I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

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ThreeRivers
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby ThreeRivers » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:00 pm

Some of the salaries thrown around as not a lot of $ made me wonder how rich of a household some posters grew up in lol

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IAFG
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby IAFG » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:09 pm

surfer wrote:I think even many graduates from HYS will struggle to make that much unless they get a JD/MBA or something. I'm saying many, not all.

You are talking out of your ass. Please check out the Guide Robert Half Salary (for firms and for in-house) and don't neglect to take heed of the multipliers for cities.

I think people are really down on the exit options out of biglaw because so many people found them so incredibly fucked in the recent lay-offs/no-offers/general suck that was the legal market recently, but that doesn't mean most lawyers who leave biglaw end up broke.

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jk2011
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby jk2011 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:17 pm

surfer wrote:
Liquox wrote:
surfer wrote:
The difference is that starting radiologist, anesthesiologist, or ER doc salaries can be $250 - 300k depending on the region. It would be difficult for any attorney to catch up with that. Even psychiatrists and pediatricians start at six figures.




funny story. have you tried being a pre-med? the mcat makes the lsat look like the sat.

i'm not surprised most of them eventually get paid more than most of us do. a failed pre-med can go to a T10 law school. a failed pre-law flips burgers at mcdonalds.


Yes, I know. I didn't just make those numbers up. They are actual offers that people I know have received. Not every specialty has the potential to make that much though. If you go into psych, family, or peds there is a ceiling.

I think even many graduates from HYS will struggle to make that much unless they get a JD/MBA or something. I'm saying many, not all.

But is making $150k really so bad? You might have to settle on the E class instead of an S. You'd still be making more than 99% of Americans.

By the way, a failed pre-law student can get into med school. It would only take a couple years of classes, volunteer work, etc. Is that easy? No. But few things worth doing are easy. What would Bodhi do?


The 1% starts around 240k so actually 150k is only richer than about 98%. First world problems are rough.

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surfer
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby surfer » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:29 pm

IAFG wrote:You are talking out of your ass.


Nice attitude IAFG :P

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IAFG
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby IAFG » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:36 pm

surfer wrote:
IAFG wrote:You are talking out of your ass.


Nice attitude IAFG :P

Bite me.

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romothesavior
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:33 am

surfer wrote:
IAFG wrote:You are talking out of your ass.


Nice attitude IAFG :P

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Also @ OP... thank you for your earth-shattering findings. I'm sure many will alter their course because of it.

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James Bond
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby James Bond » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:23 pm

IAFG wrote:That is why this site limits itself to top law schools, a sub-demographic of people among whom most people actually do make six figures starting out. Most people around here already get it.


Your point is solid but I seriously question your assertion that most people on TLS graduate with 100k+ jobs.

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James Bond
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby James Bond » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:25 pm

Liquox wrote:the mcat makes the lsat look like the sat.


Image
Last edited by James Bond on Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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James Bond
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby James Bond » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:26 pm

jk2011 wrote:The 1% starts around 240k so actually 150k is only richer than about 98%. First world problems are rough.


The fabled "1%" in America is actually just below or just above $500k, depending on your source.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby moneybagsphd » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:28 pm

James Bond wrote:
Liquox wrote:have you tried being a pre-med? the mcat makes the lsat look like the sat.


Image

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romothesavior
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:30 pm

James Bond wrote:
IAFG wrote:That is why this site limits itself to top law schools, a sub-demographic of people among whom most people actually do make six figures starting out. Most people around here already get it.


Your point is solid but I seriously question your assertion that most people on TLS graduate with 100k+ jobs.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of TLS regulars (say active posters with 1,000+ posts) who are 2Ls and 3Ls had or have SAs.

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ColtsFan88
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby ColtsFan88 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:38 pm

romothesavior wrote:
James Bond wrote:
IAFG wrote:That is why this site limits itself to top law schools, a sub-demographic of people among whom most people actually do make six figures starting out. Most people around here already get it.


Your point is solid but I seriously question your assertion that most people on TLS graduate with 100k+ jobs.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of TLS regulars (say active posters with 1,000+ posts) who are 2Ls and 3Ls had or have SAs.


