## LSAT/GPA ratio

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
Philosopher King

Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 pm

### LSAT/GPA ratio

I noticed the LSAT/GPA ratio on law school predictor just yesterday and realized that is why at one school I am "better" than 56% of applicants whereas at another I am better than about two-thirds, even though the latter has a median LSAT score that is four points higher. For the former my LSAT is only one point below 25th percentile but the ratio is like 4. or something ridiculous. Now, surely this can't mean that LSAT scores are four times more important than GPA? I knew this system was corrupt and blatantly stupid and unfair but four times more important? That's scandalous. So am I right about this or am I misinterpreting the ratio?

Kabuo

Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:53 am

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Umm. You say in your post that it varies by school. So I guess you already know the answer.

hoos89

Posts: 2008
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Philosopher King

Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

hoos89 wrote:I'm not sure it's quite correct to call the LSAT 4 times more important. I think you are misinterpreting the ratio.

For example a formula of LSAT + 11.25 * GPA is considered to be a ratio of 4x because the total LSAT possible is 180 and a 4.0 GPA would be worth 45. 180/45 = 4. However, you have to consider that everyone has at least 120 points on the LSAT, so there are only really 60 possible points for the LSAT compared to 45 for GPA.

Ratio's are just a good guide to see who values the LSAT higher or lower.

Can you explain this more? I don't get it and I want to understand this ratio nonsense.

hoos89

Posts: 2008
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

KevinP

Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

This highly depends on the law school and on one's GPA range. In general, however, the LSAT tends to be more valuable than GPA.
http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools09.htm

Philosopher King

Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

KevinP wrote:This highly depends on the law school and on one's GPA range. In general, however, the LSAT tends to be more valuable than GPA.
http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools09.htm

Right. And this absolutely makes sense. A 140 minute multiple choice exam that has nothing to do with law should be worth more than four years of undergraduate studies including, in addition to many multiple choice tests, essay exams, essays, research papers, lecture attendance, presentations, etc.

hoos89

Posts: 2008
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 4528
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:56 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

I think it would be most fair if schools only evaluated applicants by LSAT score and just ignored GPA.

Philosopher King

Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Tom Joad wrote:I think it would be most fair if schools only evaluated applicants by LSAT score and just ignored GPA.

That's what is sad. Why even go to college? Just take the LSAT. That will predict law school performance.

KevinP

Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Why not go to the Massachusetts School of Law? They don't have an LSAT requirement.

RainyDayPlay

Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:13 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

These two numbers together are a better predictor of performance than when used separately.

http://www.lsac.org/jd/pdfs/LSAT-Score- ... rmance.pdf

Philosopher King

Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

KevinP wrote:Why not go to the Massachusetts School of Law? They don't have an LSAT requirement.

Two words: ABA accreditation. I should email them though and congratulate them on their courage. They are standing against evil and tyranny and all of those who choose to enable it.

jrthor10

Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:33 am

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Philosopher King wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:I think it would be most fair if schools only evaluated applicants by LSAT score and just ignored GPA.

That's what is sad. Why even go to college? Just take the LSAT. That will predict law school performance.

Actually it will. I think it is more unfair to compare GPA's from hundreds of different schools than to compare scores on a test that actually involves many of the skills law students will be expected to have in law school.

Philosopher King

Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

jrthor10 wrote:
Philosopher King wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:I think it would be most fair if schools only evaluated applicants by LSAT score and just ignored GPA.

That's what is sad. Why even go to college? Just take the LSAT. That will predict law school performance.

Actually it will. I think it is more unfair to compare GPA's from hundreds of different schools than to compare scores on a test that actually involves many of the skills law students will be expected to have in law school.

Two words: philosophy major

Posts: 4528
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:56 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Philosopher King wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:
Philosopher King wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:I think it would be most fair if schools only evaluated applicants by LSAT score and just ignored GPA.

That's what is sad. Why even go to college? Just take the LSAT. That will predict law school performance.

Actually it will. I think it is more unfair to compare GPA's from hundreds of different schools than to compare scores on a test that actually involves many of the skills law students will be expected to have in law school.

Two words: philosophy major

So maybe you have the skills to succeed in a graduate philosophy program. Law school isn't philosophy.

Philosopher King

Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Tom Joad wrote:So maybe you have the skills to succeed in a graduate philosophy program. Law school isn't philosophy.

Law falls almost entirety under the disciplines of philosophy and political science. Laws are enacted through the political process and are based on philosophical questions of morality. I could expand on this but just think about it for a moment.

My more important point is that my philosophy curriculum taught me the skills the LSAT tests for. I have detailed this countless times using specific courses to demonstrate how I have proven I have good logical reasoning and reading comprehension skills and my 155 LSAT is not representative of this.

Bumi

Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Anyone who is interested in how conversations about LSAT/GPA tradeoffs can play out in admissions offices should check out the investigation into former Illinois Dean of Admissions Paul Pless. The section that starts at the bottom of page 35 and continues on page 36 called "2. Fine Tuning and Optimizing LSAT and Median Combinations" is super interesting.

hoos89

Posts: 2008
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

moneybagsphd

Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:07 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Philosopher King wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:
Philosopher King wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:I think it would be most fair if schools only evaluated applicants by LSAT score and just ignored GPA.

That's what is sad. Why even go to college? Just take the LSAT. That will predict law school performance.

Actually it will. I think it is more unfair to compare GPA's from hundreds of different schools than to compare scores on a test that actually involves many of the skills law students will be expected to have in law school.

Two words: philosophy major

Stop your kvetching. You don't deserve to get into law school.

Bumi

Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

.
Last edited by Bumi on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KevinP

Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Bumi wrote:Anyone who is interested in how conversations about LSAT/GPA tradeoffs can play out in admissions offices should check out the investigation into former Illinois Dean of Admissions Paul Pless. The section that starts at the bottom of page 35 and continues on page 36 called "2. Fine Tuning and Optimizing LSAT and Median Combinations" is super interesting.

As someone who is very interested in data, I thank you for the link.

moneybagsphd

Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:07 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

lovejopd

Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:00 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

Hey, if you major in Philosophy but your score is 155. It sadly means you are not really special snowflakes at all...

The Average LSAT scores by philosophy and religion is 157.4!

Hope you nail the LSAT and get the score you want~

Philosopher King

Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 pm

### Re: LSAT/GPA ratio

hoos89 wrote:As a philosophy major shouldn't you have the logical base to allow you to perform well on the LSAT?

Why is GPA any better of a measure? Because you should damn all of the talented and intelligent people who had bad semesters in college?

Did you honestly just refer to the LSAT as "evil and tyranny?" How is that any worse than judging people on 3-4 years of their life that are completely set and unchangeable? Not to mention that if you take the LSAT away, there really would be incentive for people to just go to worse schools to be a big fish in a small pond.

I suck at standardized tests. I never took the SAT or the ACT and did just fine in college. Having Asperger's doesn't help. The LSAT is too rigid. I think about things differently than other people do so no standardized test will really work well for me. The best way to describe it would be to say I see the world through a different paradigm than "regular" people.