I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

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splitbrain
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby splitbrain » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:39 pm

Applying_Late wrote:So I found an interesting blog on med school loans, and well if you manage to go to YSH for law it certainly seems like you are grtting a better financial deal than this blogger (600k in debt). If anyone has time to calculate go ahead, I might do it later but typing from my phone again. So here is the link:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/04/rea ... -debt.html

Yeah my friend in med school haaaaaaaaates talking about the financial aspects.

ETA: Is it typical to defer payment in residency? Why not IBR?

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spleenworship
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby spleenworship » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:03 pm

splitbrain wrote:
Applying_Late wrote:So I found an interesting blog on med school loans, and well if you manage to go to YSH for law it certainly seems like you are grtting a better financial deal than this blogger (600k in debt). If anyone has time to calculate go ahead, I might do it later but typing from my phone again. So here is the link:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/04/rea ... -debt.html

Yeah my friend in med school haaaaaaaaates talking about the financial aspects.

ETA: Is it typical to defer payment in residency? Why not IBR?



I have little sympathy for the med school kids. Waaah waah, I have a 97% chance of getting a job that pays anywhere between a third and all of my expected debt per year, waah.

Outside of the t14, assuming paying sticker, you only have what- like a 60% chance of getting a job that covers 25% to 60% of debt per year. Obviously neither job will use all their salary for debts per year, but the comparison is notable given expected 10% debt service per year.

LawBrah
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby LawBrah » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:12 pm

There's a lot of misinformation here about physicians' salaries. Read em and weep, lawyers:

http://www.2shared.com/document/UriYDUj ... nsati.html

Image

Image

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MTBike
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby MTBike » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:20 pm

LawBrah wrote:There's a lot of misinformation here about physicians' salaries. Read em and weep, lawyers:

http://www.2shared.com/document/UriYDUj ... nsati.html



WTF are you doing on a law school forum then?!?!? You have absolutely nothing better to do with your time?

LawBrah
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby LawBrah » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 pm

MTBike wrote:
LawBrah wrote:There's a lot of misinformation here about physicians' salaries. Read em and weep, lawyers:

http://www.2shared.com/document/UriYDUj ... nsati.html



WTF are you doing on a law school forum then?!?!? You have absolutely nothing better to do with your time?


I'm in Law School (t6) but wish I wasn't. I'm doing what every person with a conscience should do - spread the word that law school is not worth entering and med is much, much better (even with Obamacare). The fact that people on here are still arguing this and spreading false reports of physicians' salaries is laughable.

Applying_Late
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Applying_Late » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:30 pm

Ok. Now go look at some partner salaries. I mean don't you see that a lot of entry lvl is pretty bad here? What i mean is 4 years of med + 2 yrs of res for int med and what 200k? Ok do biglaw for three years and you have 450 for the those three years. So res makea 50 k, so say the lawyer is ahead 350 k. Then what? Add 4 more yra, so that an add. 600k. Let's say int med doc works or those years at 200 k, which is 800k. So lawywr is still 150 ahead. But then the lawyer happens to make partner and immediately leaves the int med doc behind.

These numbers are pretty stupid, as the higher up you go in med for salary, often more time is involved.

And let's not even talk about business people (including those who have a jd).

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sundance95
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby sundance95 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:32 pm

LawBrah wrote:There's a lot of misinformation here about physicians' salaries. Read em and weep, lawyers:

http://www.2shared.com/document/UriYDUj ... nsati.html

If I'm reading these charts correctly, they are medians for ALL docs in these practice areas. I presume you're 'read them and weep' comment is comparing these to the starting biglaw market salary of $160,000. I'd bet that a similar chart that took the median income of all lawyers in given practice areas would be comparable in many practice segments. (e.g., M&A, complex commercial lit, etc.)

I'll grant that surgeons kill it, but then they are fucking surgeons. You're presuming that law students have an option, and choose law instead of surgery, which is absurd. Most law students don't have the skills to get a medical degree at all, let alone enter these highly competitive fields.

