Previous Rejection Hurtful?

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GTSkillz
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Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby GTSkillz » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:31 pm

While waiting on my Feb. LSAT score (thanks LSAC), I am trying to decide whether to apply to meet the March 15th deadline for Fall 2012. If my score is low, putting me in a good chance of being denied, would getting denied hurt my chances next year even if I score above the median for the school in June or October for the 2013 cycle?

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No13baby
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby No13baby » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:36 pm

Don't apply anywhere this late in the cycle, period. Most of the offers of admission at reputable schools have been extended already.

Otherwise, I don't think that reapplying to a school which previously rejected you will hurt your chances. I know there are some posters on here who retook the LSAT, reapplied with better scores, and were admitted to schools that rejected them the first time around.

bp shinners
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby bp shinners » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:55 pm

No13baby wrote:Don't apply anywhere this late in the cycle, period. Most of the offers of admission at reputable schools have been extended already.

Otherwise, I don't think that reapplying to a school which previously rejected you will hurt your chances. I know there are some posters on here who retook the LSAT, reapplied with better scores, and were admitted to schools that rejected them the first time around.


If you change your application package with a higher LSAT score, you'll be reconsidered.

However, for the sake of argument, let's say you have a score that would get you in if you had applied in October, but will get you rejected if you apply now. With no changes (i.e. no retake), the presumption will be to reject you again next year. People re-applying after a rejection definitely have their applications compared against the previous one. If nothing's changed, they might not take the time to fully reconsider you.

Not saying that you'll definitely get dinged twice, but it can hurt.

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bk1
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:03 pm

bp shinners wrote:
No13baby wrote:Don't apply anywhere this late in the cycle, period. Most of the offers of admission at reputable schools have been extended already.

Otherwise, I don't think that reapplying to a school which previously rejected you will hurt your chances. I know there are some posters on here who retook the LSAT, reapplied with better scores, and were admitted to schools that rejected them the first time around.


If you change your application package with a higher LSAT score, you'll be reconsidered.

However, for the sake of argument, let's say you have a score that would get you in if you had applied in October, but will get you rejected if you apply now. With no changes (i.e. no retake), the presumption will be to reject you again next year. People re-applying after a rejection definitely have their applications compared against the previous one. If nothing's changed, they might not take the time to fully reconsider you.

Not saying that you'll definitely get dinged twice, but it can hurt.


I agree with all of this. I've always believed the bolded to be true but have no proof of it myself. However I imagine that shinners probably has actual insight since he works with a lot of applicants.

rglifberg
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby rglifberg » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:41 pm

If being previously denied doesn't hurt your chances just apply anyways, maybe it will work out for you. If not just reapply next cycle. I don't get why here on TLS automatically says "don't bother applying." Yeah, maybe you'll get rejected, maybe you'll get accepted. You'll never know unless you apply.

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FreeLolita
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby FreeLolita » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:11 pm

rglifberg wrote:If being previously denied doesn't hurt your chances just apply anyways, maybe it will work out for you. If not just reapply next cycle. I don't get why here on TLS automatically says "don't bother applying." Yeah, maybe you'll get rejected, maybe you'll get accepted. You'll never know unless you apply.


^^^This is really brilliant logic. Really Groundbreaking stuff; I mean it.

rglifberg
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby rglifberg » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:17 pm

FreeLolita wrote:
rglifberg wrote:If being previously denied doesn't hurt your chances just apply anyways, maybe it will work out for you. If not just reapply next cycle. I don't get why here on TLS automatically says "don't bother applying." Yeah, maybe you'll get rejected, maybe you'll get accepted. You'll never know unless you apply.


^^^This is really brilliant logic. Really Groundbreaking stuff; I mean it.


Why don't you get a life? Are you that socially retarded that you need to take out your frustration through an internet forum?

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FreeLolita
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby FreeLolita » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:19 pm

rglifberg wrote:
FreeLolita wrote:
rglifberg wrote:If being previously denied doesn't hurt your chances just apply anyways, maybe it will work out for you. If not just reapply next cycle. I don't get why here on TLS automatically says "don't bother applying." Yeah, maybe you'll get rejected, maybe you'll get accepted. You'll never know unless you apply.


^^^This is really brilliant logic. Really Groundbreaking stuff; I mean it.


Why don't you get a life? Are you that socially retarded that you need to take out your frustration through an internet forum?


Yes.

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JCFindley
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby JCFindley » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:02 pm

rglifberg wrote:If being previously denied doesn't hurt your chances just apply anyways, maybe it will work out for you. If not just reapply next cycle. I don't get why here on TLS automatically says "don't bother applying." Yeah, maybe you'll get rejected, maybe you'll get accepted. You'll never know unless you apply.


I couldn't agree more..... I see no harm in applying except that you are out some app fees.

If you look through the accepted threads there are a LOT of people that have had there apps in since Dec/Jan and haven't heard a thing. Why even put people in a "maybe" pile if the school wasn't even considering the Feb LSAT folks.

Now, will you risk not getting $$$ that you might have got otherwise and should you wait a year for that could be a deciding factor I suppose.

JC

rglifberg
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby rglifberg » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:40 pm

JCFindley wrote:
rglifberg wrote:If being previously denied doesn't hurt your chances just apply anyways, maybe it will work out for you. If not just reapply next cycle. I don't get why here on TLS automatically says "don't bother applying." Yeah, maybe you'll get rejected, maybe you'll get accepted. You'll never know unless you apply.


I couldn't agree more..... I see no harm in applying except that you are out some app fees.

If you look through the accepted threads there are a LOT of people that have had there apps in since Dec/Jan and haven't heard a thing. Why even put people in a "maybe" pile if the school wasn't even considering the Feb LSAT folks.

