How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
Geneva
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:32 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby Geneva » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:06 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Geneva wrote:Valid point. On the other hand, I have been accepted to a bunch of T14s that TLS wisdom suggests I shouldn't have bc of the tardiness of my applications. E.g. I applied to Berkeley right before deadline and was accepted despite being out of state and having less than stellar numbers. People on TLS said that it wasn't worth the application fee to apply at that point, and yet...in. Incidents like these make me question the importants of timing.


If you buy a powerball ticket and win the jackpot, does that mean it's easier to win the lottery than what other people say? If you place 1 bid on a biglaw firm at OCI and get an offer, does it mean it's easier to land a biglaw job than people say? If you don't study for torts at all and score a A+, does it mean it's eaiser to score a A+ than other people say?

People are not making arbitrary conclusions. The schools themselves explain how "rolling admissions" relate to timing of the application. Your counterexample illustrate exceptions to the general understanding of how the admission process works.

You can search the threads or browse school website FAQs to see how the timing affects candidate chances.

If I could see statistics showing the 25-50-75 percentile GPA/LSAT/URM status for candidates accepted that applied to ___ school "early", "on time", and "late" in the season, and see a significant difference based on timing, I would revise my opinion. Given that a lot of ppl on TLS/LSN post numbers that they acknowledge are fudged and that we appear to lack the (verified) data required to accurately model the risk of applying late, it seems wrong to take such extreme positions and perpetuate them as fact. Is applying late ideal? Obviously not. Is a gamechanger? Not necessarily.

I said incidents like my Berkeley acceptance make me QUESTION the importance of timing, not that timing is irrelevant. I would just like to see some data to back up the claims about timing made on this forum.

cd7573
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:43 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby cd7573 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:11 pm

This thread and threads like this scared me... and i almost did not apply this cycle. Instead I was accepted to my dream school while only hitting the median LSAT and falling below the gpa median.

RachaelRachelle
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:47 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby RachaelRachelle » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:28 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
RachaelRachelle wrote:I applied to all my schools in February and still am applying for some this week (with fee waivers). So far I've gotten into all of them, so I think people are overstating how much it matters. Probably matters more for financial aid.


LOL at this being just a throwaway consideration.



I don't think it's a throwaway consideration...it was just my guess since I personally have not had issues with getting into schools and applying late, but also have not received any info on scholarships. I probably won't get any merit scholarships (low GPA), so for me it didn't matter much because all my aid will be need based.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:02 pm

RachaelRachelle wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
RachaelRachelle wrote:I applied to all my schools in February and still am applying for some this week (with fee waivers). So far I've gotten into all of them, so I think people are overstating how much it matters. Probably matters more for financial aid.


LOL at this being just a throwaway consideration.



I don't think it's a throwaway consideration...it was just my guess since I personally have not had issues with getting into schools and applying late, but also have not received any info on scholarships. I probably won't get any merit scholarships (low GPA), so for me it didn't matter much because all my aid will be need based.


I had low GPA, high LSAT. I applied in November with my Oct. LSAT. I got a slew of merit scholarships I never would've gotten without applying early. How do I know? One of my classmates with virtually the same numbers ended up without any for applying in January.

User avatar
acrossthelake
Posts: 4432
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:15 pm

Geneva wrote: Given that a lot of ppl on TLS/LSN post numbers that they acknowledge are fudged


People try to fudge them to make them roughly equivalent, just not identifiable. I think for my cycle I fudged to a 3.75/179 instead of a 3.78/178 with both GPAs below the 25% of my law school and both LSAT being above the 75th. At other points I just put "3.75-3.80 GPA, 177-180LSAT". So, blurred, but not entirely off.

Take this profile: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/harq
3.8/178 are YHS eligible-numbers, yet the person gets shut out by YHS, waitlisted at NYU and rejected from Berkeley?? (Accepted into CLS) Applied in February. This is far more rare with October applicants with those numbers.

Geneva
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:32 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby Geneva » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:36 am

in at stanford. applied in january and didn't turn in letter of good standing from my undergrad until late feb.

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby bdubs » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:03 am

Geneva wrote:in at stanford. applied in january and didn't turn in letter of good standing from my undergrad until late feb.


Congrats! People reading this thread in the future should probably recognize that being a URM really changes things. Your average non-URM applicant probably would have been hurt much worse by applying as late as you did.

User avatar
Br3v
Posts: 4174
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby Br3v » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:05 am

rinkrat19 wrote:It DRASTICALLY reduces your chances. Some schools have been admitting people since before Christmas. Classes are filling up. You're competing for a much smaller number of open spots. You're very likely to get waitlisted at schools that would have accepted you, and rejected at schools that would have waitlisted you.


When is the earliest people get accepted? There has to be some people who apply first day right?

