What school gives the greatest ED boost?

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Hoocheez
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What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby Hoocheez » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:30 pm

From what you've experienced and seen on TLS, which law schools within the top 20 or so give the greatest "boost" to ED applicants, especially those who are splitters? Georgetown? UCLA? Thanks

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FlanAl
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby FlanAl » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:33 pm

Uva I think. I'm not sure if it is the case anymore but pretty much anyone with less than 3.6 and greater than 169 was told to ed Uva on this board like automatically. Remember that even though some of these schools let you ED late in the game you should really probably do it early.

Hoocheez
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby Hoocheez » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:40 pm

thanks for the reply!

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splitbrain
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby splitbrain » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:50 pm

UVA

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bk1
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:55 pm

Where you should ED depends on your numbers. For example: a sub3.8/sub170 isn't getting into UVA, ED or not.

Hoocheez
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby Hoocheez » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:12 am

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Last edited by Hoocheez on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:38 am

Hoocheez wrote:I have a high GPA (slightly above a 4.0) and assuming the absolute worst on the LSAT I'm taking this June (162-165), so I would be a high-GPA splitter. I would like ED UCLA but it's impossible to tell what school would bite


You should probably ED to UVA, but I definitely wouldn't ED to UCLA since UCLA is not worth paying sticker for.

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sach1282
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby sach1282 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:32 am

UVA seems to give the highest ED boost, by a substantial margin.

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danielhay11
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby danielhay11 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:47 am

Hoocheez wrote:I have a high GPA (slightly above a 4.0) and assuming the absolute worst on the LSAT I'm taking this June (162-165), so I would be a high-GPA splitter. I would like ED UCLA but it's impossible to tell what school would bite


UVA also has a quick turnaround time on ED applications (two weeks I think?). Assuming you apply early, you can ED to UVA and, if you get dinged or deferred, then ED to another school.

Real Madrid
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby Real Madrid » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:06 am

UVA, no contest. It's the only school I can think of where you can be right at one median and considerably below the other and still be a near-lock. And I think a hugely disproportionate number of their students (at least compared to other T14s) are made up of ED applicants.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:43 am

This isn't an answer to the question you asked, but as a splitter who got into UVa via ED, I think you ought to hear this. UVa is a fabulous school. I am having a wonderful experience here. The prestige of the degree will follow me around for life, and I am going to have great opportunities leaving here. I got multiple BigLaw/corporate offers for the upcoming 2L summer (one of which I accepted), all in markets to which I had no significant ties.

But would I do it again? I'm not so sure. You really ought to consider the fact that ED students almost never receive scholarship money. UVa's current cost of attendance for nonresidents is over $70,000 per year. After compounded interest, that means that you are going to graduate with nearly $250,000 in debt. (This assumes, of course, that you accrued no undergraduate debt.) You'll be left with only four viable options:
1. Make partner in BigLaw
2. Go into the public sector/nonprofit work for ten years
3. Treat the debt as a mortgage for a house you never get to see
4. Move to Canada

Number one is not a viable option for the vast majority of graduates, even at a school like UVa. Chances are you'll get pushed out or burned out long before you get to that point. Number two is much harder than people think. PI jobs are extremely competitive, and it's very common for folks to see their jobs dry up due to budget cuts. Number three is soul-crushing. Which pretty much leaves you wearing a toque and eating back bacon. U-V-Eh!

UVa ED may be the right decision for you, depending on your circumstances. Then again, so might a hefty scholarship at a lower-ranked school. Make sure you make this decision with eyes wide open.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:30 am

flem wrote:
bgdddymtty wrote:This isn't an answer to the question you asked, but as a splitter who got into UVa via ED, I think you ought to hear this. UVa is a fabulous school. I am having a wonderful experience here. The prestige of the degree will follow me around for life, and I am going to have great opportunities leaving here. I got multiple BigLaw/corporate offers for the upcoming 2L summer (one of which I accepted), all in markets to which I had no significant ties.

But would I do it again? I'm not so sure. You really ought to consider the fact that ED students almost never receive scholarship money.


