Pepperdine Law Question Forum

[postn0bills]

I have been reading conflicting things all over the internet, and I would really like some honest feedback about the atmosphere at Pepperdine Law. I like that the school makes morals and ethics a priority... but I am a liberal, tree hugging atheist. I have no problem with other people having different beliefs, as long as they are not pushed on me. Does anyone who's either attended or know someone who has attended have an opinion as to the atmosphere? Is it oppressive? Or is Christianity just prevalent? I am totally fine with the latter. Thanks everyone!

[Gail]

I have been reading conflicting things all over the internet, and I would really like some honest feedback about the atmosphere at Pepperdine Law. I like that the school makes morals and ethics a priority... but I am a liberal, tree hugging atheist. I have no problem with other people having different beliefs, as long as they are not pushed on me. Does anyone who's either attended or know someone who has attended have an opinion as to the atmosphere? Is it oppressive? Or is Christianity just prevalent? I am totally fine with the latter. Thanks everyone!

It is prevalent. Don't know about oppressive. That shouldn't be the first reason for you to decide not to attend Pepperdine, however. Believe me, there are like 54 other reasons.

[postn0bills]

While it's not my first reason, I'd love to know additional reasons. Well, aside from the whole "it's a TT school, you won't get a job."

[hoos89]

/

[postn0bills]

Ok? No one said anything about sticker. But I'd be interested in knowing what the additional reasons are for not attending Pepperdine.

[mrtoren]

While it's not my first reason, I'd love to know additional reasons. Well, aside from the whole "it's a TT school, you won't get a job."

Its not just a TT. Its a TT in California. That costs $68k/year to attend.

The entire state is drowning (I.E. Worst run state in America based on unemployment, uninsured, poverty, per capita debt) and even those at the top law schools are on shaky ground. Either consider leaving the state or retake to get into a better CA school. A TT in a booming state is a lot different than a TT in one like CA or NY.

[postn0bills]

I'm actually currently in NY, trying to move to CA. I'd ideally like to practice in CA as well, so that's the goal. What in CA do you think would be worth it? I may retake and reapply in a few cycles, but I want to see how I do this cycle.

[postn0bills]

Also, not trying for biglaw. I'd like to have my own practice.

[mrtoren]

Also, not trying for biglaw. I'd like to have my own practice.

Very few people hang up their own shingle after law school and of those few, only a fraction last for any length of time. With no ties to an already brutal market, you should give up on the dream unless you can get into Hastings or Davis. Loyola seems to lay some claim on criminal prosecution and defense in the state, but the rest of the class is left to drown. Some make it, a lot don't.

We all have to make sacrifices to succeed in this world and sunshine and beaches are going to have to be yours. NY is brutal as well, barring you crack Dozo or Fordham. Consider NJ, PA, VA or New England. Aim for the flagship university or a strong public university with low tuition (is in-state offered 1L or 2L?) and strong employment. Those two aspects will dictate your search. Only T30 applicants should factor luxuries such as climate into their decision.

[postn0bills]

I wasn't factoring in climate. While it's a nice perk, it's not the reason I applied to Pepperdine.

I'm in my late 20s, and I want to go to a law school where I want to settle down. California is where I'd like to live (no preference as to where), and I'd like where I want to live to dictate where I go to school and open up a practice, not the other way around. It is very important to me, and I have no intention of sacrificing that. While I realize I probably can't go solo immediately after graduation, that is the eventual goal.

I've no interest in living in the other states you've listed, and schools in those areas tend to be regional. Might as well throw a Hail Mary to Hastings.

Thank you for your thoughts/suggestions. If I don't get into Loyola or Hastings this year, I will probably retake and reapply.

