General questions for admission

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kfeaston
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General questions for admission

Postby kfeaston » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:32 pm

I currently go to a school (ECPI University Newport News) it's not the greatest school in the world but the one thing they do is do all their classes in 5 week terms back to back. I finished a term last Thursday, this past Monday I was already in my next set of classes. We only have 2 weeks off a year, 1 between Christmas and New years and the other the week of 4th of July. It is a fully accredited school and William and Mary Admissions have stated that they totally accept that institution's degree. I currently have a 3.64 GPA and by the end of January I will have a 3.69. This kind of leads me to another question which I will ask later. I am scheduled to take the Feb LSAT and I am currently unemployed till the beginning of January. At this point all I do is go to school and study for the LSAT. I had no idea my LSAT score was going to be this hard and competitive to get into law school. I took my first diagnostic Dec 8th and had a raw score of 55 which was somewhere around a 150. That is a horrible score from what I am reading and William and Mary told me they're really looking for someone with a 166 LSAT. So I have to increase my raw score by like 30 points or so to get that good of a score! I will graduate from my school by the end of July by the way.

I have been studying about 10-12 hours a day since the 8th of this month and plan on really hammering logic games during my week off from school next week. Logic games seem to be hit or miss with me for some reason. Either way in order to get the score I need, I need to do way better regardless. Another question I have (as mentioned previously) is about when the LSAC report your GPA to your interested law school. For example, William and Mary's application deadline is March 1st. However, I will be done with another term as of March 4th and could possibly get my grades posted on my transcript if I take my finals early and do my projects early, and have the new grades posted in the transcript by march 1st possibly which would boost my GPA from a 3.69 to a 3.72. Now, I will have to report, lets say my 3.69 that I will have as of late January, but is that the final score that LSAC will receive and submit to William and Mary? Or can I submit them the 3.69 before William and Mary's application deadline of March 1st and then March 1st (or whenever I can get my teacher to submit my grades by) submit my NEW transcript which will reflect that term that just passed which would give me a GPA of 3.72. Will William and Mary see the 3.72 via this avenue, or will they stick to the 3.69 that they received initially?

I live in Newport News VA and William and Mary is in the next town over (Williamsburg) and it is where my father went to law school (I would be a legacy there, does that help at all?) I am also going to apply to Regent University as their median LSAT is 151 and my GPA was way higher than their median GPA. I originally grew up in Northern NJ right outside of NY and always wanted to return there so that is why my #1 would be NYU, but I would be just as equally happy (and probably slightly more realistic than NYU) to go to William and Mary. If I went to William and Mary I would not have to move and I would be able to keep my job I am at (working midnight shifts) that I am about to start that pays pretty well for the area I live in. However, Richmond university is another option due to their average LSAT is a 161. The LSAT is where I am lacking and it feels like it is taking forever to improve my scores on practice exams. I have done 9 of them, 7 timed and 2 untimed. The untimed ones I get a raw score of about 70 which was a 160. I am slightly improving by maybe a few points since my timed diagnostic, as I took one today and bombed logic games compared to the diagnostic, but got a 59 raw score which is 4 points above the diagnostic.

I do not have the money to pay for a class or tutor, as I am unemployed, however I did buy 20 LSAC prep tests and 5 other LSAT books (Princeton Review, Kaplan Reading Comprehension, Logic games for dummies, etc.) Is it possible if I keep putting in the studying like Im doing to get to a 166+ LSAT by Feb 11? I am as of today, for the first time, now going over all the answers I got wrong on all 9 LSAT's and trying to do them again and then if I get it wrong, circle in red the right answer once I make another attempt and then to to fully grasp why it is right and why my choice was wrong. I am at this point doing it just for the logical reasoning part, as the amount of material there is to have to go through (9 LSAT tests).

Also should I do more untimed tests, or just stick to traditional timed tests?

So as far as all the questions I asked, from my father being a previous William and Mary Law School graduate, the LSAC GPA reporting issue timeline, realistic possibility of improvement on the LSAT as far as raw score and actual LSAT score to reach my 166 goal, should I do more untimed tests, and any other ideas that either relate to my initial post question, or any tips in general that you feel would be beneficial.

Thank you!

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Blessedassurance
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby Blessedassurance » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:51 pm

If you're going to buy more books, I'll probably suggest the Logic Games Bible and probably the Atlas/Manhattan Logic Games book (I would use this if you have trouble with grouping games and the LG Bible strategy). You'll need a dramatic improvement to get into NYU. I don't know your budget but the books can be purchased at steep discounts on half.com.