User avatar
rinkrat19
Posts: 13909
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:35 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:18 am

Br3v wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It DRASTICALLY reduces your chances. Some schools have been admitting people since before Christmas. Classes are filling up. You're competing for a much smaller number of open spots. You're very likely to get waitlisted at schools that would have accepted you, and rejected at schools that would have waitlisted you.


When is the earliest people get accepted? There has to be some people who apply first day right?
I think the first acceptances I recall the past two cycles were the week before Christmas. I don't know if they were the VERY first acceptances sent out, though.

User avatar
Br3v
Posts: 4174
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby Br3v » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:03 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Br3v wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It DRASTICALLY reduces your chances. Some schools have been admitting people since before Christmas. Classes are filling up. You're competing for a much smaller number of open spots. You're very likely to get waitlisted at schools that would have accepted you, and rejected at schools that would have waitlisted you.


When is the earliest people get accepted? There has to be some people who apply first day right?
I think the first acceptances I recall the past two cycles were the week before Christmas. I don't know if they were the VERY first acceptances sent out, though.


I imagined it being before this. Like UVA opens sept 1 and Ed is 15 days

User avatar
rinkrat19
Posts: 13909
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:35 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:05 pm

Br3v wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
Br3v wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It DRASTICALLY reduces your chances. Some schools have been admitting people since before Christmas. Classes are filling up. You're competing for a much smaller number of open spots. You're very likely to get waitlisted at schools that would have accepted you, and rejected at schools that would have waitlisted you.


When is the earliest people get accepted? There has to be some people who apply first day right?
I think the first acceptances I recall the past two cycles were the week before Christmas. I don't know if they were the VERY first acceptances sent out, though.


I imagined it being before this. Like UVA opens sept 1 and Ed is 15 days
I said they were the first acceptances that I, personally, remembered. Doesn't mean they were the first ones. I didn't apply to UVA so I didn't care when they started sending out letters.

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby bdubs » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:11 pm

Br3v wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
Br3v wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It DRASTICALLY reduces your chances. Some schools have been admitting people since before Christmas. Classes are filling up. You're competing for a much smaller number of open spots. You're very likely to get waitlisted at schools that would have accepted you, and rejected at schools that would have waitlisted you.


When is the earliest people get accepted? There has to be some people who apply first day right?
I think the first acceptances I recall the past two cycles were the week before Christmas. I don't know if they were the VERY first acceptances sent out, though.


I imagined it being before this. Like UVA opens sept 1 and Ed is 15 days


This isn't a hard question to answer using LSN.

This is the first person to report receiving an acceptance from UVA (not even ED!) in early september. He wasn't the only person reporting an acceptance during that time, so I think it's probably legit.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Acumnampata

User avatar
20130312
Posts: 3842
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:53 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby 20130312 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:52 pm

bdubs wrote:This isn't a hard question to answer using LSN.

This is the first person to report receiving an acceptance from UVA (not even ED!) in early september. He wasn't the only person reporting an acceptance during that time, so I think it's probably legit.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Acumnampata


This guy heard from Yale before Christmas? Holy smokes, Batman.

jd5
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:44 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby jd5 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:50 pm

bdubs wrote:
Geneva wrote:in at stanford. applied in january and didn't turn in letter of good standing from my undergrad until late feb.


Congrats! People reading this thread in the future should probably recognize that being a URM really changes things. Your average non-URM applicant probably would have been hurt much worse by applying as late as you did.


I applied January 26, and I've gotten in everywhere so far (still waiting on Yale...), with a full ride at Columbia. I'm not a URM.

By all means, apply as early as you can in the cycle; I'm sure a late application can hurt on the margins. But people on TLS overemphasize it, perhaps because it's one of the few things very much still in the control of the applicant (as opposed to, e.g., undergraduate GPA). I spent weeks agonizing over whether I should wait a year because I took threads on here too seriously. If you have the right numbers and you're an attractive applicant, you're probably going to get in no matter when you apply.

User avatar
rinkrat19
Posts: 13909
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:35 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:57 pm

jd5 wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Geneva wrote:in at stanford. applied in january and didn't turn in letter of good standing from my undergrad until late feb.


Congrats! People reading this thread in the future should probably recognize that being a URM really changes things. Your average non-URM applicant probably would have been hurt much worse by applying as late as you did.


I applied January 26, and I've gotten in everywhere so far (still waiting on Yale...), with a full ride at Columbia. I'm not a URM.

By all means, apply as early as you can in the cycle; I'm sure a late application can hurt on the margins. But people on TLS overemphasize it, perhaps because it's one of the few things very much still in the control of the applicant (as opposed to, e.g., undergraduate GPA). I spent weeks agonizing over whether I should wait a year because I took threads on here too seriously. If you have the right numbers and you're an attractive applicant, you're probably going to get in no matter when you apply.
Says the 3.8/177. Come on, man, you could murder a baby and get in almost anywhere. Down here in the real world it's a little more complicated.

jd5
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:44 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby jd5 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:59 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Says the 3.8/177. Come on, man, you could murder a baby and get in almost anywhere. Down here in the real world it's a little more complicated.


