About those emails offering to waive application fee...

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Philosopher King
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About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Philosopher King » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:07 pm

SO I have received dozens of emails from law schools offering to waive their application fees before I took the LSAT. I just assumed they were TTTT schools and never took it seriously. Now, I just got a bunch today after an email confirming my second transcript was received from LSAC. There are a few serious, top 100 schools. One is from W&L Law in Lexington, Virginia, for example, which is ranked no. 30 with an LSAT range of 161-167. The email says: "A law school candidate with your credentials has no doubt received invitations to apply from a number of fine institutions. However, because I believe you will find W&L Law is genuinely different from other schools, I hope you will consider one more invitation."

So I guess the question is, do they actually know my credentials or are they just BSing me. Because if they knew my credentials they would know that I have a 155 LSAT, and I highly doubt any "fine institutions" are interested in me beyond a good person to have on their wait list.

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rinkrat19
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:11 pm

One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.

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Philosopher King
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Philosopher King » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:14 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.


Oh I see that makes sense. What a corrupt system. It's even worse than I thought. "Scandalous" doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.

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rinkrat19
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:18 pm

Philosopher King wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.


Oh I see that makes sense. What a corrupt system. It's even worse than I thought. "Scandalous" doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.
You're overdoing it.

lifqiu
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby lifqiu » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:25 pm

If you don't think you'll get in (even SLIGHTLY), don't spend that 16$ on the report fee to LSAC. Fee waivers are one thing, but all the LSAC report fees add up.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby franklyscarlet » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:28 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Philosopher King wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.


Oh I see that makes sense. What a corrupt system. It's even worse than I thought. "Scandalous" doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.
You're overdoing it.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:31 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
Philosopher King wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.


Oh I see that makes sense. What a corrupt system. It's even worse than I thought. "Scandalous" doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.
You're overdoing it.

arodd53
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby arodd53 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:30 pm

How about fee waivers coming late in the cycle (December and later)? Are those genuine "you're a good candidate" waivers, or are they "we want to reject you to boost our selectivity" waivers?

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rinkrat19
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:33 pm

arodd53 wrote:How about fee waivers coming late in the cycle (December and later)? Are those genuine "you're a good candidate" waivers, or are they "we want to reject you to boost our selectivity" waivers?
Your numbers indicate whether you are a good candidate. Period.

Jante05
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Jante05 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:55 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.

that just blew my mind

Nate895
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Nate895 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:58 pm

Philosopher King wrote:SO I have received dozens of emails from law schools offering to waive their application fees before I took the LSAT. I just assumed they were TTTT schools and never took it seriously. Now, I just got a bunch today after an email confirming my second transcript was received from LSAC. There are a few serious, top 100 schools. One is from W&L Law in Lexington, Virginia, for example, which is ranked no. 30 with an LSAT range of 161-167. The email says: "A law school candidate with your credentials has no doubt received invitations to apply from a number of fine institutions. However, because I believe you will find W&L Law is genuinely different from other schools, I hope you will consider one more invitation."

So I guess the question is, do they actually know my credentials or are they just BSing me. Because if they knew my credentials they would know that I have a 155 LSAT, and I highly doubt any "fine institutions" are interested in me beyond a good person to have on their wait list.


Washington and Lee doesn't have an application fee to begin with, so they can't waive a non-existent fee.

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Philosopher King
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Philosopher King » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:40 am

Nate895 wrote:
Philosopher King wrote:SO I have received dozens of emails from law schools offering to waive their application fees before I took the LSAT. I just assumed they were TTTT schools and never took it seriously. Now, I just got a bunch today after an email confirming my second transcript was received from LSAC. There are a few serious, top 100 schools. One is from W&L Law in Lexington, Virginia, for example, which is ranked no. 30 with an LSAT range of 161-167. The email says: "A law school candidate with your credentials has no doubt received invitations to apply from a number of fine institutions. However, because I believe you will find W&L Law is genuinely different from other schools, I hope you will consider one more invitation."

So I guess the question is, do they actually know my credentials or are they just BSing me. Because if they knew my credentials they would know that I have a 155 LSAT, and I highly doubt any "fine institutions" are interested in me beyond a good person to have on their wait list.


Washington and Lee doesn't have an application fee to begin with, so they can't waive a non-existent fee.