Well, you sure are limiting your sample aren't you.

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Kikero
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Kikero » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:52 pm

James Bond wrote:
jk2011 wrote:The 1% starts around 240k so actually 150k is only richer than about 98%. First world problems are rough.


The fabled "1%" in America is actually just below or just above $500k, depending on your source.


I heard from a very good source that it was around 300k just before Christmas. I was given a specific number and not something like "around 300k" so I'm inclined to believe it. Of course there are all sorts of ways to calculate income (individual, family, including alternative compensation, inflation-adjusted, etc.) so I'm sure there's a range of incomes that could or could not be considered the top 1%.

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romothesavior
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:06 pm

ColtsFan88 wrote:Well, you sure are limiting your sample aren't you.

I imagine that is what IAFG had in mind, unless she was including every person who has ever posted on here.

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jk2011
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby jk2011 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:28 pm

Kikero wrote:
James Bond wrote:
jk2011 wrote:The 1% starts around 240k so actually 150k is only richer than about 98%. First world problems are rough.


The fabled "1%" in America is actually just below or just above $500k, depending on your source.


I heard from a very good source that it was around 300k just before Christmas. I was given a specific number and not something like "around 300k" so I'm inclined to believe it. Of course there are all sorts of ways to calculate income (individual, family, including alternative compensation, inflation-adjusted, etc.) so I'm sure there's a range of incomes that could or could not be considered the top 1%.


Not really a range, the 1.00% line is going to be an exact number not multiple ones.

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Kikero
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Kikero » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:55 pm

jk2011 wrote:
Kikero wrote:
James Bond wrote:
jk2011 wrote:The 1% starts around 240k so actually 150k is only richer than about 98%. First world problems are rough.


The fabled "1%" in America is actually just below or just above $500k, depending on your source.


I heard from a very good source that it was around 300k just before Christmas. I was given a specific number and not something like "around 300k" so I'm inclined to believe it. Of course there are all sorts of ways to calculate income (individual, family, including alternative compensation, inflation-adjusted, etc.) so I'm sure there's a range of incomes that could or could not be considered the top 1%.


Not really a range, the 1.00% line is going to be an exact number not multiple ones.


Say that 250k was the 1% number (99% of all households make below this amount). A man makes 150k and his wife makes 100k, they qualify as the top 1%. Now, say there is a man who makes 240k and his wife makes nothing. They are not in the top 1% of households, but the man is in the top 1% of income-earners. Now say there is an unmarried man who makes 200k, but is given 200k worth of stock options (or some other non-cash compensation), is he in the top 1%?

Also, should the line be set at taxable income or income after taxes? If two people make 250k but one pays less in taxes because his/her income comes from capital gains is one in the top 1% and one not? Both? Neither? If you set the 1% number on a pre-tax income of $250k then you would be creating a range of final incomes (or whatever the proper term is) that qualify for the top 1% from something like $175k-250k. Similarly if you set the 1% number at $250k after taxes, you create a range of pre-tax incomes that qualify as the top 1% from $250k to about $350k.

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jk2011
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby jk2011 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:09 pm

The fabled "1%" in America is actually just below or just above $500k, depending on your source.[/quote]

I heard from a very good source that it was around 300k just before Christmas. I was given a specific number and not something like "around 300k" so I'm inclined to believe it. Of course there are all sorts of ways to calculate income (individual, family, including alternative compensation, inflation-adjusted, etc.) so I'm sure there's a range of incomes that could or could not be considered the top 1%.[/quote]

Not really a range, the 1.00% line is going to be an exact number not multiple ones.[/quote]

Say that 250k was the 1% number (99% of all households make below this amount). A man makes 150k and his wife makes 100k, they qualify as the top 1%. Now, say there is a man who makes 240k and his wife makes nothing. They are not in the top 1% of households, but the man is in the top 1% of income-earners. Now say there is an unmarried man who makes 200k, but is given 200k worth of stock options (or some other non-cash compensation), is he in the top 1%?