[goldenflash19]

I'm in the exact same boat as you, OP. True blue, liberal atheist who wants to move to CA except I'm from OH. I decided not to apply to Pepperdine because of their conservative Christian stance. I actually toured the campus and talked with a few current students. Their responses indicated that class discussions, case analyses, etc. are often influenced by the school's Christian perspective. I don't think it's inconceivable that I would be ostracized for saying Roe v. Wade was decided properly. Plus, the schollies I've heard people getting from Pepperdine come with top 1/3 stips. Financially and politically, the school is not for me.

It's just a shame that the most beautiful law school campus in the country's most liberal state is a right-wing establishment.

Maybe we'll be classmates @ Loyola or Hastings. Good luck!

[postn0bills]

Thank you for your response. It's along the lines of what I was wondering -- to what extent the Christian influence exists in classes, etc. I had no idea about the stips. Yikes. Looks like it's not for me either. Good luck to you as well!

[cloudhidden]

I think that people ought to start substantiating their opinions with statistics, not tossed-about groupthink. You see the same platitudes echoed time and again and none of the sort of nuanced considerations that face someone who is looking for options. OP said pepperdine wouldn't cost sticker. Given op's desire to live in the area, and assuming that op is not biglaw or bust (especially because a huge scholarship doesn't really necessitate that) is it that unreasonable to believe someone can find pi/ goverment/ small-midsized law opportunities? I don't quite agree with the hope of solo practice anytime soon after school, but I don't understand the anti- pepperdine sentiment. Can't someone with sufficient determination and a sufficient scholarship fare well there? As to the belief that pi, gov, and small firm positions are as hard to secure as biglaw ITE, that is another opinion I often hear pontificated without any factual support.

[Gail]

I think that people ought to start substantiating their opinions with statistics, not tossed-about groupthink. You see the same platitudes echoed time and again and none of the sort of nuanced considerations that face someone who is looking for options. OP said pepperdine wouldn't cost sticker. Given op's desire to live in the area, and assuming that op is not biglaw or bust (especially because a huge scholarship doesn't really necessitate that) is it that unreasonable to believe someone can find pi/ goverment/ small-midsized law opportunities? I don't quite agree with the hope of solo practice anytime soon after school, but I don't understand the anti- pepperdine sentiment. Can't someone with sufficient determination and a sufficient scholarship fare well there? As to the belief that pi, gov, and small firm positions are as hard to secure as biglaw ITE, that is another opinion I often hear pontificated without any factual support.

Do you know what it costs to live in Malibu? Do you know how cutthroat California is? It's a beautiful state that lets anyone take the bar. If you even do pass the bar, not a given, you'll be competing against a host of other law schools.

When a Loyola beats your school in the local job market, you know it's not a great idea to go.

It's not just about sticker either. A 45k scholarship is nice, but honestly... If it isn't full tuition, it's still a lot of money for very good prospects of making only $45k a year or not practicing law at all. Is that a gamble that you want to take?


And if you're counting on government work, forget that. California is a basket case.

[cloudhidden]

I think that people ought to start substantiating their opinions with statistics, not tossed-about groupthink. You see the same platitudes echoed time and again and none of the sort of nuanced considerations that face someone who is looking for options. OP said pepperdine wouldn't cost sticker. Given op's desire to live in the area, and assuming that op is not biglaw or bust (especially because a huge scholarship doesn't really necessitate that) is it that unreasonable to believe someone can find pi/ goverment/ small-midsized law opportunities? I don't quite agree with the hope of solo practice anytime soon after school, but I don't understand the anti- pepperdine sentiment. Can't someone with sufficient determination and a sufficient scholarship fare well there? As to the belief that pi, gov, and small firm positions are as hard to secure as biglaw ITE, that is another opinion I often hear pontificated without any factual support.

Do you know what it costs to live in Malibu? Do you know how cutthroat California is? It's a beautiful state that lets anyone take the bar. If you even do pass the bar, not a given, you'll be competing against a host of other law schools.

When a Loyola beats your school in the local job market, you know it's not a great idea to go.

It's not just about sticker either. A 45k scholarship is nice, but honestly... If it isn't full tuition, it's still a lot of money for very good prospects of making only $45k a year or not practicing law at all. Is that a gamble that you want to take?