Is this true? I hear conflicting info on this. It certainly seems plausible.
I don't know whether ED students are specifically excluded from scholarship consideration. I have heard second-hand from what I consider a reliable source that they aren't. However, students who need ED to get in make up the vast majority of ED applicants, and those students are the ones least likely to receive scholarship money.

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pancakelover
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby pancakelover » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:51 am

How much does ED actually help a bro out? How strategic is it to ED someplace that's a reach school vs. a place you'd like to have on lock-down and you're above 25% but below median on lsat and gpa?

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bgdddymtty
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:16 pm

pancakelover wrote:How much does ED actually help a bro out? How strategic is it to ED someplace that's a reach school vs. a place you'd like to have on lock-down and you're above 25% but below median on lsat and gpa?
If the school's ED is binding (it is at UVa), you're agreeing that if you're admitted, you'll to go to that school or sit out the cycle. How much it helps will depend heavily on the school, your special snowflake circumstances, etc. The big issue is that by EDing, you're throwing the "cost" half of the cost/benefit analysis out the window. If you have rationally determined that going to your reach school at full pop is the best possible option for you, then by all means get your ED on. If you're not so sure that better career prospects are worth carrying a gigantic debt anchor around your neck for the first decade or so of your professional career, EDing is probably not right for you.*

*YMMV, somewhat. If your parents have agreed to pay for law school, or you know that you want to be a DA or PD for at least a decade, or you have some other fortunate circumstance that makes you immune to the cost of law school, then this advice doesn't apply to you.

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bk1
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:26 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:You'll be left with only four viable options:
1. Make partner in BigLaw


This seems hyperbolic.

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moonman157
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby moonman157 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:29 pm

Just from reading posts over the past few weeks, it seems that Michigan is also known for giving a boost to ED applicants. Can someone confirm or deny this? Obviously applying anywhere ED will give you a boost, but I've seen Michigan and ED thrown around enough for me to notice.

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bk1
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:30 pm

moonman157 wrote:Just from reading posts over the past few weeks, it seems that Michigan is also known for giving a boost to ED applicants. Can someone confirm or deny this? Obviously applying anywhere ED will give you a boost, but I've seen Michigan and ED thrown around enough for me to notice.


It has to do with the fact that ED or not, Michigan is more likely to take 168/169's than other T14's.

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IAFG
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby IAFG » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:35 pm

bk1 wrote:
bgdddymtty wrote:You'll be left with only four viable options:
1. Make partner in BigLaw


This seems hyperbolic.

Gee, just a little, huh?

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moonman157
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby moonman157 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:36 pm

bk1 wrote:
moonman157 wrote:Just from reading posts over the past few weeks, it seems that Michigan is also known for giving a boost to ED applicants. Can someone confirm or deny this? Obviously applying anywhere ED will give you a boost, but I've seen Michigan and ED thrown around enough for me to notice.


It has to do with the fact that ED or not, Michigan is more likely to take 168/169's than other T14's.


Ok thanks for the clarification

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:49 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:
flem wrote:
bgdddymtty wrote:This isn't an answer to the question you asked, but as a splitter who got into UVa via ED, I think you ought to hear this. UVa is a fabulous school. I am having a wonderful experience here. The prestige of the degree will follow me around for life, and I am going to have great opportunities leaving here. I got multiple BigLaw/corporate offers for the upcoming 2L summer (one of which I accepted), all in markets to which I had no significant ties.

But would I do it again? I'm not so sure. You really ought to consider the fact that ED students almost never receive scholarship money.


Is this true? I hear conflicting info on this. It certainly seems plausible.
I don't know whether ED students are specifically excluded from scholarship consideration. I have heard second-hand from what I consider a reliable source that they aren't. However, students who need ED to get in make up the vast majority of ED applicants, and those students are the ones least likely to receive scholarship money.


me got a free year doing ED UVA
Last edited by FloridaCoastalorbust on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pancakelover
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby pancakelover » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:01 pm

Why do some schools give ED applicants a boost? To maintain their yield?

