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senorhosh
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Postby senorhosh » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:06 am

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Last edited by senorhosh on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

imchuckbass58
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby imchuckbass58 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:11 am

You should avoid these issues by not telling your employer that you intend to go to law school. You're under no obligation (ethical, moral, or otherwise) to do so unless it conflicts with the requirements of the position (i.e., positions requires a two year commitment, and you intend to leave after one).

You should tell your employer a month or two before you actually intend to leave - enough time so they can hire/train a replacement.

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cinephile
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby cinephile » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:11 am

I wouldn't say anything about it unless they ask you how long you can commit to working for them.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby ThreeRivers » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:11 am

I wouldn't go in advertising ONLY GOING TO BE HERE A YEAR

but if they ask, you shouldn't lie....

As for if you get the job, idk just give them standard / appropriate notice that you will be leaving. Its business, not that unusual for a young employee to leave after a year or two

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Icculus
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby Icculus » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:19 am

Do not tell employers. PERIOD. You will not get a job if they figure you are out after a year or two, plus what if you change your mind? Life happens.

Betharl
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby Betharl » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:20 am

Basically what everyone else has said, I wouldn’t tell them at all. If you feel like you have to tell them I would wait at least until they extend you an offer.

I also don't recommend lying, but that said, if they ask you a question like, "where would you like to be in 5 years," you can always answer very vaguely. Ie, I would like to work for an organization where my input is valued and where I can work with other talented and friendly people in a collaborative team-oriented environment.... etc etc.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby ThreeRivers » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:21 am

Icculus wrote:Do not tell employers. PERIOD. You will not get a job if they figure you are out after a year or two, plus what if you change your mind? Life happens.

I disagree with the "PERIOD.' I'd avoid it as much as you can, but I would never outright lie if asked (both for morale / ethical reasons) / potential future negative consequences if you go around lying in your professional career.

I'd imagine in most cases you can easily avoid telling them without lying

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Icculus
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby Icculus » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:31 am

ThreeRivers wrote:
Icculus wrote:Do not tell employers. PERIOD. You will not get a job if they figure you are out after a year or two, plus what if you change your mind? Life happens.

I disagree with the "PERIOD.' I'd avoid it as much as you can, but I would never outright lie if asked (both for morale / ethical reasons) / potential future negative consequences if you go around lying in your professional career.

I'd imagine in most cases you can easily avoid telling them without lying


So if an employer asked where he sees himself in five years, he should say, "graduating law school." Right then and there he is out of a job. I spent ten years working before law school and I can tell you every place I worked would cut a potential employee if they knew that person was only a temp hire unless that person came from a temp agency. It costs $$ to hire and train new employees, and in this economy there are plenty of people who will be in it for the long haul rather than a year or two. Unless it's a job that a JD could help in I would not mention it even if asked. It is not dishonest, it is not unethical. Especially since there is no guarantee the OP is actually going to leave after a year or two, OP could fall in love with the job. I planned on staying at my first post college job for 1 year, maybe 2. I stayed for five because I liked the company and most of the work, but I realized after five years I wanted a change. OP, trust me, telling a potential employer you plan on leaving is not going to help get you hired, and even if you did get hired you'd be first on the chopping block if the company needed cuts. This is moot if the company that hires you has a history of allowing employees to get JDs or paying for them.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby ThreeRivers » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:48 am

Icculus wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:
Icculus wrote:Do not tell employers. PERIOD. You will not get a job if they figure you are out after a year or two, plus what if you change your mind? Life happens.

I disagree with the "PERIOD.' I'd avoid it as much as you can, but I would never outright lie if asked (both for morale / ethical reasons) / potential future negative consequences if you go around lying in your professional career.