These charts are also useless without any information on how the information was collected. If this data was obtained via survey, then these numbers are just as reliable as the data law schools distribute regarding salaries nine months after graduation, which is to say not reliable at all.

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spleenworship
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby spleenworship » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:40 pm

LawBrah wrote:There's a lot of misinformation here about physicians' salaries. Read em and weep, lawyers:

http://www.2shared.com/document/UriYDUj ... nsati.html

Image

Image



After looking at median salaries I am at basically zero effing sympathy for MDs and their debt. Eff them.

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TheWeeIceMon
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby TheWeeIceMon » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:17 pm

Applying_Late wrote:Ok. Now go look at some partner salaries. I mean don't you see that a lot of entry lvl is pretty bad here? What i mean is 4 years of med + 2 yrs of res for int med and what 200k? Ok do biglaw for three years and you have 450 for the those three years. So res makea 50 k, so say the lawyer is ahead 350 k. Then what? Add 4 more yra, so that an add. 600k. Let's say int med doc works or those years at 200 k, which is 800k. So lawywr is still 150 ahead. But then the lawyer happens to make partner and immediately leaves the int med doc behind.

These numbers are pretty stupid, as the higher up you go in med for salary, often more time is involved.

And let's not even talk about business people (including those who have a jd).


Of course biglaw partners will make more than the average doctor. Comparing an extremely small percentage of law school grads to the average medical school graduate is pretty pointless.

For the record, TCR is to go to dental school.

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Gail
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Gail » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:22 pm

Go to hollywood and make it big. The top grossing actors make millions a year. MILLIONS

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skers
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby skers » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:02 pm

TheWeeIceMon wrote:
Applying_Late wrote:Ok. Now go look at some partner salaries. I mean don't you see that a lot of entry lvl is pretty bad here? What i mean is 4 years of med + 2 yrs of res for int med and what 200k? Ok do biglaw for three years and you have 450 for the those three years. So res makea 50 k, so say the lawyer is ahead 350 k. Then what? Add 4 more yra, so that an add. 600k. Let's say int med doc works or those years at 200 k, which is 800k. So lawywr is still 150 ahead. But then the lawyer happens to make partner and immediately leaves the int med doc behind.

These numbers are pretty stupid, as the higher up you go in med for salary, often more time is involved.

And let's not even talk about business people (including those who have a jd).


Of course biglaw partners will make more than the average doctor. Comparing an extremely small percentage of law school grads to the average medical school graduate is pretty pointless.

For the record, TCR is to go to dental school.


I'd have my choice of two different dental practices, no cost to me, if I only wasn't retarded at spatial reasoning. Sigh.

Applying_Late
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Applying_Late » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:13 pm

Gail wrote:Go to hollywood and make it big. The top grossing actors make millions a year. MILLIONS


Of course. If you go to YSH, you'll be dine. Heck even T14.

Btw, most MDs are in int medicine, and perhaps most in T14 are in biglaw. Given that TLS always talks about T14, I don't see how getting biglaw is going to be a worse deal.

People just think MDs make so much but in comparison their salaries pale to other sectors. Go be an actuary if anything, 8 years out of undergrad you easily make 300k and have a 9-5 job. And actuaial science isnt like ib or consulting where undergrad matters. If you pass the exams, you'll get the job.

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skers
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby skers » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:28 pm

Applying_Late wrote:
Gail wrote:Go to hollywood and make it big. The top grossing actors make millions a year. MILLIONS


Of course. If you go to YSH, you'll be dine. Heck even T14.

Btw, most MDs are in int medicine, and perhaps most in T14 are in biglaw. Given that TLS always talks about T14, I don't see how getting biglaw is going to be a worse deal.

People just think MDs make so much but in comparison their salaries pale to other sectors. Go be an actuary if anything, 8 years out of undergrad you easily make 300k and have a 9-5 job. And actuaial science isnt like ib or consulting where undergrad matters. If you pass the exams, you'll get the job.


