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(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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Crowing
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Postby Crowing » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:00 am

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Last edited by Crowing on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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johansantana21
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:02 am

Depends which T14. Not sure regarding HYS but I had less softs than you did and my cycle went my numbers predicted for the lower T14s.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby bernaldiaz » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:03 am

Crowing wrote:So I literally have not played a significant role in any extracurricular clubs in UG... I have, however, TA'd for the past 3 semesters and worked/volunteered/done research over summers. Am I still going to get auto dinged at T-14s for having no softs?


What you just named, that stuff if softs. Sounds like more substantive EC's than volunteering or UG clubs. I think you'll be fine.

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FryBreadPower
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby FryBreadPower » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:04 am

Crowing wrote:So I literally have not played a significant role in any extracurricular clubs in UG... I have, however, TA'd for the past 3 semesters and worked/volunteered/done research over summers. Am I still going to get auto dinged at T-14s for having no softs?


No one gets "auto-dinged" for softs. People get "auto-dinged" because of their numbers or because of some ridiculous C+F issue (like...you killed a dude or something).

Plus, these certainly can't be considered, "no softs". Not everyone applying to law school worked for well-known businesses or are published authors.

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Crowing
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Crowing » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:07 am

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johansantana21
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:09 am

Crowing wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:Depends which T14. Not sure regarding HYS but I had less softs than you did and my cycle went my numbers predicted for the lower T14s.


Hm, but was it pretty easy to predict based on your numbers? I'm a splitter so LSP is not very useful for me, and looking at LSN I appear to be pretty borderline at the whole T-14 sub-CCN (with CCN being quite the reach). I really can't tell much based on pure numbers; how important are LoRs, the PS, and supplemental essays compared to softs?


PS -- don't fuck up with spelling errors or stupid topics and you are fine
LOR -- not sure??
Supplemental essays -- didn't write any

99% of law school comes down to grades, race, and application timing.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:09 am

If your LSN is accurate you will not get dinged by softs. You're gonna get WLed or dinged because of how late you applied.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby bernaldiaz » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:11 am

johansantana21 wrote:
Crowing wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:Depends which T14. Not sure regarding HYS but I had less softs than you did and my cycle went my numbers predicted for the lower T14s.


Hm, but was it pretty easy to predict based on your numbers? I'm a splitter so LSP is not very useful for me, and looking at LSN I appear to be pretty borderline at the whole T-14 sub-CCN (with CCN being quite the reach). I really can't tell much based on pure numbers; how important are LoRs, the PS, and supplemental essays compared to softs?


PS -- don't fuck up with spelling errors or stupid topics and you are fine
LOR -- not sure??
Supplemental essays -- didn't write any

99% of law school comes down to grades, race, and application timing.


Regarding LoR's, this is from the Yale admissions blog.

http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... ation.aspx

Make of that what you will.

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johansantana21
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:12 am

bernaldiaz wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
Crowing wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:Depends which T14. Not sure regarding HYS but I had less softs than you did and my cycle went my numbers predicted for the lower T14s.


Hm, but was it pretty easy to predict based on your numbers? I'm a splitter so LSP is not very useful for me, and looking at LSN I appear to be pretty borderline at the whole T-14 sub-CCN (with CCN being quite the reach). I really can't tell much based on pure numbers; how important are LoRs, the PS, and supplemental essays compared to softs?


PS -- don't fuck up with spelling errors or stupid topics and you are fine
LOR -- not sure??
Supplemental essays -- didn't write any

99% of law school comes down to grades, race, and application timing.


Regarding LoR's, this is from the Yale admissions blog.

http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... ation.aspx

Make of that what you will.


Well, yeah. Forgot to mention that Yale is a black box.

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Ozymandias
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Ozymandias » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:13 am

Crowing wrote:Hm, but was it pretty easy to predict based on your numbers? I'm a splitter so LSP is not very useful for me, and looking at LSN I appear to be pretty borderline at the whole T-14 sub-CCN (with CCN being quite the reach). I really can't tell much based on pure numbers; how important are LoRs, the PS, and supplemental essays compared to softs?

