I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:33 pm

The OP's a bit over the top, but we need a little of this. The fact that you'll still occasionally hear phrases like "[she could be] a doctor or lawyer" IRL is comical, and dangerous.

There should be a public understanding that law is just another job--probably a little better than retail management, and a little worse than dental hygienist--not some god-like profession like medicine, where everyone has a job and even the lowest-paying specialties average six figures.

User avatar
johansantana21
Posts: 855
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:11 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby johansantana21 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:34 pm

flcath wrote:The OP's a bit over the top, but we need a little of this. The fact that you'll still occasionally hear phrases like "[she could be] a doctor or lawyer" IRL is comical, and dangerous.

There should be a public understanding that law is just another job--probably a little better than retail management, and a little worse than dental hygienist--not some god-like profession like medicine, where everyone has a job and even the lowest-paying specialties average six figures.


Caribbean MD bro.

User avatar
MTBike
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:19 am

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby MTBike » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:38 pm

flcath wrote:The OP's a bit over the top, but we need a little of this. The fact that you'll still occasionally hear phrases like "[she could be] a doctor or lawyer" IRL is comical, and dangerous.

There should be a public understanding that law is just another job--probably a little better than retail management, and a little worse than dental hygienist--not some god-like profession like medicine, where everyone has a job and even the lowest-paying specialties average six figures.


Hahaha there is so much wrong with this I dont even know where to begin...

User avatar
splitbrain
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:38 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby splitbrain » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:40 pm

johansantana21 wrote:
flcath wrote:The OP's a bit over the top, but we need a little of this. The fact that you'll still occasionally hear phrases like "[she could be] a doctor or lawyer" IRL is comical, and dangerous.

There should be a public understanding that law is just another job--probably a little better than retail management, and a little worse than dental hygienist--not some god-like profession like medicine, where everyone has a job and even the lowest-paying specialties average six figures.


Caribbean MD bro.

Jah, mon.

ryemanhattan
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:31 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby ryemanhattan » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:41 pm

EdgarWinter wrote:U.S. growth will probably slow down during the next couple years. Europe is entering a recession from which it will be difficult to extricate itself given numerous debt issues and the austerity-fever that is presently gripping the continent. China is facing nominal wage pressure and has moved to lower its growth target from 9-10% to 7%. This will hurt U.S. export markets and end up reducing some of the activity (M&A, etc.) that drives law-firm business. Doubt it will be a disaster but it probably won't be real rosy either.


good assessment.

BearsGrl
Posts: 1660
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:40 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:42 pm

EdgarWinter wrote:U.S. growth will probably slow down during the next couple years. Europe is entering a recession from which it will be difficult to extricate itself given numerous debt issues and the austerity-fever that is presently gripping the continent. China is facing nominal wage pressure and has moved to lower its growth target from 9-10% to 7%. This will hurt U.S. export markets and end up reducing some of the activity (M&A, etc.) that drives law-firm business. Doubt it will be a disaster but it probably won't be real rosy either.


My contention is that Europe has already been in a recession for some time and I "expect" that they will continue to coast. Austerity measures will matter for them with government related work, but businesses won't have to be austere. Businesses can continue to grow or not grow according to their industry. As for the US, state economies are turning around when you have the right leadership at the Governorship. I won't make this political, but states that were down economically are turning around. Not at an alarming rate, but at an expected rate. Plus, with a new President, the market will generally take that as a good move. The market will also turn around a bit when the SC comes back with a decision on the health care law.

China/Asian markets are an unknown.

shoeshine
Posts: 1241
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:58 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby shoeshine » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:47 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Unless you are expecting us to go into another recession, which I'm not.


LOL. We have a regular fucking economic expert here. Look around you bro. Dow ain't doing so hot as of late.


Umm while it is not a perfect indicator of hiring (especially legal hiring). You are wrong. The Dow is up 63% since the worst part of the recession.

--ImageRemoved--

The class we are looking at did OCI at the beginning of this graph.
Last edited by shoeshine on Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:48 pm

MTBike wrote:
flcath wrote:The OP's a bit over the top, but we need a little of this. The fact that you'll still occasionally hear phrases like "[she could be] a doctor or lawyer" IRL is comical, and dangerous.

There should be a public understanding that law is just another job--probably a little better than retail management, and a little worse than dental hygienist--not some god-like profession like medicine, where everyone has a job and even the lowest-paying specialties average six figures.


