12 more schools sued

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HarlandBassett
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Re: 12 more schools sued

Postby HarlandBassett » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:44 am

the fraud is so systematic that it may end up like the big banks where the DOJ would levy only light fines here and there, nothing earth-shattering.

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HarlandBassett
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Re: 12 more schools sued

Postby HarlandBassett » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:50 am


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observationalist
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Re: 12 more schools sued

Postby observationalist » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:34 pm

gthopeful wrote:
mrtoren wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:I know I'm beating the living shit out of a dead horse, but it needs to be said: this isn't a law school problem, this is an ABA problem. I rarely agree with MTal, but this really is the tip of the iceberg. The entire thing needs reformed. I'm not sure if litigation like this is the answer, but it's a start.

I agree that the schools need to undergo massive reforms, but when do you hold the students who made these poor decisions accountable? They had delusions of grandeur that could not have been quashed by even the most transparent of statistics. I hope the settlements are small and the changes large. These graduates don't deserve a couple million dollars in damages.


I definitely agree the students need to be held accountable for this too...I too once had desires to apply to a John Marshall or golden gate after they flooded my mailboxes both physical and email with fee waivers And brochures...some even offering 30,000 scholarships before I even apply...but by looking this forum for not a couple of hours I knew that would be a mistake...the information is out there about these schools even if it's not from the schools itself students have to just be diligent enough to find it...how does somebody justify going in hundreds of thousands of debt and not even doing basic google searches about law school and stumble across this forum...that. Eing said reform does need to. Come for these schools as well.


Keep in mind what years we're talking about when assessing whether these graduates should be to blame for their decisions to believe those brochures. Outside of the scambloggers there was virtually nobody calling attention to the systemic nature of the fraud prior to 2008. That was the same year the bottom fell out of biglaw summer hiring and people first realized an abnormally large number of 2009 and 2010 graduates would fall through the cracks compared with previous years. Before that, the general story being told was that people who worked hard and ended up in the top of their class would be rewarded with excellent job prospects, while everyone else would fall back on still-decent jobs in midlaw and the government sector. Even really crappy law schools would place a few grads into biglaw. Low but undisclosed reporting rates would then ensure the salaries of those few grads could be presented as if they were the median outcomes for people in the private sector. Schools were essentially outdoing each other to make their program look like the best one out there, and nobody was refuting their claims. Without any reliable sources of information pointing to the contrary and almost no media attention on the issue, it was much easier to write off the few scambloggers who were operating back then as a fringe minority of disgruntled grads who were too lazy or too dumb to find a job.

The conversation has changed quite significantly in the past two years. But people are still overvaluing law degrees and many schools are still doing everything they can to prevent their consumers from seeing the actual outcomes of their graduates. To the extent schools are still hiding information in a way designed to fool people into attending at an inflated sticker price, they still risk being found liable for continuing to violate state consumer protection laws.

Of the lawsuits filed so far, at least one contemplates current law students being able to join the class if it's certified. People who are still in their first year of law school certainly had access to third party information last year that should have been interpreted as warning signs. But I still doubt many were fully aware of the extent to which the school they chose to attend was misleading them at the time. It is really difficult to grasp the level of deception until you're on the inside and observing the people around you. It's just something people don't find out about until after they've enrolled and see how many 2Ls and 3Ls are struggling to secure full time, permanent legal work after graduation. Only 1% of all ABA-approved law schools were disclosing the number of 2010 grads who found full time, long term legal jobs as of last month.

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sunynp
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Re: 12 more schools sued

Postby sunynp » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:52 pm

The lawsuit against thomas jefferson withstood the motion to dismiss which was denied today.

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/03/twenty-m ... -lawsuits/

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: 12 more schools sued

Postby JusticeHarlan » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:16 pm

sunynp wrote:The lawsuit against thomas jefferson withstood the motion to dismiss which was denied today.

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/03/twenty-m ... -lawsuits/

This is gonna get real interesting now that they get to discovery.

blsingindisguise
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Re: 12 more schools sued

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:41 pm

Thomas Jefferson LS's demurrer (motion to dismiss) is pretty bad. They actually have the nerve to argue that the plaintiff should have realized that the employment stats included non-lawyer positions since the bar passage rate was lower than the employment rate.

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HarlandBassett
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Re: 12 more schools sued

Postby HarlandBassett » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:45 am

JusticeHarlan wrote:
sunynp wrote:The lawsuit against thomas jefferson withstood the motion to dismiss which was denied today.

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/03/twenty-m ... -lawsuits/

This is gonna get real interesting now that they get to discovery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLv6aiwTkqI




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