Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

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BeerMaker
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Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby BeerMaker » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:35 pm

I have wondered this for quite some time. Given their national reputation and all of the mystique that is ND, why haven't they moved ahead in the rankings? They have a top 5 business school if I'm not mistaken. There is no doubt that ND's name goes a long way in the non law world (I.e., the lay person is more impressed with ND than Chicago, etc.). So what's holding them back?
Last edited by BeerMaker on Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

bdubs
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby bdubs » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:36 pm

You are mistaken. Notre Dame is well regarded as an undergraduate institution and that is about it. Their business school is nowhere near the top 5.

Most lay person ideas of prestige are formed by 1) sports 2) undergraduate program ranking

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:38 pm

USNews isn't designed to emulate lay perceptions of which law schools are best. That's why the rankings don't start with Harvard at 1 and Georgetown at 2.

kaiser
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby kaiser » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:43 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:USNews isn't designed to emulate lay perceptions of which law schools are best. That's why the rankings don't start with Harvard at 1 and Georgetown at 2.


I don't know a single person who thinks Georgetown is 2 in lay prestige. Maybe if I were from DC that would be different.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:47 pm

kaiser wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:USNews isn't designed to emulate lay perceptions of which law schools are best. That's why the rankings don't start with Harvard at 1 and Georgetown at 2.


I don't know a single person who thinks Georgetown is 2 in lay prestige. Maybe if I were from DC that would be different.

Ok, you could just see the larger point without quibbling over the exact "law prestige rankings" (a conversation this board has had enough), but I understand law school attracts the type of people prone to making unnecessary and subjective corrections at the expense of the broader discussion.

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Grizz
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby Grizz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:51 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
kaiser wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:USNews isn't designed to emulate lay perceptions of which law schools are best. That's why the rankings don't start with Harvard at 1 and Georgetown at 2.


I don't know a single person who thinks Georgetown is 2 in lay prestige. Maybe if I were from DC that would be different.

Ok, you could just see the larger point without quibbling over the exact "law prestige rankings" (a conversation this board has had enough), but I understand law school attracts the type of people prone to making unnecessary and subjective corrections at the expense of the broader discussion.

lol

kaiser
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby kaiser » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:52 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
kaiser wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:USNews isn't designed to emulate lay perceptions of which law schools are best. That's why the rankings don't start with Harvard at 1 and Georgetown at 2.


I don't know a single person who thinks Georgetown is 2 in lay prestige. Maybe if I were from DC that would be different.

Ok, you could just see the larger point without quibbling over the exact "law prestige rankings" (a conversation this board has had enough), but I understand law school attracts the type of people prone to making unnecessary and subjective corrections at the expense of the broader discussion.


I remember seeing someone's comment that you are the resident douche of TLS. I didn't read through the thread to find what comment prompted that observation. But thanks for the confirmation bro.

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Kabuo
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby Kabuo » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:54 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
kaiser wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:USNews isn't designed to emulate lay perceptions of which law schools are best. That's why the rankings don't start with Harvard at 1 and Georgetown at 2.


I don't know a single person who thinks Georgetown is 2 in lay prestige. Maybe if I were from DC that would be different.

Ok, you could just see the larger point without quibbling over the exact "law prestige rankings" (a conversation this board has had enough), but I understand law school attracts the type of people prone to making unnecessary and subjective corrections at the expense of the broader discussion.


It definitely attracts this type of person, but I think its bigger transgression is turning formerly innocent people into this type of person.

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby BiglawOrBust » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:08 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
kaiser wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:USNews isn't designed to emulate lay perceptions of which law schools are best. That's why the rankings don't start with Harvard at 1 and Georgetown at 2.


I don't know a single person who thinks Georgetown is 2 in lay prestige. Maybe if I were from DC that would be different.

Ok, you could just see the larger point without quibbling over the exact "law prestige rankings" (a conversation this board has had enough), but I understand law school attracts the type of people prone to making unnecessary and subjective corrections at the expense of the broader discussion.


--ImageRemoved--



Also, this thread is redickulous trolling.

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BeerMaker
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby BeerMaker » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:12 pm

Trolling my ass. Legit question, terd!

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby BiglawOrBust » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:15 pm

BeerMaker wrote:Trolling my ass. Legit Stupid question terd!


