I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School Forum

[Tom Joad]

Yeah, boomers aging is great for business, and Obamacare will actually increase salaries for the primary care specialities (it'll hurt the big-money specialties, but they were making obscene $$$). Of course, it'll be hard to separate that effect from the market wage inflation that occurs due to the physician shortage.

I think the high-stakes nature of the work is part of what makes doctors so admirable, and so justified in their arrogance. If any given lawyer just stopped working one day, (a) nothing would happen, since what we do just isn't very important, and (b) if he was doing something important (e.g., representing a capital defendant), he could be replaced by someone equally competent in a day (if need be) because there's a horrendous oversupply of literally thousands of unemployed lawyers to choose from.

It's really no wonder that even the most attractive, demure women will break their usual rules and fuck doctors on the first night.

LOL! How silly are you? Is anyone justified to be arrogant? Doctors are respected and glorified by those who have not had the ability to break a certain structure. Ask anyone who has produced anything of value what they think of MDs. You know if IT support were dead for a day we'd be in a worse position for the long-run than if doctors were to disappear for that one day. There are many professions which if gone for a day would do more damage than missing doctors. And what is high-stakes about family practice or something that isn't life/death. Btw, we could say business is more high-stakes hell professional sports could be more high-stakes. Also, I doubt a bunny would sleep faster with a doctor than hugh heffner. A doctor's salary, in the large scheme of things, is laughable.

Your comments remind me of a starry-eyed boor. But then again many who go into medicine go in for the wrong reasons, so you're just part of that silly trend. If you do medicine, best of luck to you, but I can't wait to see you swearing the day you're done with reaidency and are jealous of all the money-makers or your boss (CEO of the hospital with a simple BA) who tells you how to do your job. Ah, yes! I forgot, your arrogance cum ignorance will keep you trudging, polishing your senility as you spiral.

[Applying_Late]

Yah, mibby. I just love to take on idiot premeds or those who go into medicine for the wrong reasons or people who glorify medicine.

[flcath]

Yeah, boomers aging is great for business, and Obamacare will actually increase salaries for the primary care specialities (it'll hurt the big-money specialties, but they were making obscene $$$). Of course, it'll be hard to separate that effect from the market wage inflation that occurs due to the physician shortage.

I think the high-stakes nature of the work is part of what makes doctors so admirable, and so justified in their arrogance. If any given lawyer just stopped working one day, (a) nothing would happen, since what we do just isn't very important, and (b) if he was doing something important (e.g., representing a capital defendant), he could be replaced by someone equally competent in a day (if need be) because there's a horrendous oversupply of literally thousands of unemployed lawyers to choose from.

It's really no wonder that even the most attractive, demure women will break their usual rules and fuck doctors on the first night.

LOL! How silly are you? Is anyone justified to be arrogant? Doctors are respected and glorified by those who have not had the ability to break a certain structure. Ask anyone who has produced anything of value what they think of MDs. You know if IT support were dead for a day we'd be in a worse position for the long-run than if doctors were to disappear for that one day. There are many professions which if gone for a day would do more damage than missing doctors. And what is high-stakes about family practice or something that isn't life/death. Btw, we could say business is more high-stakes hell professional sports could be more high-stakes. Also, I doubt a bunny would sleep faster with a doctor than hugh heffner. A doctor's salary, in the large scheme of things, is laughable.

Your comments remind me of a starry-eyed boor. But then again many who go into medicine go in for the wrong reasons, so you're just part of that silly trend. If you do medicine, best of luck to you, but I can't wait to see you swearing the day you're done with reaidency and are jealous of all the money-makers or your boss (CEO of the hospital with a simple BA) who tells you how to do your job. Ah, yes! I forgot, your arrogance cum ignorance will keep you trudging, polishing your senility as you spiral.

You have kind of an odd writing style. Not bad, just unusual. ESL?

And dude, I'm trolling for the most part. I think the legal industry really could (maybe should? that's a different discussion) be a great profession, but the proliferation of law schools has turned it into a joke. I mean, in all seriousness, would even you agree with the proposition that the average doctor < the average lawyer in any of the following: employment stability, salary, passion for his work, respect from the community, career (geographical) portability, or irreplaceability?

