. Be done with it. BRIEF BRIEF BRIEF. Hope to GAWD they don't contact the dean of your prior school. When it comes down to it, if they call the dean and discuss your case, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE EFF YOU SAY, they are going to trust a well-respected colleague's impression over yours. Period.


This is sound advice. Though, I have documentation from the school, which they've said they aren't keeping, to corroborate everything. I have a letter from the Dean of Student Services and e-mails exchanged in which we are discussing my medical leave of absence, and also discharge papers from the ER. That is if I was ever called out on it. I was considering introducing the issue (absent the documentation, that's an overload), but never stating that the school had considered this in its decision. I would have introduced it more to explain why the school found out in the first place and let them draw their conclusions. In the process I wouldn't blame my school for anything, but just state what happened, and also supplement it with, possibly, a LOR from a long-term psych, and the fact that I will have had a couple years of corporate work experience to demonstrate some stability. Any thoughts on this approach? Or just stay completely out of it?

On the one hand you say I need to "show ACTIVE work on this in your next application cycle to enlist the confidence of admissions committees," but what would I tell them I am working on if I fully omit the information about my psychology? Haha, my answer for this one sucks too, that's why I'm asking you guys. Like I noted before, I don't blame anyone for reporting me, and I don't blame the school for its decision, though I think it did it for the wrong reasons and using a very very wrong process. This is the time for me to own my life, and I'm trying my best, but in owning up to it, I'm unclear with how much I tell future schools, how do I show improvement if I am not telling them what I have improved? Or do I leave it to their imagination to decide what other factors went into play, when I've even had admissions counselors at other schools tell me they'd never heard of anyone being dismissed for something like that?


First, I would incorporate the notion that you have been "actively working on yourself" and that you have struggeled with *but overcome* psychosocial obtacles into a diversity statement of some sort. But, you should not get very specific or even mention the issues at your previous law school in the DS. This way, if they do call the dean of your previous law school, they can revisit the DS in that context and see that you have been actively engaged in overcoming your issues.

Second, keep the dismissal from law school addendum about (and ONLY about) the cited reason for dismissal! I cannot emphasize that enough. This addendum will obviously also address the previous arson and website events. That will cover ALL of your bases. The rest of your application should ONLY then focus on your accomplishments and brilliance.

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:50 pm

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Last edited by dontbeanidiot on Mon May 14, 2012 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

splitmuch
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby splitmuch » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:25 pm

Just wanna wish you good luck with everything.

nsbane
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby nsbane » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:57 pm

Was your website featured on On the Media?

lsatcrazy
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby lsatcrazy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:11 pm

Wow. Just wow. No way anyone will be able to predict your cycle. Keep in mind that the job of an admissions office is risk mitigation, and you pose a huge flameout ATL-post type risk, just based on how your past looks on paper.

09042014
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:06 pm

Where you the one who blackmailed their LWR partner?

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:59 pm

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Last edited by dontbeanidiot on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dontbeanidiot
Posts: 41
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby dontbeanidiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:26 pm

DF, basically.... no, lol. You got trolled. But feel free to PM me.
Last edited by dontbeanidiot on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sunynp
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Re: Dismissed from T14, want to go back to law school

Postby sunynp » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:52 pm

Is there any way to dissuade you from continuing on this path? My best advice is to let law go and get on with your life doing something else. Getting dismissed from your school may have turned out to be a good thing for you. The legal profession is in decline, why go through all of this just to go to law school? Getting a job as an attorney is a challenge for most law grads, for you to climb over all these hurdles just to be a prosecutor seems foolhardy to me.

If I were you, I would view this as water under the bridge and let it go. I would spend all the time, money and energy I would have to expend to get back into law school into doing something actually productive for my future. My best advice to you is to let this go.

If you have to do this, leave off your psychiatric history. You can at least say that you are protected by law from having to disclose. Just be aware that in some states you will have to disclose mental health issues for C&F.

Also, if you have to do this, contact a C&F attorney before you waste time doing anything else. Don't waste time talking to law school admission people until you know that you can be admitted to practice if you graduate and pass the bar.

One final thing, I know it isn't right but I wouldn't count on federal privacy regulations to protect me. You will never know if a confidential call is made from one school to another and discussions are held. I might be a skeptical person, but sometimes friends and colleagues share information even if it breaches the law.
Last edited by sunynp on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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