I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

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LawBrah
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I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby LawBrah » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:53 am

It gotten to be too much. I feel like Noah before the flood. If these kids want to come to law school, let them. Hopefully Law School Transparency, the new and hopefully improved ABA disclosure mandates, and New York Times coverage will be enough to keep the fish at bay.

For those of you willing to listen, only attend if it's HYS or t14 at FULL scholarship.

Exhibit A: http://www.law.umich.edu/careers/classs ... stats.aspx

Gibson: 10 in '09 to 2 in '11

Kirkland: 15 to 2

Latham: 11 to 3

Skadden: 11 to 0

Non-legal employment for c/o '11: *Actor, dentist's office, independent contractor, pharmacy, restaurant, sheep farmer, chief writer at Univision, startup, e-commerce consulting, Thomson Reuters, nonlaw university faculty position (2)

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jrthor10
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby jrthor10 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:08 am

When I saw the thread title, a little part of me hoped this was something from MTal. Alas, TLS is not that lucky.

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ColtsFan88
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby ColtsFan88 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:13 am

LawBrah wrote:It gotten to be too much. I feel like Noah before the flood. If these kids want to come to law school, let them. Hopefully Law School Transparency, the new and hopefully improved ABA disclosure mandates, and New York Times coverage will be enough to keep the fish at bay.

For those of you willing to listen, only attend if it's HYS or t14 at FULL scholarship.

Exhibit A: http://www.law.umich.edu/careers/classs ... stats.aspx

Gibson: 10 in '09 to 2 in '11

Kirkland: 15 to 2

Latham: 11 to 3

Skadden: 11 to 0

Non-legal employment for c/o '11: *Actor, dentist's office, independent contractor, pharmacy, restaurant, sheep farmer, chief writer at Univision, startup, e-commerce consulting, Thomson Reuters, nonlaw university faculty position (2)


Wait, you're telling me that SA classes dropped drastically when the bottom fell out of the economy? Get the fuck out of here.

As scary as those numbers are, they aren't all that relevant to today. Unless you are expecting us to go into another recession, which I'm not.

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MTBike
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby MTBike » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:14 am

This is a flame... don't feed him

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Old Gregg
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:47 pm

Unless you are expecting us to go into another recession, which I'm not.


LOL. We have a regular fucking economic expert here. Look around you bro. Dow ain't doing so hot as of late.

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I.P. Daly
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby I.P. Daly » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:53 pm

LawBrah wrote:sheep farmer


I assume that alum is trolling...

nkp007
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby nkp007 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:54 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Unless you are expecting us to go into another recession, which I'm not.


LOL. We have a regular fucking economic expert here. Look around you bro. Dow ain't doing so hot as of late.


The Dow isn't a good short-term indicator of U.S. economic growth. Stock traders panic when a mouse coughs.

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MTBike
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby MTBike » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:57 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Unless you are expecting us to go into another recession, which I'm not.


LOL. We have a regular fucking economic expert here. Look around you bro. Dow ain't doing so hot as of late.


Expecting to go into another recession is just as much of an assumption as expecting not to. Hypocrite.

BearsGrl
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:03 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Unless you are expecting us to go into another recession, which I'm not.


LOL. We have a regular fucking economic expert here. Look around you bro. Dow ain't doing so hot as of late.


I still earned money in my portfolio. Plus, the Dow is taking into account foreign concerns.

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Ludo!
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Ludo! » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:03 pm

jrthor10 wrote:When I saw the thread title, a little part of me hoped this was something from MTal. Alas, TLS is not that lucky.


Hahaha I thought the same exact thing.

BearsGrl
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:03 pm

MTBike wrote:This is a flame... don't feed him


+1

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bk1
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby bk1 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:08 pm

Image

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FryBreadPower
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby FryBreadPower » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:12 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:When I saw the thread title, a little part of me hoped this was something from MTal. Alas, TLS is not that lucky.


Hahaha I thought the same exact thing.

ryemanhattan
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby ryemanhattan » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:18 pm

BearsGrl wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Unless you are expecting us to go into another recession, which I'm not.


LOL. We have a regular fucking economic expert here. Look around you bro. Dow ain't doing so hot as of late.


I still earned money in my portfolio. Plus, the Dow is taking into account foreign concerns.


So... foreign concerns don't have any bearing on the US economy, and therefore job prospects for law grads?

Newsflash: the breakup of the EU, a major war between Israel and Iran, or (obviously) another banking crisis, would all fuck with job prospects for law grads. Any law school risk/reward analysis that doesn't take into account external factors like these is going to lead to poor decision making.

ryemanhattan
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby ryemanhattan » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:24 pm

MTBike wrote:This is a flame... don't feed him


idiot. Posts like theses are part of a legitimate debate that everyone considering law school should think about.

The majority of students enrolling in law school are making a financial blunder. Some, catastrophically so.

While I think "HYS or T14 on full ride or don't go" is excessively pessimistic, the underlying concerns are no joke.

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FryBreadPower
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby FryBreadPower » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:27 pm

ryemanhattan wrote:
MTBike wrote:This is a flame... don't feed him


idiot. Posts like theses are part of a legitimate debate that everyone considering law school should think about.

The majority of students enrolling in law school are making a financial blunder. Some, catastrophically so.

While I think "HYS or T14 on full ride or don't go" is excessively pessimistic, the underlying concerns are no joke.


But you misunderstand why people say Flame. At this point, anyone with half a brain on TLS understands all of the inherent risks -- I would actually go so far as to say that a good proportion of sentiments are trending into pessimistic territory. People say flame either because A. we are beating a dead horse at this point or B. saying going to a school like NYU/Penn/Berkeley/etc etc with $45-90k is a horrendous idea is getting real close to lol territory.

redbullvodka
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby redbullvodka » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:28 pm

quote="ryemanhattan"]
BearsGrl wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Unless you are expecting us to go into another recession, which I'm not.