Hahaha there is so much wrong with this I dont even know where to begin...

That should just make it easier for you. I've really become morbidly curious about how defenders of the legal "profession" go about doing it. I ask this IRL sometimes, and I get (1) platitudes about honor, love of the game, etc., and (2) knee-jerk offended-ness that I would call the field we've "chosen" a toilet.

t14fanboy
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:51 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby t14fanboy » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:49 pm

johansantana21 wrote:
flcath wrote:The OP's a bit over the top, but we need a little of this. The fact that you'll still occasionally hear phrases like "[she could be] a doctor or lawyer" IRL is comical, and dangerous.

There should be a public understanding that law is just another job--probably a little better than retail management, and a little worse than dental hygienist--not some god-like profession like medicine, where everyone has a job and even the lowest-paying specialties average six figures.


Caribbean MD bro.


Bro it's never too late to do a 2 year post-bac and head off to Ross or St. George.

User avatar
MTBike
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:19 am

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby MTBike » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:52 pm

flcath wrote:
MTBike wrote:
flcath wrote:The OP's a bit over the top, but we need a little of this. The fact that you'll still occasionally hear phrases like "[she could be] a doctor or lawyer" IRL is comical, and dangerous.

There should be a public understanding that law is just another job--probably a little better than retail management, and a little worse than dental hygienist--not some god-like profession like medicine, where everyone has a job and even the lowest-paying specialties average six figures.


Hahaha there is so much wrong with this I dont even know where to begin...

That should just make it easier for you. I've really become morbidly curious about how defenders of the legal "profession" go about doing it. I ask this IRL sometimes, and I get (1) platitudes about honor, love of the game, etc., and (2) knee-jerk offended-ness that I would call the field we've "chosen" a toilet.

Image

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:59 pm

t14fanboy wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
flcath wrote:The OP's a bit over the top, but we need a little of this. The fact that you'll still occasionally hear phrases like "[she could be] a doctor or lawyer" IRL is comical, and dangerous.

There should be a public understanding that law is just another job--probably a little better than retail management, and a little worse than dental hygienist--not some god-like profession like medicine, where everyone has a job and even the lowest-paying specialties average six figures.


Caribbean MD bro.


Bro it's never too late to do a 2 year post-bac and head off to Ross or St. George.

If I don't get an offer this summer that's what I'll do.

I only need a 1-year post-bacc, and I think I'll be good to go for U.S. allopathic.

LawBrah
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby LawBrah » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:15 pm

flcath wrote:
t14fanboy wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
flcath wrote:The OP's a bit over the top, but we need a little of this. The fact that you'll still occasionally hear phrases like "[she could be] a doctor or lawyer" IRL is comical, and dangerous.

There should be a public understanding that law is just another job--probably a little better than retail management, and a little worse than dental hygienist--not some god-like profession like medicine, where everyone has a job and even the lowest-paying specialties average six figures.


Caribbean MD bro.


Bro it's never too late to do a 2 year post-bac and head off to Ross or St. George.

If I don't get an offer this summer that's what I'll do.

I only need a 1-year post-bacc, and I think I'll be good to go for U.S. allopathic.


You already taken the MCAT brah?

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:49 pm

LawBrah wrote:You already taken the MCAT brah?

Yeah. 33S (11/13/9) But I took it in like 2007 so I'd have to retake (scores expire after 2 years).

I did almost no prep. I actually don't agree that it's that hard of a test.

LawBrah
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby LawBrah » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:30 pm

flcath wrote:
LawBrah wrote:You already taken the MCAT brah?

Yeah. 33S (11/13/9) But I took it in like 2007 so I'd have to retake (scores expire after 2 years).

I did almost no prep. I actually don't agree that it's that hard of a test.


Nice. Yeah you could easily get a 36+ with 2 good months of prep. I'm probably going to do something similar but also apply to DO and DPM schools (don't want to do Carib...way too unstable) if my MCAT isn't high enough.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:51 pm

LawBrah wrote:
flcath wrote:
LawBrah wrote:You already taken the MCAT brah?

Yeah. 33S (11/13/9) But I took it in like 2007 so I'd have to retake (scores expire after 2 years).

I did almost no prep. I actually don't agree that it's that hard of a test.