I think the difference in medicine v. law is job security. MDs take out a shitton of debt and don't get paid shit for several years out of school and then start earning good bank. the 70% or so of t13ers that nab big law get paid well for ~5 years, then most get cut and have to transition to usually lower salaried jobs. Some win/some lose. With MD most win, though with an even nastier amount of debt.

Applying_Late
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Applying_Late » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:52 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
Applying_Late wrote:
Gail wrote:Go to hollywood and make it big. The top grossing actors make millions a year. MILLIONS


Of course. If you go to YSH, you'll be dine. Heck even T14.

Btw, most MDs are in int medicine, and perhaps most in T14 are in biglaw. Given that TLS always talks about T14, I don't see how getting biglaw is going to be a worse deal.

People just think MDs make so much but in comparison their salaries pale to other sectors. Go be an actuary if anything, 8 years out of undergrad you easily make 300k and have a 9-5 job. And actuaial science isnt like ib or consulting where undergrad matters. If you pass the exams, you'll get the job.


I think the difference in medicine v. law is job security. MDs take out a shitton of debt and don't get paid shit for several years out of school and then start earning good bank. the 70% or so of t13ers that nab big law get paid well for ~5 years, then most get cut and have to transition to usually lower salaried jobs. Some win/some lose. With MD most win, though with an even nastier amount of debt.


Because I have family members who are in medicine, I can say it's a little misleading. A good chunk of MDs can't get the "good" jobs, so they are stuck with things like int med/emergency med/fam practice. Moreover, if you fail any usmle, you are barred from practicing in certain states. Only a select amount of states allow multiple passes. So security is there but not as ideal as people make it out to be. I would say coming out of a T14 would be almost as secure as coming out of the any us md program. People complain so much that at a T14 someone might not get the ideal job but neither will the below avg md studeny. MDs also grade on for jobs, they also need interview skills to land the job. One of my family member's friends ha serious difficulty landing an int med job. The guy had horrible reviews during residency and didn't know how to communicate with people. Another guy who had great grades and a former D1 athlete was cited for being aggressive, forced to see a psyhiatrist, has a permanent record within the med community, and now has a lot of doors closed. Almost every lawyer i know would be cited for aggreasive behavior. Basically i was on the med track, was about to go to med achool, but because of how miserable I see doctors to be and how easy it is to get screwed, I decided law is a better option or me.

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TheWeeIceMon
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby TheWeeIceMon » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:02 pm

Because I have family members who are in medicine, I can say it's a little misleading. A good chunk of MDs can't get the "good" jobs, so they are stuck with things like int med/emergency med/fam practice. Moreover, if you fail any usmle, you are barred from practicing in certain states. Only a select amount of states allow multiple passes. So security is there but not as ideal as people make it out to be. I would say coming out of a T14 would be almost as secure as coming out of the any us md program. People complain so much that at a T14 someone might not get the ideal job but neither will the below avg md studeny. MDs also grade on for jobs, they also need interview skills to land the job. One of my family member's friends ha serious difficulty landing an int med job. The guy had horrible reviews during residency and didn't know how to communicate with people. Another guy who had great grades and a former D1 athlete was cited for being aggressive, forced to see a psyhiatrist, has a permanent record within the med community, and now has a lot of doors closed. Almost every lawyer i know would be cited for aggreasive behavior. Basically i was on the med track, was about to go to med achool, but because of how miserable I see doctors to be and how easy it is to get screwed, I decided law is a better option or me.


First of all, I wouldn't call jobs that still pay over 6 figues bad. Second, the bolded is false. Almost every state allows at least 3 attempts to pass each step, most allowing more than 3 or don't have restrictions. I believe the most strict states, which are Alaska and Idaho, have a 2 attempt max. Also, interview and interpersonal skills are needed in almost any career. Of course people who don't have those will struggle to get jobs. Lastly, just because you know of people who were terrible at their job or had behavorial issues doesn't mean it's easy for medical graduates to get screwed out of jobs.