[Applying_Late]

No I don't disagree with the average aspect.

No ESL, I am just a bad writer in general and especially from my iphone.

[sunynp]

OP - I'm not giving up on trying to dissuade people. All you can do is educate them and quite possibly you will take a little abuse for it. I think it is almost impossible to warn someone who doesn't want to listen. But maybe somewhere down the road something will click with them and they will realize you were right. At least people are starting to get the idea. The reduced number of applications shows that word about the true employment statistics is reaching people.
I'm not sure how many people on this forum should not be going to law school in the fall, probably at least a third or more, but they are going anyway.

I wouldn't give up. Just don't expect to be immediately successful.

[boredatwork]

I'm ok with the $75k I will be in debt when I leave my mid second tier school, but then I want to be a lawyer because I want to practice law not because the economy sucks or I want to be a millionaire. At the end of the day (to beat a dead horse that has been beaten so many times it no longer looks like a horse) it comes down to a lot of personal factors, point blank telling people not to go to law school is as asinine as telling everyone they should go to law school. The world doesn't work that way no one fits in a nice little category.

[LawBrah]

You in law school?

Unfortunately

Yeah no kidding. Fucking loser profession.

You waiting until after LS graduation? Are you 100%, or still on the fence about doing it?

Yeah I'm waiting till after graduation (2013) and then doing a 2 year post-bac (at a cheap state school) and take the MCAT during the 2nd year (hoping for 30+). Figure having a JD can't hurt when I apply to med school. At the very least I should get into a DPM school which won't be that bad.

[EdgarWinter]

.

[BearsGrl]

Yeah, boomers aging is great for business, and Obamacare will actually increase salaries for the primary care specialities (it'll hurt the big-money specialties, but they were making obscene $$$). Of course, it'll be hard to separate that effect from the market wage inflation that occurs due to the physician shortage.

I think the high-stakes nature of the work is part of what makes doctors so admirable, and so justified in their arrogance. If any given lawyer just stopped working one day, (a) nothing would happen, since what we do just isn't very important, and (b) if he was doing something important (e.g., representing a capital defendant), he could be replaced by someone equally competent in a day (if need be) because there's a horrendous oversupply of literally thousands of unemployed lawyers to choose from.

It's really no wonder that even the most attractive, demure women will break their usual rules and fuck doctors on the first night.

LOL! How silly are you? Is anyone justified to be arrogant? Doctors are respected and glorified by those who have not had the ability to break a certain structure. Ask anyone who has produced anything of value what they think of MDs. You know if IT support were dead for a day we'd be in a worse position for the long-run than if doctors were to disappear for that one day. There are many professions which if gone for a day would do more damage than missing doctors. And what is high-stakes about family practice or something that isn't life/death. Btw, we could say business is more high-stakes hell professional sports could be more high-stakes. Also, I doubt a bunny would sleep faster with a doctor than hugh heffner. A doctor's salary, in the large scheme of things, is laughable.

Your comments remind me of a starry-eyed boor. But then again many who go into medicine go in for the wrong reasons, so you're just part of that silly trend. If you do medicine, best of luck to you, but I can't wait to see you swearing the day you're done with reaidency and are jealous of all the money-makers or your boss (CEO of the hospital with a simple BA) who tells you how to do your job. Ah, yes! I forgot, your arrogance cum ignorance will keep you trudging, polishing your senility as you spiral.

Using an Oprah photo about being mad is kinda funny, given the fact that her OWN network is probably going to fold.

Plus, Obamacare is probably going to be stricken down and therefore the talking point mentioned is moot.

[Lawl Shcool]

You in law school?

Unfortunately

Yeah no kidding. Fucking loser profession.

You waiting until after LS graduation? Are you 100%, or still on the fence about doing it?

Yeah I'm waiting till after graduation (2013) and then doing a 2 year post-bac (at a cheap state school) and take the MCAT during the 2nd year (hoping for 30+). Figure having a JD can't hurt when I apply to med school. At the very least I should get into a DPM school which won't be that bad.

No chance this person is serious. Your plan is to complete 12 years of post college schooling before starting your career (LS 3 + BAC 2 + MS 7)? Ya, that seems like a recipe to avoid being debt ridden...