I'd imagine in most cases you can easily avoid telling them without lying


So if an employer asked where he sees himself in five years, he should say, "graduating law school." Right then and there he is out of a job. I spent ten years working before law school and I can tell you every place I worked would cut a potential employee if they knew that person was only a temp hire unless that person came from a temp agency. It costs $$ to hire and train new employees, and in this economy there are plenty of people who will be in it for the long haul rather than a year or two. Unless it's a job that a JD could help in I would not mention it even if asked. It is not dishonest, it is not unethical. Especially since there is no guarantee the OP is actually going to leave after a year or two, OP could fall in love with the job. I planned on staying at my first post college job for 1 year, maybe 2. I stayed for five because I liked the company and most of the work, but I realized after five years I wanted a change. OP, trust me, telling a potential employer you plan on leaving is not going to help get you hired, and even if you did get hired you'd be first on the chopping block if the company needed cuts. This is moot if the company that hires you has a history of allowing employees to get JDs or paying for them.

I actually agree... saying so would basically be equivalent of giving up / not getting the job in most cases, but as Betharl stated you can kind of beat around the bush / not necessary say you're going to law school with that type of question while not lying. I only stated to not outright lie, but you can probably do avoid doing that while not mentioning LS 97% of the time imo

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Gail
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby Gail » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:25 am

senorhosh wrote:I'm going to have 1 gap year (or maybe 2) before going to law school

1. How much more difficult is it to get a job (salary based) if I can only work 1-2 years?
2. When should I tell my employer? During the interview or after the job acceptance


The job market is so difficult now, I don't care if you have to lie. Don't tell them. If they ask, say no, and then tell them you changed your mind when the time came. No LOR.

nsbane
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby nsbane » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:32 am

Tell you what. When you are in your interview, and your potential employer in the interest of honesty tells you that he is considering layoffs and salary freezes at the company, you should tell them that you are thinking about law school.

Believe it or not, they will not be completely open with you either.

phillyboy101
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby phillyboy101 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:20 am

To be honest if you tell them its highly unlikely you will get hired for a salary position, and it will likely come up in an interview (future plans question, etc). I'm in the middle of my 'gap year' as well and it was very difficult getting a job. My circumstances were unique since I was a natural sciences UG, so most of the tech jobs I was applying for generally had quite a few months of training, and I felt bad as I would have had to quit essentially immediately after my training was complete, basically screwing them over. I ended up just working an hourly/lower paying job.

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Gail
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby Gail » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:46 am

phillyboy101 wrote:To be honest if you tell them its highly unlikely you will get hired for a salary position, and it will likely come up in an interview (future plans question, etc). I'm in the middle of my 'gap year' as well and it was very difficult getting a job. My circumstances were unique since I was a natural sciences UG, so most of the tech jobs I was applying for generally had quite a few months of training, and I felt bad as I would have had to quit essentially immediately after my training was complete, basically screwing them over. I ended up just working an hourly/lower paying job.



There's absolutely no reason to feel sorry for HR and your employers. Given the chance, they'll rip the rug up from underneath you just because. Why accept an essentially unlivable wage (assuming your wage was minimum) to prevent something that happens all the time?

Anyways,


OK. If you simply can't sleep with yourself at night because you lied to Dawn in HR, you can always take a temp job.

nsbane wrote:Tell you what. When you are in your interview, and your potential employer in the interest of honesty tells you that he is considering layoffs and salary freezes at the company, you should tell them that you are thinking about law school.

Believe it or not, they will not be completely open with you either.


Why?

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NoleMatt
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby NoleMatt » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:48 am

Just want to strongly echo the good advice of not saying anything unless they ask a question that forces you to. Even if they ask you a more general question like "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" I wouldn't feel obligated to spill the beans. Basically only if they ask you to commit to the job for a period of time that conflicts with your attending law school.

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20130312
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:54 am

I was in the exact same situation after graduating UG. Every time I told a prospective employer, I got dinged. And then I started not saying it. Even if asked directly what my 5 year plan was, it was always "working at your company doing XYZ."

Don't say anything to your prospective employer. Lie through your teeth to get a job. It's the only way to get one in this economy.

ETA: Forgot to mention, I actually got a job after not mentioning this. Results may vary.
Last edited by 20130312 on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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theavrock
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby theavrock » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:22 am

Do not say anything.

Plans can change. You may fall in love with whatever job you get. Your grandmother may get sick and you have to take care of her. A million things could happen that could cause you to go to law school and leave your job or conversely say screw law school and stay with an employer. Any employer that expects you to say you will stay with them for 2 years in an interview is insane.