And if you're counting on government work, forget that. California is a basket case.

Have you lived in Malibu/ surrounding area? Do you know that you can find a place with a few roommates for less than a thousand each, only a few miles away from the school? You might want to quantify your claims. I constantly refer to this thread http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150681 because I often hear people either minimizing or exaggerating differences between job placement for schools. For example, the "go no further than Hastings/Davis for CA law" thinking when the bigger gap seems to be between USC/UCLA and Hastings/Davis. I know that data comes from 2009 but the CA market had already made its dramatic fall in relation to the rest of the country, and IMO that year exacerbated the differences between schools as powerhouse schools had OCI offers from 2007 while lower ranked schools had boatloads of graduates who were looking for a job at the beginning of the recession. Also, you need to explain that $45k figure rather than using poetic license to make a point. Loyola and Pepperdine underperform their ranking in terms of job placement, but when you mean fewer jobs you should say that and not no jobs. They might be a fractionally worse proposition than peer schools, but that's a risk that must be evaluated alongside all factors, including the location that one desires to live.

[FinallyGoing]

If you're not planning on joining the Federalist Society you may want to re-think your career prospects @ Pepperdine.

[Gail]

Have you lived in Malibu/ surrounding area? Do you know that you can find a place with a few roommates for less than a thousand each

The fact that you think that's somehow a victory of cheapness says to me that you're either trolling or we're on two completely different planets in regards to willingness to spend money.

[Errzii]

Do you know what it costs to live in Malibu? Do you know how cutthroat California is? It's a beautiful state that lets anyone take the bar. If you even do pass the bar, not a given, you'll be competing against a host of other law schools.

When a Loyola beats your school in the local job market, you know it's not a great idea to go.

It's not just about sticker either. A 45k scholarship is nice, but honestly... If it isn't full tuition, it's still a lot of money for very good prospects of making only $45k a year or not practicing law at all. Is that a gamble that you want to take?


And if you're counting on government work, forget that. California is a basket case.

TBF Pepperdine's class had decent bar pass rates recently. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... -2011.html

[surfer]

While it's not my first reason, I'd love to know additional reasons. Well, aside from the whole "it's a TT school, you won't get a job."

Its not just a TT. Its a TT in California. That costs $68k/year to attend.

The entire state is drowning (I.E. Worst run state in America based on unemployment, uninsured, poverty, per capita debt) and even those at the top law schools are on shaky ground. Either consider leaving the state or retake to get into a better CA school. A TT in a booming state is a lot different than a TT in one like CA or NY.

A booming state? Which one would that be?

Go to Pepperdine if you want to. You'll probably enjoy the experience more than a lot of people in arctic conditions. You can go to the beach every day.

[smelltheglove]

Wake up early every morning and go surfing before class.

[utilitarianjac]

I've been a member on this site for around four years. Nonetheless, I continue to be shocked by the nonsense spewed forth by people who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

You have people who haven't attended law school talking about how successful they will be once they get in. You have people who haven't looked for a legal job talking about how hard it is to find a legal job. You have people who have never been to Pepperdine talking about Pepperdine's environment.

Yes, Pepperdine scholarships come with a stipulation. You have to stay in the top 1/3. If you lose your initial scholarship, there are other funds available. Will they get you back to your original award? No; but they could offset your loss if it does occur. Don't most schools have some sort of stipulation?

Is Malibu expensive? Yes. My rent is $1900 a month for a two bedroom apartment. Gas is expensive. Restaurants are expensive. But Pepperdine is generous. I'm doing fine.

Is the environment conservative? No doubt, Pepperdine has more right-leaning people than many schools, but they are far from holding a solid majority at the School of Law. (Aren't liberals the ones always whining about diversity?) There is an active Federalist Society, but they are more libertarian than conservative (while that is not my political inclination, I have been impressed with the events they've hosted over the past year). There is also an active Christian Legal Society, but I never really hear from them.