[BearsGrl]

U.S. growth will probably slow down during the next couple years. Europe is entering a recession from which it will be difficult to extricate itself given numerous debt issues and the austerity-fever that is presently gripping the continent. China is facing nominal wage pressure and has moved to lower its growth target from 9-10% to 7%. This will hurt U.S. export markets and end up reducing some of the activity (M&A, etc.) that drives law-firm business. Doubt it will be a disaster but it probably won't be real rosy either.

My contention is that Europe has already been in a recession for some time and I "expect" that they will continue to coast. Austerity measures will matter for them with government related work, but businesses won't have to be austere. Businesses can continue to grow or not grow according to their industry. As for the US, state economies are turning around when you have the right leadership at the Governorship. I won't make this political, but states that were down economically are turning around. Not at an alarming rate, but at an expected rate. Plus, with a new President, the market will generally take that as a good move. The market will also turn around a bit when the SC comes back with a decision on the health care law.

China/Asian markets are an unknown.

Everybody knows that Europe has been screwed up for awhile but this year marks a notable shift in terms of the number of major European economies that have started shrinking. Even Germany is now slowing industrial output. Where you really go wrong is in your idea that austerity only affects government and not business activity. Higher taxes and lower gov't spending will drain resources out of the private economy and this will make robust growth hard in the near term.

What is perhaps more worrisome is that the financial sector (ie, law firm clients) are going to be skittish as Europe confronts the reality that Greece has to default. Europe's planners are publicly saying Greece can pull it out by reversing their deep recession while at the same time hiking taxes and laying off thousands of people. That's a fantasyland and everyone knows it. At some point they'll stop kicking the can down the road and there will be a bit of a financial mess while the Greek default is sorted. I just hope that they either kick can past August 2013 (whoohoo OCI) or pick it up right now.

I also think you overestimate the impact of political events upon the economy. A Romney win won't gonna suddenly make everything rosy.

What I'm saying is that any country right now is going to have to lower taxes, deregulate and lower their government spending. I also meant that when you have a Republican moderate at the head of the US, who has worked in the financial sector, you're going to get businesses and institutions to have more faith in his leadership. That is my overarching point. It's not big business that is hurting right now. It's businesses at the local level.

I think that Europe already knows the Greece problem and therefore local and international firms have already accounted for/will account for the default that will happen. There is a big pile of mess abroad and as a firm, they should already be forecasting these potential outcomes either way.

[EdgarWinter]

.

[BearsGrl]

What I'm saying is that you don't understand economics. Especially if you think deregulation is some sort of panacea. Look up the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980, then look up 2007, and then tell me that that was a good idea.

Where'd I say that it was a panacea? You think I'm talking about only deregulation in the form of financial institutions? Because I wasn't. Far from it actually.

This topic doesn't have anything to do with the topic mentioned by the initial poster so there's no need to talk about it in this thread.

[LawBrah]

Yeah I'm waiting till after graduation (2013) and then doing a 2 year post-bac (at a cheap state school) and take the MCAT during the 2nd year (hoping for 30+). Figure having a JD can't hurt when I apply to med school. At the very least I should get into a DPM school which won't be that bad.

No chance this person is serious. Your plan is to complete 12 years of post college schooling before starting your career (LS 3 + BAC 2 + MS 7)? Ya, that seems like a recipe to avoid being debt ridden...

Postbac is really cheap because it's at a state school and my parents will help pay the minimal fees for it (no loans). Med school is only 4 years long, not 7. You get paid during residency (not much...around $50k but at least it's something). I'd rather do this path and be GUARANTEED to make at least $200k (if not $400k if I can match into orthopedics, radiology, anesthesiology, etc.) with great job security for 30+ years working as a physician as opposed to taking some shitlaw job for $80k with no job security or anything.

I really hope there are people who haven't stepped into law school who are reading this and will reconsider entering the cesspool that is the legal profession.

[PARTY]

Med school is only 4 years long, not 7. You get paid during residency (not much...around $50k but at least it's something). I'd rather do this path and be GUARANTEED to make at least $200k (if not $400k if I can match into orthopedics, radiology, anesthesiology, etc.) with great job security for 30+ years working as a physician as opposed to taking some shitlaw job for $80k with no job security or anything.