Those are all softs. Your LSAT and GPA are the hard numbers, everything else is a soft factor. If you can fill out a resume (you can), write coherent and error-free essays, and get LORs from professors who know you and like you, you're fine. It's a numbers game. Softs tend to matter when they're really awesome or really negative. The vast majority of candidates have similar softs. You'll get in based on numbers. The problem is that's not terribly helpful advice because you're a splitter, but that's about the best TLS can do, save for telling you to apply broadly and see what happens.

Mal Reynolds wrote:If your LSN is accurate you will not get dinged by softs. You're gonna get WLed or dinged because of how late you applied.

Also this. If you're not happy with your options this cycle, it might be wise to reapply next year. Rolling admissions are not your friend if you apply late.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby bernaldiaz » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:17 am

What do you think of sending that Blog post to my recommendors? I'm thinking if I word an email correctly, it won't come off too presumptuous. It might be a good resource for them (if they want to be helpful, which I think they will) and would definitely be beneficial to me. They are both young professors who I have developed a relationship and are pretty cool people.

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Crowing
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Crowing » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:19 am

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Mal Reynolds
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:34 am

Crowing wrote:but reapplying next cycle isn't really a viable option now considering my personal situation coupled with the fact that I'm in at WUSTL now.


Without knowing your personal situation, there is a 95% chance that this thought it complete nonsense. You are just getting out of undergrad. There are not a whole lot of reasons why someone would HAVE to go to law school next year. There are plenty of reasons why someone needs to stop going to school, but not vice versa. You will not explode if you don't go to law school next year.

Taking a couple of years off to work was the best decision I made with regards to law school. Im not telling you don't go this year, but I dare you to come up with a reason why you HAVE to go. I bet you most people here won't be convinced.

WUSTL is a great school but with a lot of debt I don't know if it's the best option. Especially if you waited a year and gave yourself a legitimate chance of getting into NYU, Michigan, GULC etc.

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instantwonton
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby instantwonton » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:13 am

I agree with Mal Reynolds that it is best to take a couple of years to work first. I had very minimal softs, but a few years of solid work experience and I ended up getting into HLS with very borderline numbers. I think that my work experience helped to play a big part in that (as well as my references and personal statement).

While WUSTL is a good school, I think that you can get into a much higher school. If I were you and didn't get into any other schools, I would wait and work a couple of years and then reapply.

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banjo
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby banjo » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:52 pm

bernaldiaz wrote:What do you think of sending that Blog post to my recommendors? I'm thinking if I word an email correctly, it won't come off too presumptuous. It might be a good resource for them (if they want to be helpful, which I think they will) and would definitely be beneficial to me. They are both young professors who I have developed a relationship and are pretty cool people.


Good idea. I sent it to my youngest recommender, who just got a TT position and hasn't written many law school recs yet. I basically said that I found an interesting blog post on law school recommendations from the dean of Yale, made a joke about one of the samples, and said I hoped it would help for future recommendations they write. I didn't even mention my own rec, which she hasn't written yet.

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Crowing
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Crowing » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:42 pm

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bernaldiaz
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby bernaldiaz » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:49 pm

banjo wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:What do you think of sending that Blog post to my recommendors? I'm thinking if I word an email correctly, it won't come off too presumptuous. It might be a good resource for them (if they want to be helpful, which I think they will) and would definitely be beneficial to me. They are both young professors who I have developed a relationship and are pretty cool people.


Good idea. I sent it to my youngest recommender, who just got a TT position and hasn't written many law school recs yet. I basically said that I found an interesting blog post on law school recommendations from the dean of Yale, made a joke about one of the samples, and said I hoped it would help for future recommendations they write. I didn't even mention my own rec, which she hasn't written yet.


Nice. That's exactly how I was going to do it. Make a little joke about some of the quotes in the blog but sort of present it as a resource for them if they want it.

chasgoose
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby chasgoose » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:38 am

Crowing wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Crowing wrote:but reapplying next cycle isn't really a viable option now considering my personal situation coupled with the fact that I'm in at WUSTL now.


Without knowing your personal situation, there is a 95% chance that this thought it complete nonsense. You are just getting out of undergrad. There are not a whole lot of reasons why someone would HAVE to go to law school next year. There are plenty of reasons why someone needs to stop going to school, but not vice versa. You will not explode if you don't go to law school next year.