OK, fair. I guess I just want to emphasize that application timing isn't going to turn a presumptive admit into a WL or a rejection. You could get that impression from reading some posts on TLS.

User avatar
JustE
Posts: 1330
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:49 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby JustE » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:09 pm

Geneva wrote:So far, applying in Jan/Feb doesn't seem to have had an impact on my cycle. We'll see what happens with my app to Harvard (not holding my breath), but in at several T14 schools with my super late apps. Just saying.


Yeah, but what are the chances you would have gotten cash w/ an earlier app? Judging from personal experience an early app is huge, even for non-URMs.

User avatar
Br3v
Posts: 4174
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby Br3v » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:12 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
bdubs wrote:This isn't a hard question to answer using LSN.

This is the first person to report receiving an acceptance from UVA (not even ED!) in early september. He wasn't the only person reporting an acceptance during that time, so I think it's probably legit.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Acumnampata


This guy heard from Yale before Christmas? Holy smokes, Batman.


Is that odd to the point of questioning the authenticity?

Geneva
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:32 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby Geneva » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:43 pm

JustE wrote:
Geneva wrote:So far, applying in Jan/Feb doesn't seem to have had an impact on my cycle. We'll see what happens with my app to Harvard (not holding my breath), but in at several T14 schools with my super late apps. Just saying.


Yeah, but what are the chances you would have gotten cash w/ an earlier app? Judging from personal experience an early app is huge, even for non-URMs.


Valid. Luckily Stanford's aid is entirely need-based, which means the tardiness of my application shouldn't hurt me there...
Another point of potential interest: my alma mater didn't even send the required dean's certification form to Stanford until LATE February and my application only went under review a few weeks ago. I think part of the reason that the higher ranked schools are so slow in rendering decisions is that they want to see how the entire applicant pool shapes up before giving away seats. Obviously I would encourage people to get materials in ASAP, but I don't think that timing is as critical as TLS makes it out to be.

Geneva
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:32 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby Geneva » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:54 pm

It seems that for the Stanford, Yale, and Columbia (and probably some other top schools), applying early does not give an edge. If you apply to these schools early and you are accepted early, you probs would have been accepted anyway. If you do not apply early and would have been accepted early, you probably will be accepted later in the cycle. It seems that borderline candidates that apply early to these schools simply end up waiting for 6+ months, whereas "stronger" (very subjective, especially in the case of Stanford) candidates get accepted shortly after going under review.

kemmek
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:09 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby kemmek » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:18 am

jd5 wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:Says the 3.8/177. Come on, man, you could murder a baby and get in almost anywhere. Down here in the real world it's a little more complicated.


OK, fair. I guess I just want to emphasize that application timing isn't going to turn a presumptive admit into a WL or a rejection. You could get that impression from reading some posts on TLS.


Just want to second this. I have pretty good stats (~3.9/173), and I almost didn't apply this year because I had the impression (from reading TLS) that applying late would significantly hurt my chances. I applied toward the end of January and have been accepted everywhere I've heard back from (also waiting on Yale, but a rejection there wouldn't be due to application timing).

It was hard for me to figure out the accuracy of the late application "penalty," since there aren't many post-December data points on LSN, but at least based on my experience, a late January application isn't as harmful as TLS wisdom suggests.

Geneva
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:32 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby Geneva » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:55 pm

jd5 wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:Says the 3.8/177. Come on, man, you could murder a baby and get in almost anywhere. Down here in the real world it's a little more complicated.


OK, fair. I guess I just want to emphasize that application timing isn't going to turn a presumptive admit into a WL or a rejection. You could get that impression from reading some posts on TLS.


congrats on yale! please see PM for a question

User avatar
R86
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:03 pm

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby R86 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:02 pm

:D
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
noleknight16
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:09 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby noleknight16 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:03 pm

Depends on the school, but in general it's a bad idea. I applied to Emory on the very last day with a well below median LSAT and got waitlisted.

Geneva
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:32 am

Re: How Detrimental is it to apply in February?

Postby Geneva » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:04 pm

R86 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
RachaelRachelle wrote:I applied to all my schools in February and still am applying for some this week (with fee waivers). So far I've gotten into all of them, so I think people are overstating how much it matters. Probably matters more for financial aid.


LOL at this being just a throwaway consideration.


:D Exactly. This is, in my opinion, the primary consideration when thinking about applying late. In my brief dance with the idea of going to law school, I've spoken with two college Deans of Admission. Both told me that, while there was still "some money available," it would be extremely tight late in the cycle and, if scholarships were a major concern, waiting and applying early would be the best choice.


Does this refer to merit money or does it apply to need-based aid as well?




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot], yhchoi1687 and 5 guests