Your LSAC gpa would be whatever gpa has been calculated based on the transcripts you've sent in at any given point. Whenever you receive grades, you send an updated transcript to LSAC and they will update it accordingly. If you have already applied to schools, LSAC will automatically send another report (free of charge) to the schools you've already applied to.

You just have to keep practicing and practicing till you're comfortably testing in a certain range. Also remember that it is possible to under-perform on test-day vis-a-vis your practice score(s).

You should also do a little bit of research about the legal industry in the status quo etc.

062914123
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby 062914123 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:47 pm

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Last edited by 062914123 on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mrtoren
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby mrtoren » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:27 am

Some people can hit 165+ pretty easily, others simply can't make the mark. Bear in mind that only about 25% of scores, 1 in 4, fall between a 158 and a 180. Most are grouped toward the lower of the two as the scores fall on a bell curve.

Put in the study time and see what happens. If you get there, you get there. If not, law maybe isn't your strong suit..its not an inherited trait.

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JDizzle2015
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby JDizzle2015 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:13 pm

kfeaston wrote:If I went to William and Mary I would not have to move and I would be able to keep my job I am at (working midnight shifts) that I am about to start that pays pretty well for the area I live in.

I agree with what the previous posters have said re LSAT prep, browsing TLS and your GPA but would like to add that it is probably a bad idea to work during your first year of law school so I wouldn't use the point above as a determinate on where you end up going to law school.

Edit: I was mistaken about ABA's ban on working during your first year.
Last edited by JDizzle2015 on Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:16 pm

JDizzle2015 wrote:
kfeaston wrote:If I went to William and Mary I would not have to move and I would be able to keep my job I am at (working midnight shifts) that I am about to start that pays pretty well for the area I live in.

I agree with what the previous posters have said re LSAT prep, browsing TLS and your GPA but would like to add that it is against ABA rules (and a bad idea) to work during your first year of law school so I wouldn't use the point above as a determinate on where you end up going to law school.
It's not against ABA rules to work, it's against the rules to work more than 20 hours/week as a full-time student.

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JDizzle2015
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby JDizzle2015 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:18 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
JDizzle2015 wrote:
kfeaston wrote:If I went to William and Mary I would not have to move and I would be able to keep my job I am at (working midnight shifts) that I am about to start that pays pretty well for the area I live in.

I agree with what the previous posters have said re LSAT prep, browsing TLS and your GPA but would like to add that it is against ABA rules (and a bad idea) to work during your first year of law school so I wouldn't use the point above as a determinate on where you end up going to law school.
It's not against ABA rules to work, it's against the rules to work more than 20 hours/week as a full-time student.

I stand corrected... during a law school tour, I thought they said the ABA forbid it. I must have remembered incorrectly.

kfeaston
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby kfeaston » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:58 am

mrtoren wrote:Some people can hit 165+ pretty easily, others simply can't make the mark. Bear in mind that only about 25% of scores, 1 in 4, fall between a 158 and a 180. Most are grouped toward the lower of the two as the scores fall on a bell curve.

Put in the study time and see what happens. If you get there, you get there. If not, law maybe isn't your strong suit..its not an inherited trait.



Well Im a very driven person as I write this I am going through Logic games Bible by Powerscore which I just picked up today and Im only on page 57 and I have learned more about logic game in these past 57 pages than I knew before total. I was missing on average 14 questions from logic games alone! I am putting in 12 hours a day studying for hopefully at least another 2 weeks then studying probably 4-6 hours a day once my job starts beginning next month. I can already see an improvement in my logical reasoning, I haven't been studying reading comp yet, as I wanted to really hammer logic games this next week or so. That being said, is a 20 point increase possible? What would you say the chances of hitting a 167 would be with a cold diagnostic of 150 be?

062914123
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby 062914123 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:18 am

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Last edited by 062914123 on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kfeaston
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:58 am

Re: General questions for admission

Postby kfeaston » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:57 am

bee wrote:
kfeaston wrote:
mrtoren wrote:Some people can hit 165+ pretty easily, others simply can't make the mark. Bear in mind that only about 25% of scores, 1 in 4, fall between a 158 and a 180. Most are grouped toward the lower of the two as the scores fall on a bell curve.

Put in the study time and see what happens. If you get there, you get there. If not, law maybe isn't your strong suit..its not an inherited trait.