Say what it takes to get the job. When they ask you a question about your future be vague. Things change all the time and no employer is going to say well you told us in your interview that you would stick around for X years and you didn't so fuck you.

nsbane
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby nsbane » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:26 am

The 5 year question is not asked to find out where you think you will be in 5 years.

In high school, I used to work with a couple guys as a handy man. One of the guys interviewed at Home Depot. During the interview, he was asked what he would do if he found $20 on the ground. "I told them I'd put it in my pocket and leave it at that, only an idiot would do anything different!" he laughed to me. Guess what. He didn't get the job.

When supervisors ask this question, the smart ones don't expect an honest answer. They're asking because they want to know what is your attitude coming into the company. If your attitude is such that you are willing to tell them to their face you don't want to be there in 5 years, then they don't want you to work there for 1 month.

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reasonable_man
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:27 am

senorhosh wrote:I'm going to have 1 gap year (or maybe 2) before going to law school

1. How much more difficult is it to get a job (salary based) if I can only work 1-2 years?
2. When should I tell my employer? During the interview or after the job acceptance



I would not tell them at all. No one will hire you if they know you already have a count-down running till your last day.

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sandwiches5000
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby sandwiches5000 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:40 am

Don't mention it. Technically, you aren't 100% sure you are going until you have that acceptance in hand (or arguably, the deposit has been paid.) Only then, I'd feel obliged to divulge that information, as I would be working on an exit strategy from the job so I could start getting set up for school and what not.

Initially I, like someone above, interviewed for a bunch of jobs and didn't realize my saying I was going to grad school the following year was that big of a deal... Well, it was, because I didn't get any of those jobs.

And yeah, your plans can change. I ended up taking 3 years off when I thought it would be one. Maybe you will realize you want to do something else or you may realize that you want to work for x company for 5 years before LS.

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lizaregina
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby lizaregina » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:29 pm

Would you say the same thing for a two year program? I've applied for a few jobs that only expect a two year commitment.

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20130312
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:31 pm

lizaregina wrote:Would you say the same thing for a two year program? I've applied for a few jobs that only expect a two year commitment.


Absolutely. They want your focus on their company during those two years, not on doing the LSAT, applications, visits to law schools, wasting time on a law school internet forum.

nsbane
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby nsbane » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:38 pm

Job interviews are a first date. Treat them accordingly. If you want them to be interested in you, you are not going to talk about other people you're thinking about seeing down the line.

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ben4847
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby ben4847 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:39 pm

Icculus wrote:Do not tell employers (about your) PERIOD (or anything else personal, like how long you plan to work there or whether you plan to go to law school. You will not get a job if they figure you are out after a year or two, plus what if you change your mind? Life happens.


looks even better now

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TommyK
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby TommyK » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:42 pm

You can answer the five-year question honestly without divulging you're going to law school. When I ask candidates this, I'm looking for where their interests lie and what their self-perceived skills are. So if they say that they would like to transition out of an individual contributor role to a developer of people, I know that I should probably pair them with somebody that has this skillset to help them grow in that capacity. If they say they would like to be an exceptional performer in the role they're applying for, they might be a good fit in a position that needs a bit of stability.

Answering the question by saying that in five years, you'd like to be in a position where you can leverage the experience you've gained in w position to move into a role with increased responsibilities and that you see your main strengths as x, y, and z, and would like to find a position that would take advantage of those. And some of your main interest areas are a, b, and c. That's a good well-reasoned answer that shows you've given some consideration to your future and understand how the position for which you're applying will play into your long-term plans. So long as x,y,z,a,b, and c are relevant to position you're seeking, I like it.

I wouldn't disclose you're considering law school, just like I wouldn't advise a woman to say they plan on having a kid in 2 years. Those are personal plans that are subject to change.

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lizaregina
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Re: telling potential employers I will be going to law school

Postby lizaregina » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:11 pm

Sorry I wasn't clear, InGoodFaith. I've already been accepted to a law school I will be attending but I am deferring for two years.




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