Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

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Grizz
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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby Grizz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:52 am

r6_philly wrote:10/20 years out: T14 is T14, GPA/class rank gets forgotten.

Dude after a while no one cares where you went to school, especially with the kind of jobs (small firm, state govt.) you will most likely get from last in the class from a T14.

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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:47 am

Grizz wrote:
r6_philly wrote:10/20 years out: T14 is T14, GPA/class rank gets forgotten.

Dude after a while no one cares where you went to school, especially with the kind of jobs (small firm, state govt.) you will most likely get from last in the class from a T14.


It is not wrong, at least in this market here. I have worked for 10+ years before law school, and an Ivy degree is an Ivy degree in most industries and remains a big selling point. Maybe not in biglaw, but since we are probably not discussing biglaw here...

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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:49 am

PDaddy wrote:The idea that someone can be at the bottom of a T14 and compete with the top TTT students is ludicrous. There's no way a responsible partner would want to hire what amounts to a potentially lazy summer intern or graduate - regardless of what school he comes from. Bottom ranks, for better or worse, rightly or wrongly, suggest that something is lacking. In reality, that may not be true, but it may be relatively true. I'd be even more leery because I would expect T14 students to be spoiled and self-entitled.

I guess this is a long-winded way of saying that it's generally better to be #1 no matter what, but there are other factors.



I thought we are discussing the SAME person with either choice.

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Grizz
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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby Grizz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:02 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Grizz wrote:
r6_philly wrote:10/20 years out: T14 is T14, GPA/class rank gets forgotten.

Dude after a while no one cares where you went to school, especially with the kind of jobs (small firm, state govt.) you will most likely get from last in the class from a T14.


It is not wrong, at least in this market here. I have worked for 10+ years before law school, and an Ivy degree is an Ivy degree in most industries and remains a big selling point. Maybe not in biglaw, but since we are probably not discussing biglaw here...

I didn't say anything about big law

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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:04 pm

Grizz wrote:I didn't say anything about big law


Well then I stand by my statement, mostly through professional experience and not prestige obsession.

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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby Grizz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:10 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Grizz wrote:I didn't say anything about big law


Well then I stand by my statement, mostly through professional experience and not prestige obsession.

I'll stand by mine, based on my experience with a dozen odd small firms of various sizes and practice areas. New clients usually find the firms through networking, not looking online and being impressed by some sick Ivy bio. Laterals are hired based on the strength of their book and/or ability to develop that book. I don't see it.

The only place that did care somewhat that I found was the USAO. Transcripts and school were a factor in hiring decisions in my district, if only a small one.

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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:18 pm

Grizz wrote:I'll stand by mine, based on my experience with a dozen odd small firms of various sizes and practice areas. New clients usually find the firms through networking, not looking online and being impressed by some sick Ivy bio. Laterals are hired based on the strength of their book and/or ability to develop that book. I don't see it.

The only place that did care somewhat that I found was the USAO. Transcripts and school were a factor in hiring decisions in my district, if only a small one.


I meant it on the client side. Since you will be at small size practices, you have to hustle for clients. Having the right degree and selling it properly, especially in the school's own market really helps a lot.

I didn't imply to say that the degree will get you jobs directly. I meant that it will give you advantages for your practice/career and will net you better career opportunities indirectly.

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Grizz
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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby Grizz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:25 pm

r6_philly wrote:I meant it on the client side. Since you will be at small size practices, you have to hustle for clients. Having the right degree and selling it properly, especially in the school's own market really helps a lot.

I didn't imply to say that the degree will get you jobs directly. I meant that it will give you advantages for your practice/career and will net you better career opportunities indirectly.

Ah I see. I don't have a lay preftigiouf school in my home market, but for small firms I'd definitely rather be #1 at Stetson (probably would actually hit biglaw) rather than last in the class at some rando Ivy like Penn. In central FL, Stetson has quite the network.

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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:50 pm

Grizz wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I meant it on the client side. Since you will be at small size practices, you have to hustle for clients. Having the right degree and selling it properly, especially in the school's own market really helps a lot.

I didn't imply to say that the degree will get you jobs directly. I meant that it will give you advantages for your practice/career and will net you better career opportunities indirectly.

Ah I see. I don't have a lay preftigiouf school in my home market, but for small firms I'd definitely rather be #1 at Stetson (probably would actually hit biglaw) rather than last in the class at some rando Ivy like Penn. In central FL, Stetson has quite the network.



Haha goes back to the original question: which T14 and which TTT. But I supposed you can always relocate to the home market to take advantage of the better degree, but if a TTT does not have a good network back home, then it's double no.

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PDaddy
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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:32 am

r6_philly wrote:
I thought we are discussing the SAME person with either choice.


We are, but we must discuss them as two separate candidates - which is what OP is in the given scenario.

Candidate #1: OP at TTT who is ranked #1 in his/her class

v.

Candidate #2: OP attending or graduating from the lower percentiles (or very bottom) of a T14.

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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby r6_philly » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:34 am

PDaddy wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
I thought we are discussing the SAME person with either choice.


We are, but we must discuss them as two separate candidates - which is what OP is in the given scenario.

Candidate #1: OP at TTT who is ranked #1 in his/her class

v.

Candidate #2: OP attending or graduating from the lower percentiles (or very bottom) of a T14.


Your post above assumed that candidate #1 would be a good summer in the eyes of a partner and #2 would be a lazy summer. This can't be if they possess the same person quality. There are more that represent personal qualities than grades, so I don't think your assumption above was reasonable if both candidates are the same person.

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Re: Which is better? Being last in your class at T14 or #1 TTT?

Postby LawperaMan » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:23 pm

In my conversations with a friend who has worked as a judge for the last 30 years, he suggested that a person should try to go to a school where he had a shot at being in the top 10%. I asked how one could assess such a thing, and he said, "there's the rub."

If only as an 0L you could KNOW whether you would be #1 at that TTT, these decisions would be so much easier.




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