Also, should the line be set at taxable income or income after taxes? If two people make 250k but one pays less in taxes because his/her income comes from capital gains is one in the top 1% and one not? Both? Neither? If you set the 1% number on a pre-tax income of $250k then you would be creating a range of final incomes (or whatever the proper term is) that qualify for the top 1% from something like $175k-250k. Similarly if you set the 1% number at $250k after taxes, you create a range of pre-tax incomes that qualify as the top 1% from $250k to about $350k.[/quote]

Ahh lol, now I see what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying. Yea it can definitely be ambiguous.

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jk2011
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby jk2011 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:59 am

More on this 1% topic, are there any measures that take into account regional costs of living? Or do they all just look solely at income, not taking into account purchasing power based on where one lives?

LawBrah
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby LawBrah » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:34 pm

Not to mention that becoming a lawyer is a frigging joke these days.

my high school buddy with 2.4 gpa with 149 lsat got into 4 fucking law schools already, and he is telling everyone how he is a future lawyer about to make shit ton of money, etc.

this profession has become an absolute fucking joke, and anyone and his brother can get into some law school and even a retard can become a lawyer. in many other countries, lawyers are perceived to be the most elite jobs and most lawyers get good employment, due to supply vs demand control.

In good ole USA, half of law grads are unemployed with shit ton of debt, and still loads of retards are matriculating at shit law schools. Now, I think the moral solution here is for ABA to step in and forcibly close down half the law schools in the fucking country.

Fuck these clowns, and fuck these shitty law school dickheads that charge 60k a year for their shitty garbage degree. Not only are ABA and shitty law schools fucking over their students' future, but they are also tainting the prestige of this profession.

I'm embarrassed when I have to admit I'm a lawyer in the future when it won't be presitgious anymore

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Lil Kev
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Lil Kev » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:41 pm

This thread is filled with an amazing wealth of information that I never knew before.

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Kikero
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Kikero » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:22 pm

LawBrah wrote:
I'm embarrassed when I have to admit I'm a lawyer in the future when it won't be presitgious anymore


Me too. Being presitgious in the future was the main reason I decided to go to law school. 8)

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romothesavior
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:54 pm

LawBrah wrote:Not to mention that becoming a lawyer is a frigging joke these days.

my high school buddy with 2.4 gpa with 149 lsat got into 4 fucking law schools already, and he is telling everyone how he is a future lawyer about to make shit ton of money, etc.

this profession has become an absolute fucking joke, and anyone and his brother can get into some law school and even a retard can become a lawyer. in many other countries, lawyers are perceived to be the most elite jobs and most lawyers get good employment, due to supply vs demand control.

In good ole USA, half of law grads are unemployed with shit ton of debt, and still loads of retards are matriculating at shit law schools. Now, I think the moral solution here is for ABA to step in and forcibly close down half the law schools in the fucking country.

Fuck these clowns, and fuck these shitty law school dickheads that charge 60k a year for their shitty garbage degree. Not only are ABA and shitty law schools fucking over their students' future, but they are also tainting the prestige of this profession.

I'm embarrassed when I have to admit I'm a lawyer in the future when it won't be presitgious anymore

Dude, this is like going to NASA and telling them about your recent discovery that the sun sits at the center of the solar system. They, and we, already know.

You're preaching to the choir. Literally nothing you have said is even remotely fresh, informative, helpful, or insightful.

DevFus
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby DevFus » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:59 pm

LawBrah wrote:Not to mention that becoming a lawyer is a frigging joke these days.

my high school buddy with 2.4 gpa with 149 lsat got into 4 fucking law schools already, and he is telling everyone how he is a future lawyer about to make shit ton of money, etc.

this profession has become an absolute fucking joke, and anyone and his brother can get into some law school and even a retard can become a lawyer. in many other countries, lawyers are perceived to be the most elite jobs and most lawyers get good employment, due to supply vs demand control.

In good ole USA, half of law grads are unemployed with shit ton of debt, and still loads of retards are matriculating at shit law schools. Now, I think the moral solution here is for ABA to step in and forcibly close down half the law schools in the fucking country.

Fuck these clowns, and fuck these shitty law school dickheads that charge 60k a year for their shitty garbage degree. Not only are ABA and shitty law schools fucking over their students' future, but they are also tainting the prestige of this profession.