Now, will you risk not getting $$$ that you might have got otherwise and should you wait a year for that could be a deciding factor I suppose.

JC


I agree.

GTSkillz
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby GTSkillz » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:00 pm

Thanks for all the insight. I think I will go ahead and give it a shot. I'm applying to a part time program and my firm should pick up the tab, so $$ isn't a big concern. I would need to increase my lsat score dramatically to be considered for that anyways. Just wanted to make sure I would get a fair evaluation next round if dinged.

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bk641
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby bk641 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:11 pm

i am a reapplier, and i can tell you a previous rejection won't hurt you if your application will be better the second time around (usually a better lsat score). i have been admitted to quite a few schools this time around that i was rejected at two years ago simply with a higher lsat.

edit: though if you haven't even applied this time around, i also suggest you don't apply this cycle. it's just way too late.

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JCFindley
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby JCFindley » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:25 pm

bk641 wrote:i am a reapplier, and i can tell you a previous rejection won't hurt you if your application will be better the second time around (usually a better lsat score). i have been admitted to quite a few schools this time around that i was rejected at two years ago simply with a higher lsat.

edit: though if you haven't even applied this time around, i also suggest you don't apply this cycle. it's just way too late.


Just curious, why not apply this late if it won't hurt you?

I understand the odds are lower etc...... Kind of like football team down by a score with a minute left. Well, its not likely that we will win throwing a hail marry so just take a knee. We'll get some better players next year and get maybe win next season......

JC

GTSkillz
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby GTSkillz » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:37 pm

If all I lose is the app fee, I'm okay with that. I'm confident I can get a better lsat score in June/October to improve my stock next year if needed.

rglifberg
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby rglifberg » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:42 pm

JCFindley wrote:
bk641 wrote:i am a reapplier, and i can tell you a previous rejection won't hurt you if your application will be better the second time around (usually a better lsat score). i have been admitted to quite a few schools this time around that i was rejected at two years ago simply with a higher lsat.

edit: though if you haven't even applied this time around, i also suggest you don't apply this cycle. it's just way too late.


Just curious, why not apply this late if it won't hurt you?

I understand the odds are lower etc...... Kind of like football team down by a score with a minute left. Well, its not likely that we will win throwing a hail marry so just take a knee. We'll get some better players next year and get maybe win next season......

JC


Yep. I concur again. It really makes no sense why someone would suggest not applying. I really don't get it. A year of time lost is pretty valuable. If you are hoping for scholarship money then that suggestion would hold some merit, since that would definitely be affected by applying late. It seems like you are a borderline applicant, so scholarship money is probably not what you're shooting for so I say definitely apply.

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JCFindley
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby JCFindley » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:49 pm

Aside from not hurting it could actually help.....

From what I have read, applications are down this year and there are not as many people willing to spend the money on LS.

If the economy suddenly turns around there may be a flood of apps next year and even with a better LSAT you have more competition and miss getting in someplace you might have this year.

Not likely but it is a possibility.

JC

bp shinners
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby bp shinners » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:34 am

rglifberg wrote:Yep. I concur again. It really makes no sense why someone would suggest not applying. I really don't get it. A year of time lost is pretty valuable.


A year of time lost is definitely valuable, no doubt. However, law school admissions are a fairly predictable game.

Sure, there are a few anomalies. But, for the most part, you can tell how you're going to do going into the cycle. This is even more true when you're aiming outside of the T14, which appears true of the OP.

Will applying this year and getting rejected hurt him? Not if he increases his LSAT score or improves his application in some other, material way for next year's cycle. However, I would say the chances of him being an anomalous admit this year while applying this late is lower than the chance of him not improving his application package for next year (sorry, OP - talking statistics here; prove me wrong!). If I'm right in that assessment (and I freely admit I might be wrong), applying now would hurt him since the presumption when he reapplies next year is a rejection.

On top of that, if he really thinks that he can do better on a retake, the increase in prestige and scholarship money associated with a large jump might be worth a year of his life. Especially since he won't be trading that year like Faust - he'll still be alive, enjoying it, while working at a job that seems solid.

r6_philly
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:55 am

I did not retake, applied to HLS after rejection and got a WL. Not awesome, but a data point showing previous rejection is not hurtful. Neither are previous WL (I have several of those turned into acceptances)

bp shinners
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby bp shinners » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:54 am

r6_philly wrote:I did not retake, applied to HLS after rejection and got a WL. Not awesome, but a data point showing previous rejection is not hurtful. Neither are previous WL (I have several of those turned into acceptances)


That's not a data point saying that the previous rejection is not hurtful - just that it's not damning. It's all speculation, but you might have been admitted had you not been previously rejected from HLS because of shifting application pools. Or something else might have changed about your application - did you rewrite your PS? Have a year of great WE that you lacked before?

What's not speculation is that at least some schools (whose admissions officers I've talked to) will place an old application from you next to your new one and see what's changed. I didn't get into specifics with them about how they use that info (because they're usually a bit tight-lipped and deflective of those questions), but I can't imagine that they look at it and say, "Huh, interesting. Well, let's forget this old decision!" From personal experience with many people reapplying to the same school after a rejection (both who increased and didn't increase their LSAT/changed their application in some meaningful way), that old decision does weigh into the new one, especially if nothing's changed.

cd7573
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Re: Previous Rejection Hurtful?

Postby cd7573 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:06 pm

I am in a similar situation. I got a 170 on the feb. LSAT and sent out applications to UVA and Penn. I have a 3.7ish which under normal circumstances would be fairly competitive. Do these possible rejections or WL hurt my chances at EDing at one of these schools next cycle?




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