Taking a couple of years off to work was the best decision I made with regards to law school. Im not telling you don't go this year, but I dare you to come up with a reason why you HAVE to go. I bet you most people here won't be convinced.

WUSTL is a great school but with a lot of debt I don't know if it's the best option. Especially if you waited a year and gave yourself a legitimate chance of getting into NYU, Michigan, GULC etc.


I agree with you personally; I don't have any particular desires to insist on being a K-JD. But I might as well spell out my situation since it's rather strange and perhaps some people will have some opinions on it. Essentially, I have a family member who will foot my entire law school bill if I attend this fall. If I put it off, there's no guarantee that that money will be there. Don't ask me why I have to go this fall to get the money; honestly I don't really know. I've tried making plenty of arguments about how retaking and working for a year could be beneficial but they were to no avail.

So given my situation (assuming that there is no way I can get somebody else to foot my bill if I take a year off) we're essentially talking about a free ride to WUSTL for me compared to waiting a year and maybe reapplying and getting into a lower half T-14. My GPA will be up after this semester but I'm not going to cross any T-14 25% medians (except NU which I'm already above) so I feel as though even if I can up my LSAT score into the upper 170s it's not going to help much; the only potential boosts I'll see are from the soft of having a year of FT WE and from applying earlier.

I guess this will all be moot if I can somehow secure a T-14 acceptance this late in this cycle, but that's not something I'm counting on right now.


If that's true, that may be one of the only legit reasons someone HAS to go to law school this cycle. Free @ WUSTL vs. CCN (which would be sticker no matter when you applied) is still sort of a toss-up because you bear the risk of paying the costs of attending WUSTL many times over throughout the course of your career, but it's at least possible to do well there and get a decent job. NYU might happen depending on what numbers they need at this point, Columbia's a long shot, and there is little to no hope of getting into Chicago at this point because they tend to be super harsh on late applications. Also, you don't lack softs in a detrimental way.

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Crowing
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Crowing » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:18 am

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Mal Reynolds
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:36 am

Wow, I wax poetic on all of the reasons why you don't have to go to school next year and you come back with a legitimate reason you need to go next year. Now I guess Im the asshole haha. Having school totally paid for is a compelling reason to go anywhere. And WUSTL will give tyou enough opportunities without the debt to make it a good decision. I don't think your cycle is over quite yet. So maybe wait on your decisions and try to see if you can get this sweet ass deal extended to next year. Good luck.

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banjo
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby banjo » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:49 am

How about ED UVA? It's not too late, right?

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:44 am

I had weaker numbers and applied in late January. Got NU at the nailbiting end (after being held). I had been out a year but only had odd temp jobs on my resume, nothing particularly compelling. I think having like 1-5% of their class coming directly from undergrad is a point of pride for them though, so even though I didn't have WE, I also wasn't technically a K-JD.

I think you should be able to get Georgetown which may be better than GULC if someone else is footing the bill. Otherwise, I think you'd have a shot at NYU next cycle and plenty of acceptances 7-14 if you were able to say no to the money/were able to convince your relative that some WE and a better school is better for the long term. Up to you.

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Ozymandias
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Ozymandias » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:14 pm

banjo wrote:How about ED UVA? It's not too late, right?

Yeah, this. If someone is footing your whole bill, apply to UVA ED before March 1. You're probably not going to have a lot of better acceptances with a February application date, and likely wouldn't be looking at big T-14 scholarships with your GPA anyway, so I'd just ED to UVA if I were you.

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Crowing
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby Crowing » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:36 am

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spleenworship
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Re: How much will a lack of softs hurt at T-14s?

Postby spleenworship » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:39 am

FryBreadPower wrote:
Crowing wrote:So I literally have not played a significant role in any extracurricular clubs in UG... I have, however, TA'd for the past 3 semesters and worked/volunteered/done research over summers. Am I still going to get auto dinged at T-14s for having no softs?


No one gets "auto-dinged" for softs. People get "auto-dinged" because of their numbers or because of some ridiculous C+F issue (like...you killed a dude or something).

Plus, these certainly can't be considered, "no softs". Not everyone applying to law school worked for well-known businesses or are published authors.


I'd like to point out that killing someone is not an auto ding... See Tulane.




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