Questions for current applicants

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Paul Campos
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Questions for current applicants

Postby Paul Campos » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:12 pm

(1) How much law school debt are you willing to incur? I realize that for many people the answer to this question will turn on what law school(s) they get into, so feel free to give an answer in the form of (for example) A at a T-6, B at a T-14, C at a T-30, D at a T-50, etc.

(2) What would you consider a satisfactory outcome in regard to the ratio between your total law school debt and your salary in your first post-law school job, not counting judicial clerkships?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

barneytrouble
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby barneytrouble » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:04 am

1.
t-13: 150k
t-50: 25k

2.
close to 1:1, but for a t-50 hopefully more like 1:4

Paul Campos
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby Paul Campos » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:02 pm

Thanks much. Looking forward to more replies.

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citykitty
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby citykitty » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:05 pm

I'm looking at 200+k in debt for mid t14. If I can pull 80k/yr, I'll be satisfied although I would prefer 2x that amount.

Paul Campos
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby Paul Campos » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:16 pm

Thanks.

I'm researching the current economic structure of legal education, and it's really useful to get a sense of what 0Ls are thinking in regard to these questions.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby bernaldiaz » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:29 pm

Pretty interesting question. I'm just coming to an answer myself (I'm applying next cycle)

For T-5 I'd go 150k +
For 6-13 I'd go 80K or so
For T25's I'd hope to have all tuition covered, so maybe I'd go 25k for living expenses.

Lowest I'll apply is BU/BC. I realize I have pretty high standards, but going to law school is big risk that no one is forcing me to make, so if I'm going to do it I'm going to do it right. Idk if that makes sense.

Obviously the ratio depends drastically upon where I'm admitted. If its top 5, I'd hope for 1:1. If I'm at BU or whatever, obviously I'd hope the ratio was a lot higher.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:38 pm

1) I'm looking to go to a T-6, expecting to incur about 150K of debt. Would consider schools further down the rankings within the T-14 if I could keep debt below 100K.

2) I'd be fairly disappointed with anything short of a market paying biglaw job upon graduation, regardless of the amount of debt I take on. Given that I'd say 1:1 is the ratio I consider satisfactory.

Paul Campos
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby Paul Campos » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:37 pm

Thanks to all who've replied . . . Hoping for some more data here . . .

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No13baby
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby No13baby » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:46 pm

1. I'd do ~$100k for a T14, but an arm/leg/firstborn child/whatever it takes for YHS. The only lower-ranked school I'm looking at is my local T50; considering I'd get in-state tuition there and it's the strongest school in the region I want to work, I'd take out up to $50k. I wouldn't take out that much money for any other similarly ranked school.

2. Debt:salary should hopefully be 1:1. I'm comfortable enough with my level of financial responsibility that I'd be willing to go 3:2, but no lower.

iamrobk
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby iamrobk » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:06 pm

I'll be paying sticker at Penn (I did ED, though I think my parents will cover all my living and personal expenses since I'm coming straight from UG), and I'm not 100% comfortable with it (though I wouldn't be 100% comfortable paying sticker at HYS!), but it's not really something I'm depressed about or anything. So I guess I'm looking at ~150k. Personally I would be ok with sticker at the T6 or MVPB, but below that I'd begin to worry. As for a satisfactory outcome, anything over ~80k a year and I'll be ok, ~100k and I'll be happy, ~160k and I'll be ecstatic. I guess we'll see.

Mudhop
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby Mudhop » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:13 pm

1.
YHS: Debt wouldn't be a major factor. I'd be happy to pay sticker.
T-14: 100K. Maybe as high as 150K for CCN, but no higher.
Others: I only applied to my local T30, and I wouldn't incur more than about $40K in debt to attend.

2.
I'd be comfortable going as low as 1.25:1 for YHS, but I'd like to keep it at or below 0.8:1 coming from any other school.

I should note that I'm fortunate enough to not have any debt from undergrad right now, but if I did, that would certainly limit the amount I would be willing to take out for law school. I wouldn't want to make my total debt load higher than the above totals, including any undergrad loans.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 pm

Unless they see fit to throw some money at me, I'm prepared to pay sticker at Northwestern. I'm not exactly "comfortable" with it, but I'm more comfortable with that gamble than $100k at the local T2, which was my only other real consideration.

msuz
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby msuz » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:30 pm

.
Last edited by msuz on Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby crumpetsandtea » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:51 pm

Paul Campos wrote:(1) How much law school debt are you willing to incur? I realize that for many people the answer to this question will turn on what law school(s) they get into, so feel free to give an answer in the form of (for example) A at a T-6, B at a T-14, C at a T-30, D at a T-50, etc.

(2) What would you consider a satisfactory outcome in regard to the ratio between your total law school debt and your salary in your first post-law school job, not counting judicial clerkships?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Sticker at a T14.

