I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

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LawBrah
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I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby LawBrah » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:19 pm

Not sure how most lawyers ever make more than 150k or so, even in later years; simply put: it is a service-driven profession and is not a career where one can really "create" wealth

Bigfed tops at 150k, no matter how long you're in, state govt is even less; and getting bigfed = unicorn

Most reputable law firms dont pay associates more than 100k starting out, and will burn you out after a few years if youre not partner, maybe youre making 140-150k? Contrary to popular belief, most people dont get BIGLAW.

Plaintiff's side stuff/shitlaw is mostly garbage. They may pay entry-level people anywhere from 30-70k. Making it big as a plaintiff's lawyer is, in my experience, tantamount to winning the lottery. You have to be a certain "kind" of personality to do well at that.

So where does that leave the average lawyer? I honestly would not be surprised if half of law graduates actually end of filtering out of the profession within 5 years of graduation. I'm some one who is a couple years out and doing OK (federal clerkship) but even i am wondering how much i really want to be a lawyer or whether this is going to afford me a financially stable life etc.

Real Madrid
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Real Madrid » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:22 pm

You should go public with these findings.

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IAFG
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby IAFG » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:22 pm

That is why this site limits itself to top law schools, a sub-demographic of people among whom most people actually do make six figures starting out. Most people around here already get it.
Last edited by IAFG on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby kalvano » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:23 pm

I think you need a remedial math course.

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JoeFish
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby JoeFish » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:26 pm

LawBrah wrote:Contrary to popular belief, most people dont get BIGLAW.

WHAT?! No... frickin'... way...
LawBrah wrote:Plaintiff's side stuff/shitlaw is mostly garbage.

Oh... My... God... I just realized why they call it shitlaw. I thought it was named after Justice Shit.

...
what is this i dont even

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sunynp
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby sunynp » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:58 pm

What kind of clerkship are you doing?

paulinaporizkova
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:18 pm

LawBrah wrote:I'm some one who is a couple years out and doing OK (federal clerkship)


-____-

jared6180
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby jared6180 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:02 pm

in my area making $50-75k is really good money.

STLMizzou
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby STLMizzou » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:21 pm

jared6180 wrote:in my area making $50-75k is really good money.



Pleb

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Txrb182sc
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Txrb182sc » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:14 pm

This is why you don't practice law for the money. You practice law because it's something you actually want to do in life.

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hoos89
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:33 pm

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Liquox
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Liquox » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:45 am

the average doctor fresh out of medical school works 12 hours a day for the next 3 years for $45,000 dollars, then another 3 years for $60,000 despite 4 years of medical school expenses ~$250k in debt.

the average investment banker fresh out of business school works 12-15 hours a day making $85,000 with ??? chances of a raise (not really)

guess what? no such thing as easy money, especially easy big money.

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surfer
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby surfer » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:14 am

Liquox wrote:the average doctor fresh out of medical school works 12 hours a day for the next 3 years for $45,000 dollars, then another 3 years for $60,000 despite 4 years of medical school expenses ~$250k in debt.

the average investment banker fresh out of business school works 12-15 hours a day making $85,000 with ??? chances of a raise (not really)

guess what? no such thing as easy money, especially easy big money.


The difference is that starting radiologist, anesthesiologist, or ER doc salaries can be $250 - 300k depending on the region. It would be difficult for any attorney to catch up with that. Even psychiatrists and pediatricians start at six figures.

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IAFG
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby IAFG » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:27 am

surfer wrote:
Liquox wrote:the average doctor fresh out of medical school works 12 hours a day for the next 3 years for $45,000 dollars, then another 3 years for $60,000 despite 4 years of medical school expenses ~$250k in debt.

the average investment banker fresh out of business school works 12-15 hours a day making $85,000 with ??? chances of a raise (not really)

guess what? no such thing as easy money, especially easy big money.


The difference is that starting radiologist, anesthesiologist, or ER doc salaries can be $250 - 300k depending on the region. It would be difficult for any attorney to catch up with that. Even psychiatrists and pediatricians start at six figures.

10 years after the commencement of law school it's not that hard to be at $300k; this doesn't prove your point at all.

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Errzii
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Errzii » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:45 am

Too bad most people that want to go to law school can't math. lolhumanities majors.

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surfer
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby surfer » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:01 am

IAFG wrote:
surfer wrote:
Liquox wrote:the average doctor fresh out of medical school works 12 hours a day for the next 3 years for $45,000 dollars, then another 3 years for $60,000 despite 4 years of medical school expenses ~$250k in debt.

the average investment banker fresh out of business school works 12-15 hours a day making $85,000 with ??? chances of a raise (not really)

guess what? no such thing as easy money, especially easy big money.


The difference is that starting radiologist, anesthesiologist, or ER doc salaries can be $250 - 300k depending on the region. It would be difficult for any attorney to catch up with that. Even psychiatrists and pediatricians start at six figures.

10 years after the commencement of law school it's not that hard to be at $300k; this doesn't prove your point at all.


My point is that many physicians are guaranteed salaries in this range. Attorneys are not. I never said it wasn't possible for a lawyer to have this income, but it is difficult. In addition, an ER residency is typically 3 years long not 10.

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IAFG
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby IAFG » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:45 am

surfer wrote:My point is that many physicians are guaranteed salaries in this range. Attorneys are not. I never said it wasn't possible for a lawyer to have this income, but it is difficult. In addition, an ER residency is typically 3 years long not 10.