/medschoolwhiteknight

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TheWeeIceMon
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby TheWeeIceMon » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:14 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
TheWeeIceMon wrote:
Applying_Late wrote:Ok. Now go look at some partner salaries. I mean don't you see that a lot of entry lvl is pretty bad here? What i mean is 4 years of med + 2 yrs of res for int med and what 200k? Ok do biglaw for three years and you have 450 for the those three years. So res makea 50 k, so say the lawyer is ahead 350 k. Then what? Add 4 more yra, so that an add. 600k. Let's say int med doc works or those years at 200 k, which is 800k. So lawywr is still 150 ahead. But then the lawyer happens to make partner and immediately leaves the int med doc behind.

These numbers are pretty stupid, as the higher up you go in med for salary, often more time is involved.

And let's not even talk about business people (including those who have a jd).


Of course biglaw partners will make more than the average doctor. Comparing an extremely small percentage of law school grads to the average medical school graduate is pretty pointless.

For the record, TCR is to go to dental school.


I'd have my choice of two different dental practices, no cost to me, if I only wasn't retarded at spatial reasoning. Sigh.


That sounds pretty tempting. I know a few kids who are inheriting family dental practices and they're sitting pretty, not having to worry about finding jobs, starting offices, etc. I don't know much about the dental school app process, but is spatial reasoning a big part of the DAT or something?

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skers
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby skers » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:20 pm

TheWeeIceMon wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:
TheWeeIceMon wrote:
Applying_Late wrote:Ok. Now go look at some partner salaries. I mean don't you see that a lot of entry lvl is pretty bad here? What i mean is 4 years of med + 2 yrs of res for int med and what 200k? Ok do biglaw for three years and you have 450 for the those three years. So res makea 50 k, so say the lawyer is ahead 350 k. Then what? Add 4 more yra, so that an add. 600k. Let's say int med doc works or those years at 200 k, which is 800k. So lawywr is still 150 ahead. But then the lawyer happens to make partner and immediately leaves the int med doc behind.

These numbers are pretty stupid, as the higher up you go in med for salary, often more time is involved.

And let's not even talk about business people (including those who have a jd).


Of course biglaw partners will make more than the average doctor. Comparing an extremely small percentage of law school grads to the average medical school graduate is pretty pointless.

For the record, TCR is to go to dental school.


I'd have my choice of two different dental practices, no cost to me, if I only wasn't retarded at spatial reasoning. Sigh.


That sounds pretty tempting. I know a few kids who are inheriting family dental practices and they're sitting pretty, not having to worry about finding jobs, starting offices, etc. I don't know much about the dental school app process, but is spatial reasoning a big part of the DAT or something?


Yeah, about a third of the test is the perceptual ability section.

Applying_Late
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:12 am

TheWeeIceMon wrote:
Because I have family members who are in medicine, I can say it's a little misleading. A good chunk of MDs can't get the "good" jobs, so they are stuck with things like int med/emergency med/fam practice. Moreover, if you fail any usmle, you are barred from practicing in certain states. Only a select amount of states allow multiple passes. So security is there but not as ideal as people make it out to be. I would say coming out of a T14 would be almost as secure as coming out of the any us md program. People complain so much that at a T14 someone might not get the ideal job but neither will the below avg md studeny. MDs also grade on for jobs, they also need interview skills to land the job. One of my family member's friends ha serious difficulty landing an int med job. The guy had horrible reviews during residency and didn't know how to communicate with people. Another guy who had great grades and a former D1 athlete was cited for being aggressive, forced to see a psyhiatrist, has a permanent record within the med community, and now has a lot of doors closed. Almost every lawyer i know would be cited for aggreasive behavior. Basically i was on the med track, was about to go to med achool, but because of how miserable I see doctors to be and how easy it is to get screwed, I decided law is a better option or me.


First of all, I wouldn't call jobs that still pay over 6 figues bad.