That's not necessarily true. I was once told in a letter from a man that it was a pleasure meeting me but I had never met the guy. So stuff like this happens all the time apparently even though it is logically impossible.

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bigeast03
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby bigeast03 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:49 am

Philosopher King wrote: I was once told in a letter from a man that it was a pleasure meeting me


Philosopher King wrote: I had never met the guy.


You don't say

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ConfidenceMan2
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby ConfidenceMan2 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:55 am

Don't you have like a 4.0? I don't think W&L is necessarily being dishonest. You'd probably be in.

http://wl.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

(and, generally, http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com)

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Philosopher King
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Philosopher King » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:59 am

ConfidenceMan2 wrote:Don't you have like a 4.0? I don't think W&L is necessarily being dishonest. You'd probably be in.

http://wl.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

(and, generally, http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com)


That's a good point. This could be one of those schools that likes high GPAs. I'm sure there are some schools they weigh LSAT and GPA more equally than other schools do.

Nate895
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Nate895 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:14 am

Philosopher King wrote:
ConfidenceMan2 wrote:Don't you have like a 4.0? I don't think W&L is necessarily being dishonest. You'd probably be in.

http://wl.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

(and, generally, http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com)


That's a good point. This could be one of those schools that likes high GPAs. I'm sure there are some schools they weigh LSAT and GPA more equally than other schools do.


Washington and Lee is not one of them. The admissions dean told me in person that he heavily prefers the LSAT over GPA because their is little way to compare GPAs from various schools. Your 4.0 might mean less than a 3.5 somewhere else. That's why the LSAT is the great equalizer, and it is weighted heavier in the rankings.

backwards54
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby backwards54 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:23 am

Philosopher King wrote:SO I have received dozens of emails from law schools offering to waive their application fees before I took the LSAT. I just assumed they were TTTT schools and never took it seriously. Now, I just got a bunch today after an email confirming my second transcript was received from LSAC. There are a few serious, top 100 schools. One is from W&L Law in Lexington, Virginia, for example, which is ranked no. 30 with an LSAT range of 161-167. The email says: "A law school candidate with your credentials has no doubt received invitations to apply from a number of fine institutions. However, because I believe you will find W&L Law is genuinely different from other schools, I hope you will consider one more invitation."

So I guess the question is, do they actually know my credentials or are they just BSing me. Because if they knew my credentials they would know that I have a 155 LSAT, and I highly doubt any "fine institutions" are interested in me beyond a good person to have on their wait list.


Hey! I received the same email as you from W&L.

I have no idea about your situation, but I think they have a way of knowing because among the numerous fee waiver offers I have received, more of them spoke directly to me and mentionned my LSAT score!

luthersloan
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby luthersloan » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:34 am

An email like that was the only reason I applied to W&L. They admitted me with a half-scholarship, so it is not necessarily a ploy.

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Philosopher King
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Philosopher King » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:43 am

Nate895 wrote:Washington and Lee is not one of them. The admissions dean told me in person that he heavily prefers the LSAT over GPA because their is little way to compare GPAs from various schools. Your 4.0 might mean less than a 3.5 somewhere else. That's why the LSAT is the great equalizer, and it is weighted heavier in the rankings.


Oh please, don't give me this "great equalizer" thing. They could flip coins too you know. What good is the LSAT if it doesn't predict success in law school? I just don't get this way of thinking. How can anyone honestly beleive that some silly three hour multiple choice test (with equally silly rules and regulations) that has nothing to do with the law says more about a person's ability to succeed in law school than a 4.0 GPA with a double major in political science and philosophy majors from a highly respected state university which includes hundreds of pages of essays and research papers, countless in-class exams, countless in-class lecture hours, and countless hours of studying and homework. Who in their right mind think this makes any sense?
Last edited by Philosopher King on Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nate895
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Nate895 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:44 am

luthersloan wrote:An email like that was the only reason I applied to W&L. They admitted me with a half-scholarship, so it is not necessarily a ploy.


It isn't necessarily, but it very well could be. I've received some mail and quite a bit of email from them even though my LSAT and GPA combo leads me to believe I'm a T1 auto-reject (save maybe a couple lower T1's). To be fair, I visited the school, but much of the email seemed to be of a mass-email sort.

