166....stuck in the middle?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
candidate33
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 pm

166....stuck in the middle?

Postby candidate33 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:35 am

After reading everything on this site related to the LSAT I now think I may have made a huge mistake by not retaking...I got a 166 on my first try, and was averaging only SLIGHTLY higher during practice, which made me think it wasn't work retaking. Now I'm realizing that even one point higher could have made a big difference. With a 166 I feel like I'm in an awkward position...I don't know whether to even bother applying to schools in the top 20. I guess my question is how much difference does one point make? If I'm not happy with my cycle I have no problem holding off a year and reapplying next cycle with (hopefully) more impressive numbers. I apologize if this is a repeat thread.

User avatar
top30man
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby top30man » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:39 am

candidate33 wrote:After reading everything on this site related to the LSAT I now think I may have made a huge mistake by not retaking...I got a 166 on my first try, and was averaging only SLIGHTLY higher during practice, which made me think it wasn't work retaking. Now I'm realizing that even one point higher could have made a big difference. With a 166 I feel like I'm in an awkward position...I don't know whether to even bother applying to schools in the top 20. I guess my question is how much difference does one point make? If I'm not happy with my cycle I have no problem holding off a year and reapplying next cycle with (hopefully) more impressive numbers. I apologize if this is a repeat thread.

I retook a 166. I didn't score my pt average but I upped myself to a 169. I think it's worth a retake. For me it's the difference between a top 30 and a t14. Even one point will help you significantly.

User avatar
candidate33
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby candidate33 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:49 am

I agree...I only wish I had stumbled across this site sooner. My undergrad didn't help me at all to prepare for law school applications. There were only TWO people who scored higher than me on the Oct. LSAT. My advisor actually looked shocked when I told her I was thinking of retaking it...I have a good GPA (3.72) and I'm only 22 so I don't really mind waiting a year. I'm starting to think I could be selling myself short by settling for a T-30 (basically all I applied to). If anyone else has some insight into this or insight into what to do with a year off/how to improve chances at T-14 I would love to hear.

User avatar
Shaggy
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:42 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby Shaggy » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:58 am

Hey man I think that you should seriously consider retaking a 166 and going to a better ranked school. Your gpa is way too good to waste on a T-30 school when if you just increase to a 170, you will have a great shot at several schools in the T-14. I don't know what your studying schedule was like, but I hit a 179 after consistently taking practice tests after practice tests for my retake. Don't sell yourself short. And even if you don't increase, retaking will not hurt you too much.

If you haven't read this already, then here is the best advice you can find on retaking. Good luck.

User avatar
smokeylarue
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby smokeylarue » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:56 am

Retake bro. I went from 167 to 172.

User avatar
Justice Humper
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:15 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby Justice Humper » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:14 am

I do not think retaking is the best idea.

User avatar
soitgoes9
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:45 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby soitgoes9 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:23 am

Its a toss up was there more you could to get ready? But in general I am in favor of taking time off retake or not, you will gain perspective--or at least I did.

User avatar
omninode
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:09 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby omninode » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:04 am

Justice Humper wrote:I do not think retaking is the best idea.


Agreed. If you cannot score significantly higher during practice, chances are you will not be able to do so on a retake. Save yourself the stress of another LSAT round and just work with the score you have.

User avatar
soitgoes9
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:45 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby soitgoes9 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:24 am

omninode wrote:
Justice Humper wrote:I do not think retaking is the best idea.


Agreed. If you cannot score significantly higher during practice, chances are you will not be able to do so on a retake. Save yourself the stress of another LSAT round and just work with the score you have.



True unless the OP could have studied more/better.

User avatar
candidate33
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby candidate33 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:19 pm

Well I'm obviously still applying this cycle. All of my apps are submitted and I'm waiting to hear back. At this point, I just wondered if maybe I should retake in June just to see if I could do better. I didn't retake bc I was PT'ing around 167-169 and I got a 166. I also couldn't bring myself to do it all over again. However, I definitely could have studied harder...I took a Testmasters course (but missed a few classes and didn't do all the hw) and then took about 7 practice tests on my own, simulating real conditions and going over my answers carefully. I thought maybe if I took about 10 more practice tests leading up to the June LSAT I could improve my score by a couple points.