I think family practice and internal medicine careers are not worth it for the time invested. Many other jobs achieve that same goal quicker and you don't have the opportunity costs of medicine. So I didn't say that six-figure salary (in the 100k range) is bad--I am saying it's bad for doctors.

Second, the bolded is false. Almost every state allows at least 3 attempts to pass each step, most allowing more than 3 or don't have restrictions. I believe the most strict states, which are Alaska and Idaho, have a 2 attempt max.

You are right. What I said was a bit of a hyperbole, but I do want to say that it sucks if you have some strong connections to either of those states and can't practice there because you happened to fail step 1,2, or 3 more than three times (and it does happen). I'm unsure how it is in law, but my gamble is that you are not barred from practicing if it took you 4 times to pass the bar exam.

Also, interview and interpersonal skills are needed in almost any career. Of course people who don't have those will struggle to get jobs. Lastly, just because you know of people who were terrible at their job or had behavorial issues doesn't mean it's easy for medical graduates to get screwed out of jobs.

It depends on what your idea of screwed is. My idea of screwed is to have a permanent record for something that was questionable. What does it mean for someone to be "aggressive"? It could mean that the attending didn't like you and happened to find your behavior aggressive because you don't observe medical proprieties--you don't say good morning to nurses or address your superior coldly because you are set on maintaining efficiency. Having a blemish early in your medical career does not help you get a job, rather it only begs for an interviewer to ask what went wrong. To me, if you work under a jerk who is out to get you (or just had a bad day), and that jerk creates a permanent record for you, then it's not a very secure job. Whichever way you look at it, medicine often forces you to work with people, and if someone of power doesn't happen to like working with you, it can have some consequences. And sure, with a permanent record you might always have a job, but the ease of professional growth will be hampered. It just seems that if you are a bit of a clown, medicine could only hurt you; in law, being a clown might even make you a fun person.

/medschoolwhiteknight

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:39 am

TemporarySaint wrote:I think the difference in medicine v. law is job security. MDs take out a shitton of debt and don't get paid shit for several years out of school and then start earning good bank. the 70% or so of t13ers that nab big law get paid well for ~5 years, then most get cut and have to transition to usually lower salaried jobs. Some win/some lose. With MD most win, though with an even nastier amount of debt.


Blatant anti-Cornell trolling.

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PARTY
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby PARTY » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:40 am

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:I think the difference in medicine v. law is job security. MDs take out a shitton of debt and don't get paid shit for several years out of school and then start earning good bank. the 70% or so of t13ers that nab big law get paid well for ~5 years, then most get cut and have to transition to usually lower salaried jobs. Some win/some lose. With MD most win, though with an even nastier amount of debt.


Blatant anti-Cornell trolling.


what's a cornell?

collegebum1989
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby collegebum1989 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:51 pm

I think the entire comparison between MD and JD is sort of pointless because the only thing which both have in common is that they are classified as professional doctorate degrees. Within the fields themselves, the skills and personalities required to succeed in both are inherently different. Do you see failed premeds become lawyers, sure, but that doesn't mean they become a successful lawyer.

The perception of doctors are skewed by the media and the entire altruistic part of the medical career is also exaggerated. Coming from a family with both parents as MDs, and a sister as a third-year med student, I can tell you that the salaries represented in the chart and the lifestyles attributed to physicians do not represent the majority of physicians.

The average physician does rounds, teaches a little, reviews patient charts, and fills out forms for prescriptions, and attends faculty meetings. So in effect, being a doctor, is in no different from "another profession". You are paid for your medical expertise which is the compensation you receive for incurring debt for going to professional school. In fact, most physicians are so involved in their work, that they lack the ability to converse on other topics besides medicine. In order to be successful in medicine, you have to involve yourself in it, and that is the cost you pay for being named a Dr.

