More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

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STLMizzou
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby STLMizzou » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:56 pm

Tag, it's an MTAL thread. Should get some lolz

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MTal
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby MTal » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:05 pm

STLMizzou wrote:Tag, it's an MTAL thread. Should get some lolz


Yeah, thousands of unemployed youth 200k in debt and no career prospect is HILARIOUS!

Paul Campos
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby Paul Campos » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:39 pm

Dylan Ratigan points out it's a problem that current graduates of American colleges and universities have an average of $24K in educational debt and bad job prospects. He's right of course, but compare that situation to law school. The current 1L class is going to graduate with about $150K of educational debt, on average. A year later maybe 15% of those people will be making a salary that comes anywhere close to justifying that kind of debt load. Five years farther down the road that number will be cut in half.

buddyluv545
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby buddyluv545 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:57 pm

I take all my loans from private lenders with the hope that some day there will be a fire, tornado, or other disaster that makes it impossible for them to find out what I owe.

That's my financial backup plan.

STLMizzou
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby STLMizzou » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:16 pm

MTal wrote:
STLMizzou wrote:Tag, it's an MTAL thread. Should get some lolz


Yeah, thousands of unemployed youth 200k in debt and no career prospect is HILARIOUS!


When you talk about it? kinda...

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romothesavior
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby romothesavior » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:26 pm

Paul Campos wrote:Dylan Ratigan points out it's a problem that current graduates of American colleges and universities have an average of $24K in educational debt and bad job prospects. He's right of course, but compare that situation to law school. The current 1L class is going to graduate with about $150K of educational debt, on average. A year later maybe 15% of those people will be making a salary that comes anywhere close to justifying that kind of debt load. Five years farther down the road that number will be cut in half.

Amen. The issues facing undergrads are bad, but they pale in comparison to what law students face.

The thing is, most people know that times are tough for college grads, but many dumbasses have no clue about the law school situation and still think being a lawyer is a ticket to success. And unfortunately, it is often parents, college professors, and other people with heavy influence over college kids' lives who are the ones pushing the law school idea. They have no idea that they are setting their students/kids up for failure.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:06 am

"Nearly everyone I've spoken to thinks this system is fixable if we get rid of the incentives that lead to Greedy Bastard--style profit-taking. Much university spending doesn't go to learning, so if we made that spending transparent we could take on cost structures. We don't have to go to the universities that do prestige marketing, we don't have to hire from them, and we don't have to spend our dollars with them. This would lead to innovations in education that could take advantage of technology to increase learning. And we can make student lending more equitable and transparent, so 18 year olds aren't signing their financial lives away."

Huh? Get the government out of student lending. Problem solved.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby TIKITEMBO » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:21 am

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Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom Joad
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby Tom Joad » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:31 am

TIKITEMBO wrote:
Huh? Get the government out of student lending. Problem solved.


Woah dude. As a Public Interest person, government loans are my daddy. I know that schools charge more because they feel they can as government loan limits go on forever. However, I am not for getting rid of the only competition to private loans. I'd rather take out insanely large loans from the government with much better interest rates, easier ability to defer and forebare, and IBR/10 year forgiveness (or 20 year forgiveness if you're not PI) than only be able to get the "we hate you give us our money" loans from private lenders.

That being said, I haven't figured out a solution. So much money being available certainly makes schools greedy about it. Perhaps you could tie tuition hikes to inflation? I don't know. I'm making crap up, but please don't suggest taking my government loans. I'd rather be a slave to a slightly nicer master where I might conceivably be able to secure freedom one day. Private lenders are not that one.


Yeah, but you can get your freedom back much easier from private lenders via bankruptcy.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby TIKITEMBO » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:45 am

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Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom Joad
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby Tom Joad » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:49 am

TIKITEMBO wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:
TIKITEMBO wrote:
Huh? Get the government out of student lending. Problem solved.


Woah dude. As a Public Interest person, government loans are my daddy. I know that schools charge more because they feel they can as government loan limits go on forever. However, I am not for getting rid of the only competition to private loans. I'd rather take out insanely large loans from the government with much better interest rates, easier ability to defer and forebare, and IBR/10 year forgiveness (or 20 year forgiveness if you're not PI) than only be able to get the "we hate you give us our money" loans from private lenders.

