Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
CF_ALT
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby CF_ALT » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:41 pm

.
Last edited by CF_ALT on Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Bronx Bum
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:02 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby Bronx Bum » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:51 pm

Too long so I only skimmed. But I think you need to disclose everything. You don't want it to bite you on the C&F.

CF_ALT
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby CF_ALT » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:04 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:Too long so I only skimmed. But I think you need to disclose everything. You don't want it to bite you on the C&F.


Thanks! I certainly plan on disclosing this in all my applications. I'm more interested in suggestions people might have beyond just the typical make sure you disclose advice.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:16 pm

Disclose. Doesn't seem to be a major misconduct issue & your writing tone shows acceptance of responsibility & contrition.

However, since you are seeking suggestions beyond recommendations to fully disclose, then consider full disclosure using the language in question. :D

CF_ALT
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby CF_ALT » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:23 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Disclose. Doesn't seem to be a major misconduct issue & your writing tone shows acceptance of responsibility & contrition.

However, since you are seeking suggestions beyond recommendations to fully disclose, then consider full disclosure using the language in question. :D


I would, but after that incident I swore I would never use the language again....ever!

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:28 pm

The good news then is that law school casebooks, assignments and lectures are almost always in English.

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby MrAnon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:28 pm

just disclose everything and don't worry about it too much. People with C&F issues get into law schools and become lawyers all the time. Seriously. Unless U.S. News starts scoring points against schools for admitting C&F issues then it won't affect your admissions too much. Now, that should make you pause and consider what it is you are undertaking...does it really make sense to go to a law school that would accept someone with plagiarism issues? That's for you to discover on your own.

CF_ALT
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby CF_ALT » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:45 pm

MrAnon wrote:just disclose everything and don't worry about it too much. People with C&F issues get into law schools and become lawyers all the time. Seriously. Unless U.S. News starts scoring points against schools for admitting C&F issues then it won't affect your admissions too much. Now, that should make you pause and consider what it is you are undertaking...does it really make sense to go to a law school that would accept someone with plagiarism issues? That's for you to discover on your own.


Thanks for the food for thought. I'm going to play this upcoming cycle out and see how it goes.

CF_ALT
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby CF_ALT » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:42 pm

Anyone want to take the opposite position, and say that this will really hurt my application?

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby MrAnon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:38 pm

CF_ALT wrote:Anyone want to take the opposite position, and say that this will really hurt my application?


it won't. that's the thing. Law school admissions isn't difficult. Plagiarists and even murderers have enrolled in the past. The schools want money and LSAT/GPA.

splbagel
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:53 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby splbagel » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:45 pm

CF_ALT wrote:Anyone want to take the opposite position, and say that this will really hurt my application?


Honestly, your explanation sounds good. You made a stupid mistake but you didn't intend to cheat, you were honest with your school, you accepted responsibility and punishment, and now you're ready to be honest on your application. To me, this makes you come off as mature.

I have no clue if admissions staff will see it the same way, but it's definitely a much better situation than intentionally lifting passages without attribution or cheating on an exam.

ETA: You might want to double check with the Dean that whatever the school has on record for you matches your story -- it would help if the university officially says that they determined that you did not intend to plagiarize and that you were honest and responsible, etc.

CF_ALT
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby CF_ALT » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:29 pm

splbagel wrote:
CF_ALT wrote:Anyone want to take the opposite position, and say that this will really hurt my application?


Honestly, your explanation sounds good. You made a stupid mistake but you didn't intend to cheat, you were honest with your school, you accepted responsibility and punishment, and now you're ready to be honest on your application. To me, this makes you come off as mature.

I have no clue if admissions staff will see it the same way, but it's definitely a much better situation than intentionally lifting passages without attribution or cheating on an exam.

ETA: You might want to double check with the Dean that whatever the school has on record for you matches your story -- it would help if the university officially says that they determined that you did not intend to plagiarize and that you were honest and responsible, etc.


Thanks for your input! I plan on scheduling an appointment with the Dean of Students at the beginning of summer to confirm the details of the incident.

Does anyone else have any input on the matter?

nsbane
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby nsbane » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:03 am

I'm assuming that the explanation you've written is a rough draft of the addendum you will send. Maybe I'm a hardass, but these sentences sounded weasely to me:
CF_ALT wrote:I didn't realize it at the time, but my writing had borrowed too many phrases and keywords from the passages I had read.
Based on your explanation, I don't believe this. While it is within the realm of possibility that it was all accidental, you admit that the range of plagiarism was so great you were vulnerable to a much more severe punishment. I also don't think your teacher or TA ultimately believed you because, while they may have been polite and "understanding" with you during your meeting, they pursued action against you as a cheater.