Likewise, the "saving the world" motto for physicians is also skewed because the ones who are actually experience life vs. death situations are not necessarily internists. These are people who've gone through 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 1 year of internship, 2-8 years of clinical training, plus another 2-5 years for specialization. So in effect, the reason why they are so heavily compensated is because they went through 15+ years of training after college. The salary along the way is nothing extraordinary until you have finished all your training. The amount of work these people have put into accomplishing this requires dedication, and as such are rightly deemed to be respected. However, your average practicing attending physician in a hospital does not see these ER type moments unless you actually go for these fields.

Not to mention that the demand for these super-specialties (neurology, invasive cardiology, anesthesiology, etc) are much much lower than internists, and pediatrics so the number of positions available for training and hospital positions are much smaller making them hyper-competitive to obtain. While the compensation may be upwards of 300k, if you normalize the salary by the amount of hours they work, you will see why people say medicine should not be undertaken for the money.

It's also obvious that in a LAW SCHOOL forum, you will see more pessimistic posts about going to law school. Go to a medical school forum and you will see the same type of responses. There are always people who are stressed out and regret going to professional school. It's actually ironic because Lawyer/Doctor may be perceived as the most prestigious fields, but only the lawyers and doctors themselves are involved in the fields to understand the negative aspects of pursuing a career in one position.

At the end of the day, you choose a career which will be economically valuable, and pursuing a professional degree is an economical decision which considers non-monetary factors as well. People who pursue a JD for money will be dissatisfied, just as likely as people who pursue a MD for the money. However, that doesn't necessitate that one is superior to the other.

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MTBike
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby MTBike » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:02 pm

collegebum1989 wrote:I think the entire comparison between MD and JD is sort of pointless because the only thing which both have in common is that they are classified as professional doctorate degrees. Within the fields themselves, the skills and personalities required to succeed in both are inherently different. Do you see failed premeds become lawyers, sure, but that doesn't mean they become a successful lawyer.

The perception of doctors are skewed by the media and the entire altruistic part of the medical career is also exaggerated. Coming from a family with both parents as MDs, and a sister as a third-year med student, I can tell you that the salaries represented in the chart and the lifestyles attributed to physicians do not represent the majority of physicians.

The average physician does rounds, teaches a little, reviews patient charts, and fills out forms for prescriptions, and attends faculty meetings. So in effect, being a doctor, is in no different from "another profession". You are paid for your medical expertise which is the compensation you receive for incurring debt for going to professional school. In fact, most physicians are so involved in their work, that they lack the ability to converse on other topics besides medicine. In order to be successful in medicine, you have to involve yourself in it, and that is the cost you pay for being named a Dr.

Likewise, the "saving the world" motto for physicians is also skewed because the ones who are actually experience life vs. death situations are not necessarily internists. These are people who've gone through 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 1 year of internship, 2-8 years of clinical training, plus another 2-5 years for specialization. So in effect, the reason why they are so heavily compensated is because they went through 15+ years of training after college. The salary along the way is nothing extraordinary until you have finished all your training. The amount of work these people have put into accomplishing this requires dedication, and as such are rightly deemed to be respected. However, your average practicing attending physician in a hospital does not see these ER type moments unless you actually go for these fields.

Not to mention that the demand for these super-specialties (neurology, invasive cardiology, anesthesiology, etc) are much much lower than internists, and pediatrics so the number of positions available for training and hospital positions are much smaller making them hyper-competitive to obtain. While the compensation may be upwards of 300k, if you normalize the salary by the amount of hours they work, you will see why people say medicine should not be undertaken for the money.

It's also obvious that in a LAW SCHOOL forum, you will see more pessimistic posts about going to law school. Go to a medical school forum and you will see the same type of responses. There are always people who are stressed out and regret going to professional school. It's actually ironic because Lawyer/Doctor may be perceived as the most prestigious fields, but only the lawyers and doctors themselves are involved in the fields to understand the negative aspects of pursuing a career in one position.

At the end of the day, you choose a career which will be economically valuable, and pursuing a professional degree is an economical decision which considers non-monetary factors as well. People who pursue a JD for money will be dissatisfied, just as likely as people who pursue a MD for the money. However, that doesn't necessitate that one is superior to the other.