LOL. We have a regular fucking economic expert here. Look around you bro. Dow ain't doing so hot as of late.


I still earned money in my portfolio. Plus, the Dow is taking into account foreign concerns.


So... foreign concerns don't have any bearing on the US economy, and therefore job prospects for law grads?

Newsflash: the breakup of the EU, a major war between Israel and Iran, or (obviously) another banking crisis, would all fuck with job prospects for law grads. Any law school risk/reward analysis that doesn't take into account external factors like these is going to lead to poor decision making.[/quote]

1. The EU is not going to break up.
2. The legal economy is much more prepared for a recession of this magnitude this time around -- the majority have not leveraged themselves back to 06-07 levels.
3. The EU is not going to break up.
4. This recession was the first to truly damage prospects at the top because it directly hit financial markets and banks -- the institutions that allow BigLaw firms, in many cases, to extend themselves so much. A run of the mill recession is not going to do to the legal market what '08-nowish has done.

Chill. Things are not booming like they were in the past, but there's little indication that things are teetering on going south either.[

ryemanhattan
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby ryemanhattan » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:06 pm

FryBreadPower wrote:
But you misunderstand why people say Flame. At this point, anyone with half a brain on TLS understands all of the inherent risks -- I would actually go so far as to say that a good proportion of sentiments are trending into pessimistic territory. People say flame either because A. we are beating a dead horse at this point or B. saying going to a school like NYU/Penn/Berkeley/etc etc with $45-90k is a horrendous idea is getting real close to lol territory.



Fair enough... although it's those w/out half a brain I'm somewhat concerned about. And yes, going to any of those schools with that sort of scholarship would be a fine option for most students. But even on this site, the very large majority of applicants do not have such rosy options.

redbullvodka wrote:
1. The EU is not going to break up.
2. The legal economy is much more prepared for a recession of this magnitude this time around -- the majority have not leveraged themselves back to 06-07 levels.
3. The EU is not going to break up.
4. This recession was the first to truly damage prospects at the top because it directly hit financial markets and banks -- the institutions that allow BigLaw firms, in many cases, to extend themselves so much. A run of the mill recession is not going to do to the legal market what '08-nowish has done.

Chill. Things are not booming like they were in the past, but there's little indication that things are teetering on going south either.[


Yes, it is highly unlikely that the EU will break up. I think an Israeli strike on Iran is also rather unlikely. The point I'm trying to make is that assuming that the overall US economy, and law grad prospects, will improve over the next three years, is idiotic. I would bet even money on it, sure, but to not take into account mahor external factors, just because there is little indication that things are "teetering on going south" is shortsighted.

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Tom Joad
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:07 pm

LawBrah wrote:sheep farmer

Elitist.

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johansantana21
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby johansantana21 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:08 pm

4/10

redbullvodka
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby redbullvodka » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:13 pm

I don't think what I'm saying is shortsighted at all...whether it's a good thing or not normatively, this economy moves in cycles. There's a better chance that we'll see three years of improvement than 3 years of decay, and I'd even say a better chance than 3 years of stagnation. There's also a solid chance at the end of 3-5 years of growth we see another, albeit less shitty, downturn.

But it's important to note that while retrospective vision is 20/20, there were pretty clear signs that the economy was about to burst in '08. Look at yield curves and the like from that time period, and you'll see a lot of bad news. As a reuslt, economists world wide have been much more vigilant in this post-recession world, and those same pernicious symptoms are simply not there right now.

t14fanboy
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby t14fanboy » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:16 pm

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BearsGrl
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:16 pm

ryemanhattan wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Unless you are expecting us to go into another recession, which I'm not.


LOL. We have a regular fucking economic expert here. Look around you bro. Dow ain't doing so hot as of late.


I still earned money in my portfolio. Plus, the Dow is taking into account foreign concerns.


So... foreign concerns don't have any bearing on the US economy, and therefore job prospects for law grads?

Newsflash: the breakup of the EU, a major war between Israel and Iran, or (obviously) another banking crisis, would all fuck with job prospects for law grads. Any law school risk/reward analysis that doesn't take into account external factors like these is going to lead to poor decision making.


Where did I imply any different? If you are doubting being in law school or entering law school at this stage of the cycle, then don't go. Seems logical.

BearsGrl
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:23 pm

redbullvodka wrote:I don't think what I'm saying is shortsighted at all...whether it's a good thing or not normatively, this economy moves in cycles. There's a better chance that we'll see three years of improvement than 3 years of decay, and I'd even say a better chance than 3 years of stagnation. There's also a solid chance at the end of 3-5 years of growth we see another, albeit less shitty, downturn.

But it's important to note that while retrospective vision is 20/20, there were pretty clear signs that the economy was about to burst in '08. Look at yield curves and the like from that time period, and you'll see a lot of bad news. As a reuslt, economists world wide have been much more vigilant in this post-recession world, and those same pernicious symptoms are simply not there right now.


This is where I was going. Skepticism can be healthy, if you use it as merely that. If you are a current student and are skeptical, well then maybe you don't want to put in that effort. Only a person that is in the mix can make that decision for himself/herself.

Didn't know my generic statement (since I just received my market statement) was going to cause such a problem. I also didn't say that I was making mucho bucks on the Dow. The Dow operates in cycles and like law school, you invest for the long haul and not for the short-term gain. Some will think opposite.

EdgarWinter
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Re: I've stopped dissuading kids from going to Law School

Postby EdgarWinter » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:31 pm

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Last edited by EdgarWinter on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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