Well Im a very driven person as I write this I am going through Logic games Bible by Powerscore which I just picked up today and Im only on page 57 and I have learned more about logic game in these past 57 pages than I knew before total. I was missing on average 14 questions from logic games alone! I am putting in 12 hours a day studying for hopefully at least another 2 weeks then studying probably 4-6 hours a day once my job starts beginning next month. I can already see an improvement in my logical reasoning, I haven't been studying reading comp yet, as I wanted to really hammer logic games this next week or so. That being said, is a 20 point increase possible? What would you say the chances of hitting a 167 would be with a cold diagnostic of 150 be?


It's entirely possible, as many TLSers have reported, but is it really feasible to expect 20+ in 12 hours a day for 2 weeks (and is that kind of schedule feasible)? You gotta ask yourself that.



you misunderstood, thats what I am currently doing, I don't expect to be at my best till right around Feb 11th when I actually take the test. I was just implying how much effort I am putting into the amount of time I have within these next 2 months

062914123
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby 062914123 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:21 am

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Last edited by 062914123 on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Konner
Posts: 38
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Re: General questions for admission

Postby Konner » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:30 am

kfeaston wrote:Well Im a very driven person as I write this I am going through Logic games Bible by Powerscore which I just picked up today and Im only on page 57 and I have learned more about logic game in these past 57 pages than I knew before total. I was missing on average 14 questions from logic games alone! I am putting in 12 hours a day studying for hopefully at least another 2 weeks then studying probably 4-6 hours a day once my job starts beginning next month. I can already see an improvement in my logical reasoning, I haven't been studying reading comp yet, as I wanted to really hammer logic games this next week or so. That being said, is a 20 point increase possible? What would you say the chances of hitting a 167 would be with a cold diagnostic of 150 be?


That kind of increase is possible. I don't advise the breakneck pace you're setting, but if you absolutely must attend law school this fall, then so be it. As suggested, check the LSAT Prep and Discussion forum. Lots of good info there. I should note that a little introspection will take you a long way with this test.

Do you know in what areas you're struggling? And why? Making any basic mistakes like bringing outside knowledge into the test?

kfeaston
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:58 am

Re: General questions for admission

Postby kfeaston » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:02 pm

Konner wrote:
kfeaston wrote:Well Im a very driven person as I write this I am going through Logic games Bible by Powerscore which I just picked up today and Im only on page 57 and I have learned more about logic game in these past 57 pages than I knew before total. I was missing on average 14 questions from logic games alone! I am putting in 12 hours a day studying for hopefully at least another 2 weeks then studying probably 4-6 hours a day once my job starts beginning next month. I can already see an improvement in my logical reasoning, I haven't been studying reading comp yet, as I wanted to really hammer logic games this next week or so. That being said, is a 20 point increase possible? What would you say the chances of hitting a 167 would be with a cold diagnostic of 150 be?


That kind of increase is possible. I don't advise the breakneck pace you're setting, but if you absolutely must attend law school this fall, then so be it. As suggested, check the LSAT Prep and Discussion forum. Lots of good info there. I should note that a little introspection will take you a long way with this test.

Do you know in what areas you're struggling? And why? Making any basic mistakes like bringing outside knowledge into the test?


So far my reading comp sucks, but I havent really read anything other than a Kaplan book and an advisor I have at school (whom is a lawyer) told me not to do methods that Kaplan teaches for reading comp such as writing on the sides of the story etc. Im getting better at Logical reasoning though

Konner
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:43 am

Re: General questions for admission

Postby Konner » Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:02 pm

kfeaston wrote:
Konner wrote:
kfeaston wrote:Well Im a very driven person as I write this I am going through Logic games Bible by Powerscore which I just picked up today and Im only on page 57 and I have learned more about logic game in these past 57 pages than I knew before total. I was missing on average 14 questions from logic games alone! I am putting in 12 hours a day studying for hopefully at least another 2 weeks then studying probably 4-6 hours a day once my job starts beginning next month. I can already see an improvement in my logical reasoning, I haven't been studying reading comp yet, as I wanted to really hammer logic games this next week or so. That being said, is a 20 point increase possible? What would you say the chances of hitting a 167 would be with a cold diagnostic of 150 be?


That kind of increase is possible. I don't advise the breakneck pace you're setting, but if you absolutely must attend law school this fall, then so be it. As suggested, check the LSAT Prep and Discussion forum. Lots of good info there. I should note that a little introspection will take you a long way with this test.

Do you know in what areas you're struggling? And why? Making any basic mistakes like bringing outside knowledge into the test?