I suggest taking out the "I didn't realize it." In one short sentence, I would say you had a brief lapse of judgement that allowed you to slip into wishful thinking that what you were borrowing was within fair use, but when you were confronted with the entirety of what you did, you were embarrassed and ashamed. A brief sentence like that 1) explains how & why you did it; 2) accepts responsibility for your actions; 3) expresses remorse. As of right now, I don't accept your explanation of how it happened: I don't understand how you can "accidentally" copy so much material online that your teacher sits with you in a meeting and says you will be academically sanctioned.
CF_ALT wrote:I admitted that, although I had not intended to, I had taken liberties with my writing that I should not have.
Weasel phrase.
CF_ALT wrote:Despite lack of intentions, the reality of the situation is that I did not properly cite a source in my writing.
See above.
CF_ALT wrote:In hindsight, I probably could have appeal the misconduct or at least had a formal hearing on it, but I didn't want to compound the issue with a frivolous appeal.
Look, when I applied to school, I had to explain away some embarrassing things in my background (altho it wasn't academic dishonesty). I took the 20 minutes to write this to help, not to tear you down. I want to point out that when I looked into law school admission books with chapters on admitting this stuff, the thing they hammered home was accepting responsibility and expressing remorse.

This sentence is the only one where you express remorse ... not for doing what you did, but for not challenging your unjust charge, because at the time you didn't want to complicate things. If you believed you were innocent, you should have argued for it then, instead of arguing for it in your law school addendum. In my opinion, these phrases detract so much from your explanation that I don't think you take responsibility for what you did.

Then again, it could be because I'm a hardass and I've had to write things like this before. Good luck dude. Rooting for it to work out.

CF_ALT
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby CF_ALT » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:28 pm

nsbane wrote:I'm assuming that the explanation you've written is a rough draft of the addendum you will send. Maybe I'm a hardass, but these sentences sounded weasely to me:
CF_ALT wrote:I didn't realize it at the time, but my writing had borrowed too many phrases and keywords from the passages I had read.
Based on your explanation, I don't believe this. While it is within the realm of possibility that it was all accidental, you admit that the range of plagiarism was so great you were vulnerable to a much more severe punishment. I also don't think your teacher or TA ultimately believed you because, while they may have been polite and "understanding" with you during your meeting, they pursued action against you as a cheater.

I suggest taking out the "I didn't realize it." In one short sentence, I would say you had a brief lapse of judgement that allowed you to slip into wishful thinking that what you were borrowing was within fair use, but when you were confronted with the entirety of what you did, you were embarrassed and ashamed. A brief sentence like that 1) explains how & why you did it; 2) accepts responsibility for your actions; 3) expresses remorse. As of right now, I don't accept your explanation of how it happened: I don't understand how you can "accidentally" copy so much material online that your teacher sits with you in a meeting and says you will be academically sanctioned.
CF_ALT wrote:I admitted that, although I had not intended to, I had taken liberties with my writing that I should not have.
Weasel phrase.
CF_ALT wrote:Despite lack of intentions, the reality of the situation is that I did not properly cite a source in my writing.
See above.
CF_ALT wrote:In hindsight, I probably could have appeal the misconduct or at least had a formal hearing on it, but I didn't want to compound the issue with a frivolous appeal.
Look, when I applied to school, I had to explain away some embarrassing things in my background (altho it wasn't academic dishonesty). I took the 20 minutes to write this to help, not to tear you down. I want to point out that when I looked into law school admission books with chapters on admitting this stuff, the thing they hammered home was accepting responsibility and expressing remorse.

This sentence is the only one where you express remorse ... not for doing what you did, but for not challenging your unjust charge, because at the time you didn't want to complicate things. If you believed you were innocent, you should have argued for it then, instead of arguing for it in your law school addendum. In my opinion, these phrases detract so much from your explanation that I don't think you take responsibility for what you did.

Then again, it could be because I'm a hardass and I've had to write things like this before. Good luck dude. Rooting for it to work out.



Thanks for the tough love! This is all sound advice! I did not intend to have the above read as an addendum, but it certainly was a valuable exercise. I certainly do not plan on keeping any of the language that you highlighted in my application. This is the last thing that I want to do. I guess I put it in the above post to contextualize it. I understand that this means little to nothing when it comes to the application process. I was wrong. No way around that! My application will reflect that reality. Thanks again for you input! Just what I needed!

Loop9
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:17 am

Re: Overcoming Academic C&F Issue-Admissions

Postby Loop9 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:22 am

Hey OP, would you mind letting us know how things work/worked out? I've been on a lot of discussion boards dealing with these types of questions, but nobody ever seems to bother telling us how the story ends. Rooting for you. :D




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSNbot Media, sanibella and 2 guests