User avatar
candidate33
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby candidate33 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:20 pm

Maybe I should add that my first diagnostic was a dreadful 153**edit

User avatar
BeerMaker
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:01 am

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby BeerMaker » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:54 pm

candidate33 wrote:After reading everything on this site related to the LSAT I now think I may have made a huge mistake by not retaking...I got a 166 on my first try, and was averaging only SLIGHTLY higher during practice, which made me think it wasn't work retaking. Now I'm realizing that even one point higher could have made a big difference. With a 166 I feel like I'm in an awkward position...I don't know whether to even bother applying to schools in the top 20. I guess my question is how much difference does one point make? If I'm not happy with my cycle I have no problem holding off a year and reapplying next cycle with (hopefully) more impressive numbers. I apologize if this is a repeat thread.


Don't sweat not retaking. Too many people rush to retake and try and prepare within a month or two. This is a bad idea for most people unless they have a real reason to believe they blew it on the test. I lot of people retake and then they're humbled by the poor score again. If you're simply at a 166, I would take a year off and study really hard for like 6 months. A 166 is a good score. You're obviously not retarded to get a score that good. This is truly a question only you can answer. If you're very motivated, you can improve to a 170. Most people are not that motivated and that's why they will tell you not to retake. You also hear Deans state that most applicants don't improve much from test to test. This is true. Most people don't study hard enough.

I would not hesitate to apply and play this cycle through. You might even have some fun throwing your apps at some reach schools and taking some risks (if you have the money).

User avatar
Gail
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:11 am

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby Gail » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:30 pm

BeerMaker wrote:
candidate33 wrote:After reading everything on this site related to the LSAT I now think I may have made a huge mistake by not retaking...I got a 166 on my first try, and was averaging only SLIGHTLY higher during practice, which made me think it wasn't work retaking. Now I'm realizing that even one point higher could have made a big difference. With a 166 I feel like I'm in an awkward position...I don't know whether to even bother applying to schools in the top 20. I guess my question is how much difference does one point make? If I'm not happy with my cycle I have no problem holding off a year and reapplying next cycle with (hopefully) more impressive numbers. I apologize if this is a repeat thread.


Don't sweat not retaking. Too many people rush to retake and try and prepare within a month or two. This is a bad idea for most people unless they have a real reason to believe they blew it on the test. I lot of people retake and then they're humbled by the poor score again. If you're simply at a 166, I would take a year off and study really hard for like 6 months. A 166 is a good score. You're obviously not retarded to get a score that good. This is truly a question only you can answer. If you're very motivated, you can improve to a 170. Most people are not that motivated and that's why they will tell you not to retake. You also hear Deans state that most applicants don't improve much from test to test. This is true. Most people don't study hard enough.

I would not hesitate to apply and play this cycle through. You might even have some fun throwing your apps at some reach schools and taking some risks (if you have the money).


Even if OP can only improve by 1 point, I suggest retaking it. 167 is such a huge jump from 166. Really. With a 166 you might as well just have a 164.

The average increase is like 2 points, right? 168 puts you in the top 20. 166 scratches the top 30.

User avatar
BeerMaker
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:01 am

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby BeerMaker » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:17 pm

"With a 166 you might as well just have a 164."

Wrong. But I agree with everything else you said.

User avatar
burtonrideclub
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:10 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby burtonrideclub » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:19 pm

I made 166 twice then retook it and got a 171. I averaged around 170 during PT's FWIW. Worth a retake I think.

User avatar
candidate33
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby candidate33 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:50 am

I actually see your point about a 166 being closer to a 164 than to a 167. 166 puts me just below the median at some good schools that I would love to go to (GW, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt 2pts below, etc.) A 167/168 would give me a solid shot at these schools, and more...obviously its totally pointless to sit here and wish for a higher score haha but I think its interesting just how much of a jump there is between 165/166 and 167/168.