So far my reading comp sucks, but I havent really read anything other than a Kaplan book and an advisor I have at school (whom is a lawyer) told me not to do methods that Kaplan teaches for reading comp such as writing on the sides of the story etc. Im getting better at Logical reasoning though



With LR, it really helps to have some orientation in symbolic logic. Doesn't have to be extensive. Just knowing how to avoid being duped by the reversal of an If-Then will help. Actually that can help in LGs too.

I think RC is hardest, myself. LGs probably require the most work, but there's generally one answer that can be determined. I feel RC is often really subjective -- which may indicate I'm just not the right person to suggest anything for RC. I will say it's a good idea to read the questions first. And practice being an active reader is a skill that will not let you down.

As for using Kaplan's method, if it works man use it. Though I will warn it's hard to unlearn a method, even if it's less efficient than something else. The name of the game with the LSAT is to make the test your own.

Sorry if these are a bunch of non-answers.

kfeaston
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:58 am

Re: General questions for admission

Postby kfeaston » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:02 pm

Konner wrote:
kfeaston wrote:
Konner wrote:
kfeaston wrote:Well Im a very driven person as I write this I am going through Logic games Bible by Powerscore which I just picked up today and Im only on page 57 and I have learned more about logic game in these past 57 pages than I knew before total. I was missing on average 14 questions from logic games alone! I am putting in 12 hours a day studying for hopefully at least another 2 weeks then studying probably 4-6 hours a day once my job starts beginning next month. I can already see an improvement in my logical reasoning, I haven't been studying reading comp yet, as I wanted to really hammer logic games this next week or so. That being said, is a 20 point increase possible? What would you say the chances of hitting a 167 would be with a cold diagnostic of 150 be?


That kind of increase is possible. I don't advise the breakneck pace you're setting, but if you absolutely must attend law school this fall, then so be it. As suggested, check the LSAT Prep and Discussion forum. Lots of good info there. I should note that a little introspection will take you a long way with this test.

Do you know in what areas you're struggling? And why? Making any basic mistakes like bringing outside knowledge into the test?


So far my reading comp sucks, but I havent really read anything other than a Kaplan book and an advisor I have at school (whom is a lawyer) told me not to do methods that Kaplan teaches for reading comp such as writing on the sides of the story etc. Im getting better at Logical reasoning though



With LR, it really helps to have some orientation in symbolic logic. Doesn't have to be extensive. Just knowing how to avoid being duped by the reversal of an If-Then will help. Actually that can help in LGs too.

I think RC is hardest, myself. LGs probably require the most work, but there's generally one answer that can be determined. I feel RC is often really subjective -- which may indicate I'm just not the right person to suggest anything for RC. I will say it's a good idea to read the questions first. And practice being an active reader is a skill that will not let you down.

As for using Kaplan's method, if it works man use it. Though I will warn it's hard to unlearn a method, even if it's less efficient than something else. The name of the game with the LSAT is to make the test your own.

Sorry if these are a bunch of non-answers.


Actually it is rather insightful the bottom line is I need to study and there is no way around that. I am going through the Logic game bible and it is the best by far of all the logic game books I have looked at. When I get some more money I want to get the other 2 bible for reading comp and LR. If those 2 books are anywhere near as good as the LG bible then I should have a good chance of getting over some sticking points I have, such as Parallel the reasoning and principle questions especially

Konner
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:43 am

Re: General questions for admission

Postby Konner » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:20 am

kfeaston wrote:Actually it is rather insightful the bottom line is I need to study and there is no way around that. I am going through the Logic game bible and it is the best by far of all the logic game books I have looked at. When I get some more money I want to get the other 2 bible for reading comp and LR. If those 2 books are anywhere near as good as the LG bible then I should have a good chance of getting over some sticking points I have, such as Parallel the reasoning and principle questions especially


Sounds good. Good luck. Oh! By the way, you asked a question about timed versus untimed. Speed is second only to mastery. Not a lot of time for either in your case. I would suggest setting aside 2-4 tests to take under timed constraints. Do the rest either completely untimed, or set the time, but continue working if time runs out. It may benefit you to time yourself in individual games or passages, if you're really, truly interested honing in on problem areas. OTOH, it could easily freak you out, and confidence is key.

FWIW, the most importance advice I received about LGs was taking my time on setup before jumping to questions. I found that even a minute or two extra during setup shaved time off the game overall.

IIRC, you've yet to take an administration. Consider doing those timed tests with LSAT ambient noise, or in a library. Don't take extra breaks between sessions.

Anyway, hope that's been helpful. Nose to the grindstone! Good luck!




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