That deserves a mother fucking +1

joetheplumber
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby joetheplumber » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:40 am

collegebum1989 wrote:I think the entire comparison between MD and JD is sort of pointless because the only thing which both have in common is that they are classified as professional doctorate degrees. Within the fields themselves, the skills and personalities required to succeed in both are inherently different. Do you see failed premeds become lawyers, sure, but that doesn't mean they become a successful lawyer.

The perception of doctors are skewed by the media and the entire altruistic part of the medical career is also exaggerated. Coming from a family with both parents as MDs, and a sister as a third-year med student, I can tell you that the salaries represented in the chart and the lifestyles attributed to physicians do not represent the majority of physicians.

The average physician does rounds, teaches a little, reviews patient charts, and fills out forms for prescriptions, and attends faculty meetings. So in effect, being a doctor, is in no different from "another profession". You are paid for your medical expertise which is the compensation you receive for incurring debt for going to professional school. In fact, most physicians are so involved in their work, that they lack the ability to converse on other topics besides medicine. In order to be successful in medicine, you have to involve yourself in it, and that is the cost you pay for being named a Dr.

Likewise, the "saving the world" motto for physicians is also skewed because the ones who are actually experience life vs. death situations are not necessarily internists. These are people who've gone through 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 1 year of internship, 2-8 years of clinical training, plus another 2-5 years for specialization. So in effect, the reason why they are so heavily compensated is because they went through 15+ years of training after college. The salary along the way is nothing extraordinary until you have finished all your training. The amount of work these people have put into accomplishing this requires dedication, and as such are rightly deemed to be respected. However, your average practicing attending physician in a hospital does not see these ER type moments unless you actually go for these fields.

Not to mention that the demand for these super-specialties (neurology, invasive cardiology, anesthesiology, etc) are much much lower than internists, and pediatrics so the number of positions available for training and hospital positions are much smaller making them hyper-competitive to obtain. While the compensation may be upwards of 300k, if you normalize the salary by the amount of hours they work, you will see why people say medicine should not be undertaken for the money.

It's also obvious that in a LAW SCHOOL forum, you will see more pessimistic posts about going to law school. Go to a medical school forum and you will see the same type of responses. There are always people who are stressed out and regret going to professional school. It's actually ironic because Lawyer/Doctor may be perceived as the most prestigious fields, but only the lawyers and doctors themselves are involved in the fields to understand the negative aspects of pursuing a career in one position.

At the end of the day, you choose a career which will be economically valuable, and pursuing a professional degree is an economical decision which considers non-monetary factors as well. People who pursue a JD for money will be dissatisfied, just as likely as people who pursue a MD for the money. However, that doesn't necessitate that one is superior to the other.


Do you have any links to a med school forum? would love to check out top-med-schools.com

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spleenworship
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby spleenworship » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:54 pm

joetheplumber wrote:Do you have any links to a med school forum? would love to check out top-med-schools.com


http://studentdoctor.net/


Those people are awful, FYI.

And I don't disagree with anything the poster you quoted wrote... I just have no sympathy because unlike us most of them make enough to service their debt

joetheplumber
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby joetheplumber » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:43 pm

spleenworship wrote:
joetheplumber wrote:Do you have any links to a med school forum? would love to check out top-med-schools.com


http://studentdoctor.net/


Those people are awful, FYI.

And I don't disagree with anything the poster you quoted wrote... I just have no sympathy because unlike us most of them make enough to service their debt


I've checked this site out, from the dental, pharm, and the general MD forums. They actually have a nicer and less jokes from what i've seen. Not a lotta of big law or bust or retake and ED to UVA analogies or anything about rankings. I did see 1-2 threads about salaries and debt and the economy, but overall, they seem to be optimistic unlike us TLSers about the legal economy. Seems like Pre-med is a "better choice" if you want just the $$.




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