That being said, I haven't figured out a solution. So much money being available certainly makes schools greedy about it. Perhaps you could tie tuition hikes to inflation? I don't know. I'm making crap up, but please don't suggest taking my government loans. I'd rather be a slave to a slightly nicer master where I might conceivably be able to secure freedom one day. Private lenders are not that one.


Yeah, but you can get your freedom back much easier from private lenders via bankruptcy.

Right now they are, but that law could change, as many of TLS posters would advocate.

I thought student loans were pretty much impossible to get rid of (even in bankruptcy) regardless of the letter. Not true?

Edited because I tried to reply half asleep. Current law makes them undischarged, but that could change.
Last edited by Tom Joad on Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hung jury
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby hung jury » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:08 pm

Paul Campos wrote:Dylan Ratigan points out it's a problem that current graduates of American colleges and universities have an average of $24K in educational debt and bad job prospects. He's right of course, but compare that situation to law school. The current 1L class is going to graduate with about $150K of educational debt, on average. A year later maybe 15% of those people will be making a salary that comes anywhere close to justifying that kind of debt load. Five years farther down the road that number will be cut in half.


I don't disagree that there is a problem, but where do you get the 150k figure from? It seems pretty inaccurate, either as a mean or a median.

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Liquox
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby Liquox » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:23 pm

dude, if you really hate higher ed that much, then don't go for it

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Mr. Pancakes
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby Mr. Pancakes » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:26 pm

STLMizzou wrote:Tag, it's an MTAL thread. Should get some lolz

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romothesavior
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:47 pm

hung jury wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:Dylan Ratigan points out it's a problem that current graduates of American colleges and universities have an average of $24K in educational debt and bad job prospects. He's right of course, but compare that situation to law school. The current 1L class is going to graduate with about $150K of educational debt, on average. A year later maybe 15% of those people will be making a salary that comes anywhere close to justifying that kind of debt load. Five years farther down the road that number will be cut in half.


I don't disagree that there is a problem, but where do you get the 150k figure from? It seems pretty inaccurate, either as a mean or a median.

It does seem a little high. It is probably around six-figures though when you add up undergrad loans (some of which are accruing interest) and law school loans.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby TIKITEMBO » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:53 pm

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Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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skers
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby skers » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:27 pm

The law job market has nothing on the phd market.

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Samara
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby Samara » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:10 pm

Tom Joad wrote:Edited because I tried to reply half asleep. Current law makes them undischarged, but that could change.

I seriously doubt the law will ever change to make student loans dischargeable. People were abusing that privilege before the current economic woes.

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Samara
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby Samara » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:28 pm

I just want to point out that the current unemployment rate for no high school diploma is 15.0%, no college is 9.5%, some college is 7.5%, college graduates is 4.4%. Source As of October 2011, the unemployment rate for those with an advanced degree was 3.3%, is likely lower now. Source

On the whole, the more education you get, including a law degree, the better off you are going to be. I feel like the very specific problem of people paying $150k at TTTT schools based on misleading job statistics is getting conflated with the general weakening of the legal job market.

apollo2015
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby apollo2015 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:01 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Get the government out of student lending. Problem solved.


+1, so long as that is coupled with the government quitting pushing businesses towards credentialism.

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Tom Joad
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby Tom Joad » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:56 am

apollo2015 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Get the government out of student lending. Problem solved.


+1, so long as that is coupled with the government quitting pushing businesses towards credentialism.

What is this, I don't even...

apollo2015
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Re: More indications higher ed scam is going mainstream:

Postby apollo2015 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:11 am

Tom Joad wrote:
apollo2015 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Get the government out of student lending. Problem solved.


+1, so long as that is coupled with the government quitting pushing businesses towards credentialism.

What is this, I don't even...


I think the government needs to stop pushing people to complete college/high school. Requiring people to go to high school has hurt the value of the High School Degree. It would be one thing if high school taught skills that improve people's productivity, but it doesn't really.




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