I really hope there are people who haven't stepped into law school who are reading this and will reconsider entering the cesspool that is the legal profession.

ah, but dude, fuck labs.

[flcath]

Yeah I'm waiting till after graduation (2013) and then doing a 2 year post-bac (at a cheap state school) and take the MCAT during the 2nd year (hoping for 30+). Figure having a JD can't hurt when I apply to med school. At the very least I should get into a DPM school which won't be that bad.

No chance this person is serious. Your plan is to complete 12 years of post college schooling before starting your career (LS 3 + BAC 2 + MS 7)? Ya, that seems like a recipe to avoid being debt ridden...

Postbac is really cheap because it's at a state school and my parents will help pay the minimal fees for it (no loans). Med school is only 4 years long, not 7. You get paid during residency (not much...around $50k but at least it's something). I'd rather do this path and be GUARANTEED to make at least $200k (if not $400k if I can match into orthopedics, radiology, anesthesiology, etc.) with great job security for 30+ years working as a physician as opposed to taking some shitlaw job for $80k with no job security or anything.

I really hope there are people who haven't stepped into law school who are reading this and will reconsider entering the cesspool that is the legal profession.

Yup. Residency (after year 1) pays as much as shitlaw.

And paying off massive debt with your even more massive salary is the doctors' way of life. Plus--and this is all that really matters--you'll be a DOCTOR, not a lawyer. No more having to feel embarrassed every time someone asks you what you do for a living.

[TheWeeIceMon]

Yeah I'm waiting till after graduation (2013) and then doing a 2 year post-bac (at a cheap state school) and take the MCAT during the 2nd year (hoping for 30+). Figure having a JD can't hurt when I apply to med school. At the very least I should get into a DPM school which won't be that bad.

No chance this person is serious. Your plan is to complete 12 years of post college schooling before starting your career (LS 3 + BAC 2 + MS 7)? Ya, that seems like a recipe to avoid being debt ridden...

Postbac is really cheap because it's at a state school and my parents will help pay the minimal fees for it (no loans). Med school is only 4 years long, not 7. You get paid during residency (not much...around $50k but at least it's something). I'd rather do this path and be GUARANTEED to make at least $200k (if not $400k if I can match into orthopedics, radiology, anesthesiology, etc.) with great job security for 30+ years working as a physician as opposed to taking some shitlaw job for $80k with no job security or anything.

I really hope there are people who haven't stepped into law school who are reading this and will reconsider entering the cesspool that is the legal profession.

This sounds familiar, though I never actually ended up in law school. I'll be applying to medical schools in a couple months after doing an informal post-bac for a year, since I was missing a few of the pre-reqs (was an engineerig major). I'm definitely happy I made the switch, even if I lost a year or two figuring out what I wanted to do with my life. To be honest, though it wasn't the primary reason, some of the collective wisdom of TLS played a role in dissauding me from pursuing law as a career.

Good luck bro, and don't forget about getting the necessary ECs before you apply. Med schools care much more about them than law schools do.

[shoeshine]

Postbac is really cheap because it's at a state school and my parents will help pay the minimal fees for it (no loans). Med school is only 4 years long, not 7. You get paid during residency (not much...around $50k but at least it's something). I'd rather do this path and be GUARANTEED to make at least $200k (if not $400k if I can match into orthopedics, radiology, anesthesiology, etc.) with great job security for 30+ years working as a physician as opposed to taking some shitlaw job for $80k with no job security or anything.

I really hope there are people who haven't stepped into law school who are reading this and will reconsider entering the cesspool that is the legal profession.

Good luck making 400k or even 200k after socialized medicine kicks in. Yeah primary care doctors salaries will go up but specialties will make half what they make now and you will have a ton of debt.

Why do you think Medical school is free in every country that has socialized medicine? Hopefully they do some sort of loan forgiveness program once it kicks in or you (and many other people just starting med school) will be the new working poor.

[Lawl Shcool]

Yeah I'm waiting till after graduation (2013) and then doing a 2 year post-bac (at a cheap state school) and take the MCAT during the 2nd year (hoping for 30+). Figure having a JD can't hurt when I apply to med school. At the very least I should get into a DPM school which won't be that bad.