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Philosopher King
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Philosopher King » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:47 am

backwards54 wrote:Hey! I received the same email as you from W&L.

I have no idea about your situation, but I think they have a way of knowing because among the numerous fee waiver offers I have received, more of them spoke directly to me and mentioned my LSAT score!


Thanks for sharing your experience.

luthersloan wrote:An email like that was the only reason I applied to W&L. They admitted me with a half-scholarship, so it is not necessarily a ploy.


Thank you as well.

Nate895
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Nate895 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:54 am

Philosopher King wrote:
Nate895 wrote:Washington and Lee is not one of them. The admissions dean told me in person that he heavily prefers the LSAT over GPA because their is little way to compare GPAs from various schools. Your 4.0 might mean less than a 3.5 somewhere else. That's why the LSAT is the great equalizer, and it is weighted heavier in the rankings.


Oh please, don't give me this "great equalizer" thing. They could flip coins too you know. What good is the LSAT if it doesn't predict success in law school? I just don't get this way of thinking. How anyone can honestly beleive that some silly three hour multiple choice test (with equally silly rules and regulations) that has nothing to do with the law says more about a person's ability to succeed in law school than a 4.0 GPA with a double major in political science and philosophy majors from a highly respected state university which includes hundreds of pages of essays and research papers, countless in-class exams, countless in-class lecture hours, and countless hours of studying and homework. Who in their right mind think this makes any sense?


One thing you should note: Your philosophy major will work against with your LSAT score. Philosophy/Religion majors tie for second highest average LSAT score, and you are below that average if I do recall (I think they average 157.4, first is math majors with 160). That means your performed worse than your peers in your major.

As far as it predicting how well you do in law school, it is actually a fairly good predictor of your grades in law school from what I have read. Consider that law schools all boils down to final exam based on similar reasoning patterns to the ones found on the LSAT. How well you do on the LSAT should mirror very well how you will perform in law school. It isn't perfect, but neither is your GPA a perfect predictor. Taken together, they give admissions deans a fairly complete picture of how well an applicant will do.

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Philosopher King
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Philosopher King » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:01 am

Nate895 wrote:One thing you should note: Your philosophy major will work against with your LSAT score. Philosophy/Religion majors tie for second highest average LSAT score, and you are below that average if I do recall (I think they average 157.4, first is math majors with 160). That means your performed worse than your peers in your major.

As far as it predicting how well you do in law school, it is actually a fairly good predictor of your grades in law school from what I have read. Consider that law schools all boils down to final exam based on similar reasoning patterns to the ones found on the LSAT. How well you do on the LSAT should mirror very well how you will perform in law school. It isn't perfect, but neither is your GPA a perfect predictor. Taken together, they give admissions deans a fairly complete picture of how well an applicant will do.


I don't think that works against me. It is only further evidence that philosophy majors have the skills the LSAT tests for. It helps to demonstrate that the LSAT doesn't reflect my true abilities. I really wish I took the SATs because I know I would not have gotten a high score. Then I could argue that the LSAT will predict my law school performance as much as the SAT did my undergrad. What a tragedy I never took the SATs. I printed out a practice test and I'm thinking of taking it tomorrow under the appropriate conditions to see what I score. I'm a non-standard person.

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Philosopher King
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Philosopher King » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:04 am

bigeast03 wrote:
Philosopher King wrote: I was once told in a letter from a man that it was a pleasure meeting me


Philosopher King wrote: I had never met the guy.


You don't say


It's a true story. I swear! I have been trying to make sense of it since. You don't need to be a philosophy major to know that there is something wrong with that.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: About those emails offering to waive application fee...

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:30 am

Philosopher King wrote:Oh please, don't give me this "great equalizer" thing. They could flip coins too you know. What good is the LSAT if it doesn't predict success in law school? I just don't get this way of thinking. How can anyone honestly beleive that some silly three hour multiple choice test (with equally silly rules and regulations) that has nothing to do with the law says more about a person's ability to succeed in law school than a 4.0 GPA with a double major in political science and philosophy majors from a highly respected state university which includes hundreds of pages of essays and research papers, countless in-class exams, countless in-class lecture hours, and countless hours of studying and homework. Who in their right mind think this makes any sense?


But, why you so mad?




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