All in all, I've enjoyed my time at Pepperdine. I'm not worried about debt. I'm not worried about jobs.

[goldenflash19]

It's actually smart for people who haven't even attended law school to talk about stipulations. If your scholly requires a top 1/3 stip, you have to be aware that 2/3 of the class won't hit the mark that's required to keep it. Law school isn't like undergrad where, if the whole class does well, then everyone receives A's. Plus, the majority of people who attend law school did relatively well in undergrad. It's common sense that some people who go to law school on merit scholarships will lose them. Not everyone can afford to drop $70,000 for a single year of TT education ITE. It is in a prospective OL's best interest if you caution them against accepting such a scholarship w/o at least trying to negotiate the stip.

[utilitarianjac]

It's actually smart for people who haven't even attended law school to talk about stipulations. If your scholly requires a top 1/3 stip, you have to be aware that 2/3 of the class won't hit the mark that's required to keep it. Law school isn't like undergrad where, if the whole class does well, then everyone receives A's. Plus, the majority of people who attend law school did relatively well in undergrad. It's common sense that some people who go to law school on merit scholarships will lose them. Not everyone can afford to drop $70,000 for a single year of TT education ITE. It is in a prospective OL's best interest if you caution them against accepting such a scholarship w/o at least trying to negotiate the stip.

I guess I wasn't clear. I agree that it is wise to consider scholarship stipulations before accepting an offer. My argument is that most schools have some sort of stipulation for you to keep your award. Some are rather vague (stay in good academic standing), while other are very specific. It can be easy to be misled when a stipulation requires you to keep a certain GPA. A 3.25 might sound simple, but if your school uses a low curve, that might be very hard to maintain. With Pepperdine, you know that you have to stay in the top 1/3.

When I talked about the silliness of some people on the site, I was referring to people who are certain that they will finish at the top of their class before they've even started. As you point out, law school is a new ballgame. There are a lot of bright (and more importantly, wickedly disciplined) people in the program. The curve can be tough. There are no guarantees.

[postn0bills]

I've been a member on this site for around four years. Nonetheless, I continue to be shocked by the nonsense spewed forth by people who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

You have people who haven't attended law school talking about how successful they will be once they get in. You have people who haven't looked for a legal job talking about how hard it is to find a legal job. You have people who have never been to Pepperdine talking about Pepperdine's environment.

Yes, Pepperdine scholarships come with a stipulation. You have to stay in the top 1/3. If you lose your initial scholarship, there are other funds available. Will they get you back to your original award? No; but they could offset your loss if it does occur. Don't most schools have some sort of stipulation?

Is Malibu expensive? Yes. My rent is $1900 a month for a two bedroom apartment. Gas is expensive. Restaurants are expensive. But Pepperdine is generous. I'm doing fine.

Is the environment conservative? No doubt, Pepperdine has more right-leaning people than many schools, but they are far from holding a solid majority at the School of Law. (Aren't liberals the ones always whining about diversity?) There is an active Federalist Society, but they are more libertarian than conservative (while that is not my political inclination, I have been impressed with the events they've hosted over the past year). There is also an active Christian Legal Society, but I never really hear from them.

All in all, I've enjoyed my time at Pepperdine. I'm not worried about debt. I'm not worried about jobs.

Points taken. Actually, compared to where I live now (New York City), $1900 a month for a two bedroom sounds fantastic! After some thought, I still think where I am now doesn't justify going to Pepperdine in terms of debt. If I don't get into a great school this year, I will probably retake and perhaps consider Pepperdine again in a few cycles (for more scholly $). Yes, I am one of those liberals who always whines about diversity. If you read my OP, I mention that differing beliefs don't bother me at all, as long as they're not forced on me. I really appreciate your insights (and those of everyone else who responded). Thanks.

[surfer]

Malibu is expensive. But so are Boston, New York, DC, Chicago, and San Francisco. It costs money to live in great cities unfortunately.