Nice. Yeah you could easily get a 36+ with 2 good months of prep. I'm probably going to do something similar but also apply to DO and DPM schools (don't want to do Carib...way too unstable) if my MCAT isn't high enough.

You in law school?

LawBrah
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby LawBrah » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:00 pm

flcath wrote:
LawBrah wrote:
flcath wrote:
LawBrah wrote:You already taken the MCAT brah?

Yeah. 33S (11/13/9) But I took it in like 2007 so I'd have to retake (scores expire after 2 years).

I did almost no prep. I actually don't agree that it's that hard of a test.


Nice. Yeah you could easily get a 36+ with 2 good months of prep. I'm probably going to do something similar but also apply to DO and DPM schools (don't want to do Carib...way too unstable) if my MCAT isn't high enough.

You in law school?


Unfortunately :(

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:18 pm

LawBrah wrote:
flcath wrote:You in law school?


Unfortunately :(

Yeah no kidding. Fucking loser profession.

You waiting until after LS graduation? Are you 100%, or still on the fence about doing it?

Applying_Late
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:00 am

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Applying_Late » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:07 pm

And this is why I found premed stupid. Going into it for the money seems idiotic to me. If you want money go to a good undergrad, get a consulting/ib job, and run the world. Doctors are, in my opinion, and excluding some wild cases, glorified monkeys for non-surgery and glorified mechanics for surgery. What's worse is they are arrogant and complain they don't make money--well most of them can't get a job at mckinsey because they were too busy wasting their brain cells on rote memorization rather than thinking critically. Did I mention that I don't respect medicine? Also goodluck getting a residency after Ross, foreign med students not only need to pass at higher percentages for their usmle but also are implicitly barred/or have a huge uphill battle from/in getting the "best" specialties ie ROAD to happiness. I will stop my ranting here but stop calling doctors god-like, they are from it, and I will add that you will hate medicine if you go into it for the money.

Applying_Late
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:00 am

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Applying_Late » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:16 pm

flcath wrote:
LawBrah wrote:
flcath wrote:You in law school?


Unfortunately :(

Yeah no kidding. Fucking loser profession.

You waiting until after LS graduation? Are you 100%, or still on the fence about doing it?


I am sorry, are you in YSH? Have you been accepted to any of those? Regardless, good luck being respected in any field with that attitude, even medicine. Medicine doesn't exist to keep a relatively (depending on what your goals are in life) decent salary. Again opportunity cost for medicine is pretty bad unless you really want to be a doctor. I gather you don't have that passion (since you're on the fence about law), so I suppose your medicial future won't be as bright either--you'll hate school and your job, and you'll be pissed by the time you're done. It seems like you'd be a better fit in business. Go get money, do your models and bottles, and have fun. Why aren't you applyin for consulting firms or IB? They make a doctor's salary in their first years, not 4 years and residency after.

t14fanboy
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:51 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby t14fanboy » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:24 pm

ROFL. The poster above needs to take a chill pill. And also please get your facts straight. I-bankers and consultants "make a doctor's salary in their first years, not 4 years and residency after"? Do you know anybody working at Bain, BCG, etc.? It's more like 70k and you can always get laid-off. Even though you get shit pay as a resident, board-certified doctors usually make around 200k even in low-paying specialties like pediatrics and have great job security (although of course you could be making less and a lot of money goes to overhead and malpractice insurance).

Image

Applying_Late
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:00 am

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Applying_Late » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:35 pm

Pediatricians often make 100-150k, family med is worse, and int mes caps at 170-180. Yes MBB associates get paid 160k not to mention all the perks. And you can be an associate coming from an undergrad with a 4 yr degree ( caveat is that you got your master's). Analyst makes around 80-90 but dont forget perks and bonus. Engagement managers at McK already make 300, and that's after 2 yr associate. IB has great bonuses at good firms. Private equity and HF is also pretty great. Don't forget about exit options from consulting. Job security...what do you expect, to rest on your laurels? Medicine isn't so nice either. How about medical malpractice? Losing a license isn't too difficult. Do you want to be chair? Will you be a drifter in medicine, meaning changing hospitals often enough where you'll nver be respected by peers or get much from it. For the amount of time spent any economist will tell you that medicine shouldn't be chased for money.