25-50% at a T16-T20, but ONLY if it's a very competitive school in an area I want to practice in (think: UCLA over UMN, since I'd rather practice in CA over MN)

Would not attend below a T20 w/o full scholly with no stips in area I want to practice (LA, SF, Chi).

lifqiu
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby lifqiu » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:34 pm

Paul Campos wrote:(1) How much law school debt are you willing to incur? I realize that for many people the answer to this question will turn on what law school(s) they get into, so feel free to give an answer in the form of (for example) A at a T-6, B at a T-14, C at a T-30, D at a T-50, etc.

(2) What would you consider a satisfactory outcome in regard to the ratio between your total law school debt and your salary in your first post-law school job, not counting judicial clerkships?

Thanks in advance for any responses.


A: (1-3) sticker price is ok... (4-6) 125k
B: 100k (VERY uncomfortable, but if it has to be)
C: 25k
d: 0 - would not go unless 100% scholarship

flcath
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby flcath » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:06 am

(1) Any amount. I have no better options, and I view this as essentially gov't welfare. I am "paying" (this gets scare quotes since I'll never pay it back) for the 3 years of chillaxing in a dignified, relatively stress-free environment.

(2) Any job would be a nice, surprising bonus to get out of this experience, but it isn't necessary.



If you've got a better idea--i.e., one that does not involve me taking a blue collar job that's beneath me, and will lead to better financial stability than the plan above--then I'll listen. (Must be ITE realistic.) If you don't think my expectations and feelings of entitlement are wise/fair/moral, then either (1) change the law, or (2) go fornicate a length of rebar. Otherwise, I'll continue to take advantage of the free gov't money. Thanks, and much love!

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North
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby North » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:54 pm

1. I'd be willing to pay sticker ($150K-$250K+) at any T-14 + Vanderbilt (because I'm in the south). With some luck, I won't actualy have to pay that much, but I'm willing to. I value the prestige of these schools more than their cost. I think that, no matter the current economy, a degree from a prestigious law school will serve me better over a lifetime than any other more affordable degree. That said, if I end up getting shut out of the T-14, I'd be willing to go no more than $100K in debt for just a few schools like Notre Dame and Boston College. That would be a more difficult thing to rationalize, though. The lowest I'd dip is for my state schools -- UF and FSU -- at which I'd be able to pay in-state tuition.

2. I'd be truly happy with Big Law or Big Gov. If that doesn't happen, I'd be fine with any J. D. required job. I'd just be a little sad.

TL; DR:
1.
T-14 + Vanderbilt: Any price.
T-30 + lay prestige: No more than $100K.
T-50 + state flagship: In-state tuition.

2. Goal is Big Law salary or Big Gov prestige. Aside from that, any J.D. Required job with a salary above $50K.

ETA: I think I might be a prestige whore. Yeah, definitely.

flcath wrote:I have no better options, and I view this as essentially gov't welfare. I am "paying" (this gets scare quotes since I'll never pay it back) for the 3 years of chillaxing in a dignified, relatively stress-free environment.
Sigh.

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JDizzle2015
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby JDizzle2015 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:41 pm

(1) Sticker for T14+strong regionals (i.e. UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy...maybe BU/BC but less optimistic after talking to their recent alumni)
Sliding scale for schools other than the ones listed depending on employment data, opportunity costs and some quantifiable $-amount assigned for the intangible assets that come with a JD (e.g. prestige/knowledge of the law for business/etc).

(2) 1:~0.6 (debt:salary)

Although I think I have always had a fairly high risk appetite.

**From looking at the responses in this thread and comparing with the numbers in their profiles (if they provided it), it seems to me that people may adjust their tolerance for risk after assessing their chances of admission. Might be something worth noting on a study.

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beezy08
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby beezy08 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:00 pm

(1) I would pay for sticker for HYS, max 150K for the rest of the T14 plus possibly Vandy (cuz I want the Southeast), and max $75K for a T50, but there are other factors involved. If the T50 was low on the food chain in a saturated market, I probably wouldn't go at all, but if the T50 was dominant in it's market (i.e. flagship state school) I would pay what I said above.

(2) 1:1 would be great, but probably not possible. 3:2 would be doable.
Last edited by beezy08 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

727813
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby 727813 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:02 pm

(1) I would take on debt in these amounts:

a. T3: any amount (~200k)
b. T15: select schools only (~100k)
c. T30: select schools only (~50k)


(2) I expect to make $160k so the ratios vary among the different groups, ideal is (1:1)

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IHeartPhilly
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby IHeartPhilly » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:17 pm

Would not pay sticker for anything T14+.

Turned down T40 sticker & T50 Instate for a low TT's $$.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Questions for current applicants

Postby NoodleyOne » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:18 pm

T6 I'm expecting sticker if I get in at all, and will go biglaw after law school. Rest of T14 hopefully I can get some $, but no matter where I go I'm going to be gunning for biglaw (and I would get in-state from UVA, so that would help a little). Anything out of T-14 I'm going to want close to a full ride, but even then I would take the debt to go to a better school.




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