I said commencement of school, not graduation. While there aren't guarantees in law, mid-career salaries from top schools are around ~200k on average, and that's taking into account all the "mommy trackers" and other folks who downshift into gov't/public interest. I don't think it's difficult at all for a lawyer from a top school to enter into private practice and maintain a $300k salary.

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surfer
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby surfer » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:06 am

IAFG wrote:
surfer wrote:My point is that many physicians are guaranteed salaries in this range. Attorneys are not. I never said it wasn't possible for a lawyer to have this income, but it is difficult. In addition, an ER residency is typically 3 years long not 10.

I said commencement of school, not graduation. While there aren't guarantees in law, mid-career salaries from top schools are around ~200k on average, and that's taking into account all the "mommy trackers" and other folks who downshift into gov't/public interest. I don't think it's difficult at all for a lawyer from a top school to enter into private practice and maintain a $300k salary.


You're right. You did say commencement of school. I missed that.

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sunynp
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby sunynp » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:20 am

IAFG wrote:
surfer wrote:My point is that many physicians are guaranteed salaries in this range. Attorneys are not. I never said it wasn't possible for a lawyer to have this income, but it is difficult. In addition, an ER residency is typically 3 years long not 10.

I said commencement of school, not graduation. While there aren't guarantees in law, mid-career salaries from top schools are around ~200k on average, and that's taking into account all the "mommy trackers" and other folks who downshift into gov't/public interest. I don't think it's difficult at all for a lawyer from a top school to enter into private practice and maintain a $300k salary.

So which firms are paying 7th years that much? I thought salaries were under 300,000. And then after 8th year if you dont make partner you are looking for work. I'm not arguing, I just wonder how many attorneys from top schools are maintaining that salary. It isn't easy to find salary information for attorneys 10 years out.

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IAFG
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby IAFG » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:18 pm

sunynp wrote:
IAFG wrote:
surfer wrote:My point is that many physicians are guaranteed salaries in this range. Attorneys are not. I never said it wasn't possible for a lawyer to have this income, but it is difficult. In addition, an ER residency is typically 3 years long not 10.

I said commencement of school, not graduation. While there aren't guarantees in law, mid-career salaries from top schools are around ~200k on average, and that's taking into account all the "mommy trackers" and other folks who downshift into gov't/public interest. I don't think it's difficult at all for a lawyer from a top school to enter into private practice and maintain a $300k salary.

So which firms are paying 7th years that much? I thought salaries were under 300,000. And then after 8th year if you dont make partner you are looking for work. I'm not arguing, I just wonder how many attorneys from top schools are maintaining that salary. It isn't easy to find salary information for attorneys 10 years out.

When you leave a firm you don't end up waiting tables. There are all kinds of ways people exit, and many are quite lucrative, like in-house counsel for a former client, GC for a company, partner at another firm or a firm in a smaller city, "of counsel" at a firm due to some specialized expertise, etc. The whole point of prestigious firms is to have great exit options.

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Liquox
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Liquox » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:28 pm

surfer wrote:
The difference is that starting radiologist, anesthesiologist, or ER doc salaries can be $250 - 300k depending on the region. It would be difficult for any attorney to catch up with that. Even psychiatrists and pediatricians start at six figures.




funny story. have you tried being a pre-med? the mcat makes the lsat look like the sat.

i'm not surprised most of them eventually get paid more than most of us do. a failed pre-med can go to a T10 law school. a failed pre-law flips burgers at mcdonalds.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby yngblkgifted » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:35 pm

Liquox wrote:
surfer wrote:
The difference is that starting radiologist, anesthesiologist, or ER doc salaries can be $250 - 300k depending on the region. It would be difficult for any attorney to catch up with that. Even psychiatrists and pediatricians start at six figures.




funny story. have you tried being a pre-med? the mcat makes the lsat look like the sat.

i'm not surprised most of them eventually get paid more than most of us do. a failed pre-med can go to a T10 law school. a failed pre-law flips burgers at mcdonalds.


Cool Story, bro.

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surfer
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby surfer » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:03 pm

Liquox wrote:
surfer wrote:
The difference is that starting radiologist, anesthesiologist, or ER doc salaries can be $250 - 300k depending on the region. It would be difficult for any attorney to catch up with that. Even psychiatrists and pediatricians start at six figures.




funny story. have you tried being a pre-med? the mcat makes the lsat look like the sat.

i'm not surprised most of them eventually get paid more than most of us do. a failed pre-med can go to a T10 law school. a failed pre-law flips burgers at mcdonalds.


Yes, I know. I didn't just make those numbers up. They are actual offers that people I know have received. Not every specialty has the potential to make that much though. If you go into psych, family, or peds there is a ceiling.

I think even many graduates from HYS will struggle to make that much unless they get a JD/MBA or something. I'm saying many, not all.

But is making $150k really so bad? You might have to settle on the E class instead of an S. You'd still be making more than 99% of Americans.

By the way, a failed pre-law student can get into med school. It would only take a couple years of classes, volunteer work, etc. Is that easy? No. But few things worth doing are easy. What would Bodhi do?

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smelltheglove
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby smelltheglove » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:15 pm

This thread is lame.

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Kikero
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Re: I've done the math - it's hard to make good $$$ as a lawyer

Postby Kikero » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:24 pm

Comparing doctors and lawyers like this is sort of pointless. There are some types of doctors who never make as much as the entry salary at a Biglaw firm, and there are others that make twice as much. Similarly, there are lawyers that never break six figures and lawyers that make seven.




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