No chance this person is serious. Your plan is to complete 12 years of post college schooling before starting your career (LS 3 + BAC 2 + MS 7)? Ya, that seems like a recipe to avoid being debt ridden...

Postbac is really cheap because it's at a state school and my parents will help pay the minimal fees for it (no loans). Med school is only 4 years long, not 7. You get paid during residency (not much...around $50k but at least it's something). I'd rather do this path and be GUARANTEED to make at least $200k (if not $400k if I can match into orthopedics, radiology, anesthesiology, etc.) with great job security for 30+ years working as a physician as opposed to taking some shitlaw job for $80k with no job security or anything.

I really hope there are people who haven't stepped into law school who are reading this and will reconsider entering the cesspool that is the legal profession.

Yup. Residency (after year 1) pays as much as shitlaw.

And paying off massive debt with your even more massive salary is the doctors' way of life. Plus--and this is all that really matters--you'll be a DOCTOR, not a lawyer. No more having to feel embarrassed every time someone asks you what you do for a living.

This is such garbage. I'm not sure why you have such a hard-on for doctors but I am far from embarrassed to tell people I am a lawyer. The only people who know about the over supply of lawyers, are law students who can't find jobs. Being a lawyer is still prestigious (can't believe I just typed that - if you're in it for prestige, you're already losing).

EDIT - this is a bit harsh of me but the attitude of the people in this thread that are considering finishing law school and then doing med school is too dumb to not warrant a response. You are obviously feeling inadequate next to your classmates and are using a disfavor for the profession as an excuse to try and sound superior with the "well i'm gonna be a doctor HA!" attitude.

[dingbat]

Why do you think Medical school is free in every country that has socialized medicine? .

Because most countries that have socialized medicine also have socialized education.
and thats not even taking into account that the above statement is simply untrue

[shoeshine]

Why do you think Medical school is free in every country that has socialized medicine? .

Because most countries that have socialized medicine also have socialized education.
and thats not even taking into account that the above statement is simply untrue

Yes but could they afford to live comfortably and pay 200K in loans back with the salaries they make as doctors?

[dingbat]

What I'm saying is that any country right now is going to have to lower taxes, deregulate and lower their government spending.

This is not only a gross exageration, but also grossly inaccurate.

[dingbat]

Why do you think Medical school is free in every country that has socialized medicine? .

Because most countries that have socialized medicine also have socialized education.
and thats not even taking into account that the above statement is simply untrue

Yes but could they afford to pay 200K in loans back without socialized education?

If they have socialized education, they shouldn't have $200k in loans

[TheWeeIceMon]

Postbac is really cheap because it's at a state school and my parents will help pay the minimal fees for it (no loans). Med school is only 4 years long, not 7. You get paid during residency (not much...around $50k but at least it's something). I'd rather do this path and be GUARANTEED to make at least $200k (if not $400k if I can match into orthopedics, radiology, anesthesiology, etc.) with great job security for 30+ years working as a physician as opposed to taking some shitlaw job for $80k with no job security or anything.

I really hope there are people who haven't stepped into law school who are reading this and will reconsider entering the cesspool that is the legal profession.

Good luck making 400k or even 200k after socialized medicine kicks in. Yeah primary care doctors salaries will go up but specialties will make half what they make now and you will have a ton of debt.

Why do you think Medical school is free in every country that has socialized medicine? Hopefully they do some sort of loan forgiveness program once it kicks in or you (and many other people just starting med school) will be the new working poor.

LOL at doctors being the "new working poor". Sure, the new laws, assuming they are implemented, will more than likely bring the gap between primary care and specialist salaries closer together, but to say that specialists will make half of what they previously earned is ridiculous. I seriously doubt current and future medical student will have problems paying off loans when they become attendings.

[shoeshine]

Why do you think Medical school is free in every country that has socialized medicine? .

Because most countries that have socialized medicine also have socialized education.
and thats not even taking into account that the above statement is simply untrue

Yes but could they afford to pay 200K in loans back without socialized education?

If they have socialized education, they shouldn't have $200k in loans

Read my edited response. You understand what I meant.