BearsGrl
Posts: 1660
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:40 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:44 pm

Applying_Late wrote:Pediatricians often make 100-150k, family med is worse, and int mes caps at 170-180. Yes MBB associates get paid 160k not to mention all the perks. And you can be an associate coming from an undergrad with a 4 yr degree ( caveat is that you got your master's). Analyst makes around 80-90 but dont forget perks and bonus. Engagement managers at McK already make 300, and that's after 2 yr associate. IB has great bonuses at good firms. Private equity and HF is also pretty great. Don't forget about exit options from consulting. Job security...what do you expect, to rest on your laurels? Medicine isn't so nice either. How about medical malpractice? Losing a license isn't too difficult. Do you want to be chair? Will you be a drifter in medicine, meaning changing hospitals often enough where you'll nver be respected by peers or get much from it. For the amount of time spent any economist will tell you that medicine shouldn't be chased for money.


I've got a cousin that's in PA-C school. I've also got a couple cousins that have/will be entering the field of Physical Therapy. I wish I was into that stuff because my mom says that's a growing field and my cousin loves it and makes a bunch of money. Or at least he lives well. My mom was a nurse for 20 years and then went into the executive side of the industry.

I work in the health care industry (on the business side of it) and the face of health care is changing. Not sure what that necessarily means on the MD/DO side of stuff, but I know that individual practitioners are being eaten up and doctors are becoming more in-house and put into specialty teams. Like I said, I wish I was into all of that stuff because I could put up with the hours of it, but the precision of it scares me - haha.
Last edited by BearsGrl on Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gecko of Doom
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:32 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Gecko of Doom » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:46 pm

Oh, cool. This thread again.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby flcath » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:13 pm

Yeah, boomers aging is great for business, and Obamacare will actually increase salaries for the primary care specialities (it'll hurt the big-money specialties, but they were making obscene $$$). Of course, it'll be hard to separate that effect from the market wage inflation that occurs due to the physician shortage.

I think the high-stakes nature of the work is part of what makes doctors so admirable, and so justified in their arrogance. If any given lawyer just stopped working one day, (a) nothing would happen, since what we do just isn't very important, and (b) if he was doing something important (e.g., representing a capital defendant), he could be replaced by someone equally competent in a day (if need be) because there's a horrendous oversupply of literally thousands of unemployed lawyers to choose from.

It's really no wonder that even the most attractive, demure women will break their usual rules and fuck doctors on the first night.

Applying_Late
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:00 am

Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Applying_Late » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:32 pm

flcath wrote:Yeah, boomers aging is great for business, and Obamacare will actually increase salaries for the primary care specialities (it'll hurt the big-money specialties, but they were making obscene $$$). Of course, it'll be hard to separate that effect from the market wage inflation that occurs due to the physician shortage.

I think the high-stakes nature of the work is part of what makes doctors so admirable, and so justified in their arrogance. If any given lawyer just stopped working one day, (a) nothing would happen, since what we do just isn't very important, and (b) if he was doing something important (e.g., representing a capital defendant), he could be replaced by someone equally competent in a day (if need be) because there's a horrendous oversupply of literally thousands of unemployed lawyers to choose from.

It's really no wonder that even the most attractive, demure women will break their usual rules and fuck doctors on the first night.


LOL! How silly are you? Is anyone justified to be arrogant? Doctors are respected and glorified by those who have not had the ability to break a certain structure. Ask anyone who has produced anything of value what they think of MDs. You know if IT support were dead for a day we'd be in a worse position for the long-run than if doctors were to disappear for that one day. There are many professions which if gone for a day would do more damage than missing doctors. And what is high-stakes about family practice or something that isn't life/death. Btw, we could say business is more high-stakes hell professional sports could be more high-stakes. Also, I doubt a bunny would sleep faster with a doctor than hugh heffner. A doctor's salary, in the large scheme of things, is laughable.

Your comments remind me of a starry-eyed boor. But then again many who go into medicine go in for the wrong reasons, so you're just part of that silly trend. If you do medicine, best of luck to you, but I can't wait to see you swearing the day you're done with reaidency and are jealous of all the money-makers or your boss (CEO of the hospital with a simple BA) who tells you how to do your job. Ah, yes! I forgot, your arrogance cum ignorance will keep you trudging, polishing your senility as you spiral.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], mudiverse, Yahoo [Bot] and 8 guests