And can someone clarify about this - if you ED and get in someplace, you could sit out the cycle and ultimately not attend that school, and apply again next cycle? What happens if you ED and decide not to go there?

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:05 pm

pancakelover wrote:And can someone clarify about this - if you ED and get in someplace, you could sit out the cycle and ultimately not attend that school, and apply again next cycle? What happens if you ED and decide not to go there?


ED UVA applies only to that particular cycle (called their admissions office awhile back)

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dailygrind
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby dailygrind » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:31 pm

Someone in the UVA thread pointed out (and I agreed with) the possibility that an admissions office would probably not look very favorably upon you if you sent in an ED app and then decided to reapply the next year.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:08 pm

IAFG wrote:
bk1 wrote:
bgdddymtty wrote:You'll be left with only four viable options:
1. Make partner in BigLaw


This seems hyperbolic.

Gee, just a little, huh?

How so? Have you looked at the repayment schedule on that kind of debt? If you go to UVa (out-of-state) or any similarly priced school at sticker and take the recommended amount of COL loans, you'll borrow a little over $70,000 this school year. That will probably rise each of the next three years. Once you add in the interest that will accrue on the unsubsidized loans, your total debt load at graduation, and certainly at time of bar passage, will hover right around $250,000.

When I say that you'd need to make partner in BigLaw, what I really mean is that you'd need to stick around in BigLaw (or another career path that pays similarly, such as consulting or banking) for as long as it would take to make partner. That's eight years at most firms. If I'm being hyperbolic, it should be reasonable to pay off that much debt in less time, no? The payment on a $250,000 loan at 6.8% interest, amortized over eight years, is $3,383.60/month, or about $40,600/year. To do it in, say, six years would be $4,238.28/month, or over $50,800/year. Absolutely none of which is tax-deductible, by the way.

Is it impossible to make debt payments of this size? No. But the person who chooses this route will be eating rice and beans until he is in hid mid-thirties, and most likely postponing things like getting married and having kids. Not exactly the reward that most people are expecting for several years of 60-70-hour weeks at a job almost no one professes to enjoy.

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bk1
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Re: What school gives the greatest ED boost?

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:21 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:How so? Have you looked at the repayment schedule on that kind of debt? If you go to UVa (out-of-state) or any similarly priced school at sticker and take the recommended amount of COL loans, you'll borrow a little over $70,000 this school year. That will probably rise each of the next three years. Once you add in the interest that will accrue on the unsubsidized loans, your total debt load at graduation, and certainly at time of bar passage, will hover right around $250,000.

When I say that you'd need to make partner in BigLaw, what I really mean is that you'd need to stick around in BigLaw (or another career path that pays similarly, such as consulting or banking) for as long as it would take to make partner. That's eight years at most firms. If I'm being hyperbolic, it should be reasonable to pay off that much debt in less time, no? The payment on a $250,000 loan at 6.8% interest, amortized over eight years, is $3,383.60/month, or about $40,600/year. To do it in, say, six years would be $4,238.28/month, or over $50,800/year. Absolutely none of which is tax-deductible, by the way.

Is it impossible to make debt payments of this size? No. But the person who chooses this route will be eating rice and beans until he is in hid mid-thirties, and most likely postponing things like getting married and having kids. Not exactly the reward that most people are expecting for several years of 60-70-hour weeks at a job almost no one professes to enjoy.


Post tax, 3 years in biglaw including bonuses looks something like 95, 110, 115. Estimating all non-loan expenses at 70k/year you will have been able to pour 110k into your loans by year 3. A 4th year would net you almost an additional 70k poured into your loans, but let's assume that people exit at year 3. 150k+ debt, transitioning to a job that pays around 100k. Granted I think at this point things don't look too great, but it hasn't been "rice and beans" living for 3 years in the slightest. It seems to me that sticking around for a 4th year is pretty critical for loan repayment.

And I don't see why this means postponing getting married and having kids. If either of these things are options it likely means you have a partner who is also making money. I do agree with you that sticker-->biglaw isn't the best thing ever, but it's not like you're living in a cardboard box when you're making 70k post tax/loanpayments.




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