User avatar
candidate33
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby candidate33 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:53 am

Also thanks everyone for the advice..I'm glad I didnt rush to retake but it sounds like people do successfully achieve higher scores the second and even third time around..something to consider

User avatar
topper10s
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:51 am

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby topper10s » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:04 am

I'm not going to lie, I have a 166 and I'm very tempted to re-take. However, with my 166 and 3.7x (frustrating because that is basically median at all the schools I would actually consider attending), I have gotten in to USC, Loyola with a lot of money, Wisconsin, and William and Mary with a good amount of money. So to say a 166 barely scratches the top 30 is misleading, but damn I have really noticed that even a 167 would be way better for me.

User avatar
mrmojojak
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:54 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby mrmojojak » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:15 am

Fellow 166er checking in. I do feel like I'm stuck in limbo. I admit it's a little stressful not having a great shot at a lot of the top 20 schools but I don't think we're auto rejects either. But this score got me fee waivers to every school I wanted to apply to so I don't have much room to complain. I just tried to craft the best applications I could. I personally don't think I'll retake since RC is the section that always kills me. The sad thing is I read and write often, just slowly.

User avatar
ilovesf
Posts: 11804
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:20 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby ilovesf » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:24 am

I had a 165, so slightly similar to you. When you are applying to the range of schools you're looking at, 2 or 3 points can make or break you and can dramatically change what kind of scholarship you might receive. It sounds like you didn't put tons of effort into studying, and you don't care if you wait another year to apply. If I were you, I'd retake and apply later. You can probably do better by taking more than 7 tests and really rigorously studying. It could really help out your cycle.

User avatar
candidate33
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby candidate33 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:49 am

I agree with everything said about retaking..I think if I were to retake I would have to be more motivated to study this time around. Easier said than done....Did any of you feel like you hit a plateau while studying? That was my problem, I enjoyed studying as long as my score kept improving..but at some point I just started getting the same score over and over. That may have had a teensy bit to do with why I only took 7 PTs after my course ended (bad excuse I know). Are all of you 166ers applying this cycle? Toppers that is good to hear esp about USC!

User avatar
ilovesf
Posts: 11804
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:20 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby ilovesf » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:53 am

candidate33 wrote:I agree with everything said about retaking..I think if I were to retake I would have to be more motivated to study this time around. Easier said than done....Did any of you feel like you hit a plateau while studying? That was my problem, I enjoyed studying as long as my score kept improving..but at some point I just started getting the same score over and over. That may have had a teensy bit to do with why I only took 7 PTs after my course ended (bad excuse I know). Are all of you 166ers applying this cycle? Toppers that is good to hear esp about USC!

I applied last cycle, I'm in school now. My GPA is way lower than yours, so I'm not in the same school range. I still wish I had retaken my 165. I was PTing in the 170's. My problem was 100% my nerves and anxiety, I totally freaked out on test day. On all of my PTs, I only got -1 on the LG, on test day I had -4 because I spazzed out and ran out of time.

User avatar
candidate33
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby candidate33 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:01 am

That's something I hear alot..people PTing in the low 170s and ending up in the mid 160s seems common. I never took a practice test where I hit 170. 169 was my highest. The more I hear about this the more committed I am to retaking June.

User avatar
Gail
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:11 am

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby Gail » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:39 pm

candidate33 wrote:I actually see your point about a 166 being closer to a 164 than to a 167. 166 puts me just below the median at some good schools that I would love to go to (GW, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt 2pts below, etc.) A 167/168 would give me a solid shot at these schools, and more...obviously its totally pointless to sit here and wish for a higher score haha but I think its interesting just how much of a jump there is between 165/166 and 167/168.


I'm a fan of hyperbole. Obviously 166 isn't just as bad as a 164. I'm sure anyone that scored a 164 would give a finger and a toe to get a 166, but my point has validity.

It seems to go like this,

160.161...162....163.164..165.166.............................167...168..169.......170.171.....172....173.........


It wouldn't be so bad if not for the insane LSAT inflation in recent years. 166 won't even get me into Emory or Illinois now, I don't think. Really wish that there were at least some penalty for retaking, it would make things a lot fairer and probably a lot more indicative of actual ability to succeed in law school. If you score a 173 your first time, you're a 173. Score it your second time... You might be, but I have more doubts.

But hell... C'est la vie.
Last edited by Gail on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gail
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:11 am

Re: 166....stuck in the middle?

Postby Gail » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:43 pm

.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], euler, YoungSimba and 3 guests