I'm embarrassed when I have to admit I'm a lawyer in the future when it won't be presitgious anymore


If you are saying that anyone can get into law school and that half of all law school graduates are unemployed, isn't this a direct reflection of the market working? Shouldn't it be the responsibility of the student to consider if they "have what it takes" prior to beginning the journey? Look at it like this, just because you can drive a shitty 250cc Honda Rebel and the dealership will sell you a Harley Fat Boy, doesn't mean you have the ability to ride it.

It is the ass clowns who think life is easy once they obtain "x" who have screwed everything up. Personal Responsibility!!

b33eazy
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby b33eazy » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:37 pm

DevFus wrote:
LawBrah wrote:Not to mention that becoming a lawyer is a frigging joke these days.

my high school buddy with 2.4 gpa with 149 lsat got into 4 fucking law schools already, and he is telling everyone how he is a future lawyer about to make shit ton of money, etc.

this profession has become an absolute fucking joke, and anyone and his brother can get into some law school and even a retard can become a lawyer. in many other countries, lawyers are perceived to be the most elite jobs and most lawyers get good employment, due to supply vs demand control.

In good ole USA, half of law grads are unemployed with shit ton of debt, and still loads of retards are matriculating at shit law schools. Now, I think the moral solution here is for ABA to step in and forcibly close down half the law schools in the fucking country.

Fuck these clowns, and fuck these shitty law school dickheads that charge 60k a year for their shitty garbage degree. Not only are ABA and shitty law schools fucking over their students' future, but they are also tainting the prestige of this profession.

I'm embarrassed when I have to admit I'm a lawyer in the future when it won't be presitgious anymore


If you are saying that anyone can get into law school and that half of all law school graduates are unemployed, isn't this a direct reflection of the market working? Shouldn't it be the responsibility of the student to consider if they "have what it takes" prior to beginning the journey? Look at it like this, just because you can drive a shitty 250cc Honda Rebel and the dealership will sell you a Harley Fat Boy, doesn't mean you have the ability to ride it.

It is the ass clowns who think life is easy once they obtain "x" who have screwed everything up. Personal Responsibility!!


No, it goes further than that. People like this won't sit at home with a job, they will start crappy firms and take any lawsuit that comes there way. In addition, with an over saturation of attorneys, that affects salaries. It decreases it and makes it worse for everyone. Look at medical schools, it is near impossible to get into a medical school with a sub 3.0 gpa. There is an over saturation of law schools and it's a big scam to people who think they can go to Bim Bam Law School and make six figures, so they can pay off their large loan. As a matter of fact, I would only consider going to law school if I either get a t14 or have most of my tuition covered at a t2x.

stargazin
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby stargazin » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:21 pm

Not to mention that becoming a lawyer is a frigging joke these days.

my high school buddy with 2.4 gpa with 149 lsat got into 4 fucking law schools already, and he is telling everyone how he is a future lawyer about to make shit ton of money, etc.

this profession has become an absolute fucking joke, and anyone and his brother can get into some law school and even a retard can become a lawyer. in many other countries, lawyers are perceived to be the most elite jobs and most lawyers get good employment, due to supply vs demand control.

In good ole USA, half of law grads are unemployed with shit ton of debt, and still loads of retards are matriculating at shit law schools. Now, I think the moral solution here is for ABA to step in and forcibly close down half the law schools in the fucking country.

Fuck these clowns, and fuck these shitty law school dickheads that charge 60k a year for their shitty garbage degree. Not only are ABA and shitty law schools fucking over their students' future, but they are also tainting the prestige of this profession.

I'm embarrassed when I have to admit I'm a lawyer in the future when it won't be presitgious anymore


If you're saying that schools should be closed down in order to accomodate your need for prestige, then it's a slippery slope, no? Perhaps Harvard/Yale/Stanford law students will want to demand that the ABA limit the number of law schools to only those three, so that other lower ranked law schools will not "sully" their prestige or decrease their salaries by producing more lawyers. They could demand that state bars offer graduates of other law schools only a "junior lawyer" license, and if you have any kind of really important business, you must go to the HYS grads who will then charge you $100,000 an hour.




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