FTFY

MrAnon
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby MrAnon » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:15 pm

Its not even a well-regarded undergrad.

Take away sports. Would anyone care about the school, at all?

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Kabuo
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby Kabuo » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:20 pm

MrAnon wrote:Its not even a well-regarded undergrad.

Take away sports. Would anyone care about the school, at all?


To take a quick detour into srs poasts, ND's UG has been better ranked than its football team for recent memory.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:22 pm

bdubs wrote:You are mistaken. Notre Dame is well regarded as an undergraduate institution and that is about it. Their business school is nowhere near the top 5.

Most lay person ideas of prestige are formed by 1) sports 2) undergraduate program ranking and 3) the existence and strength of graduate and professional level programs


Edited for additional clarity. (3) is part of the reason why liberal arts colleges aren't generally as well regarded as their high research activity peers, and it's why some schools, (even those in the same "group") don't receive the same level of recognition.

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BeerMaker
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby BeerMaker » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:29 pm

BiglawOrBust wrote:
BeerMaker wrote:Trolling my ass. Legit Stupid question terd!


FTFY


You're cute.

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somewherewarm
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby somewherewarm » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:53 pm

I for one think it's a legitimate question BeerMaker. Given that, according to the 2009 Employment Data, ND outperforms most of the schools ranked with it in the combined stat of NLJ 250 and A3 Clerking; and the thread on this site discussing the most overrated and underrated schools, consistently mentioning ND as an underrated school, I'd be very interested in hearing why it isn't ranked higher.

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby BiglawOrBust » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:02 pm

BeerMaker wrote:
BiglawOrBust wrote:
BeerMaker wrote:Trolling my ass. Legit Stupid question terd!


FTFY


You're cute.


:oops:

somewherewarm wrote:I for one think it's a legitimate question BeerMaker. Given that, according to the 2009 Employment Data, ND outperforms most of the schools ranked with it in the combined stat of NLJ 250 and A3 Clerking; and the thread on this site discussing the most overrated and underrated schools, consistently mentioning ND as an underrated school, I'd be very interested in hearing why it isn't ranked higher.


This is silly. Look at the rankings. ND is 23rd, ranked behind schools it has no business outperforming (with the exception of maybe 3 or 4). How high do you really think it should be?

Also, hate to break it to you gents, but the rankings are not based solely on job prospects. :shock:

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somewherewarm
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby somewherewarm » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:35 pm

BiglawOrBust wrote:
somewherewarm wrote:I for one think it's a legitimate question BeerMaker. Given that, according to the 2009 Employment Data, ND outperforms most of the schools ranked with it in the combined stat of NLJ 250 and A3 Clerking; and the thread on this site discussing the most overrated and underrated schools, consistently mentioning ND as an underrated school, I'd be very interested in hearing why it isn't ranked higher.

This is silly. Look at the rankings. ND is 23rd, ranked behind schools it has no business outperforming (with the exception of maybe 3 or 4). How high do you really think it should be?

Also, hate to break it to you gents, but the rankings are not based solely on job prospects. :shock:


That is a very good point. I'm not sure what I think their ranking should be, it doesn't matter to me since I'm not applying there, but I am curious because it's considered underrated. I actually just looked at the law school rankings methodology and I saw that career placement is only 20% of any given school's rank. I could see ND losing points in the quality assessment metric which is 40% of a school's score and is composed of peer assessment and lawyers/judge assessment, since lay prestige and Catholic affiliation doesn't necessarily equate to a very favorable impression by those in academia and practicing attorneys/judges. I would hazard a guess that its underrated status on TLS is based purely on NLJ 250 + A3 Clerking stats and lay prestige.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby bernaldiaz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:38 pm

bdubs wrote:You are mistaken. Notre Dame is well regarded as an undergraduate institution and that is about it. Their business school is nowhere near the top 5.

Most lay person ideas of prestige are formed by 1) sports 2) undergraduate program ranking


Yeah, I agree. Am an undergrad at ND. Our grad programs really suck. Business school is about on par with the law school (low 20's). I think what this person was referring to is that our UNDERGRAD business school is #1 in the country, for whatever that is worth.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby bernaldiaz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:40 pm

MrAnon wrote:Its not even a well-regarded undergrad.

Take away sports. Would anyone care about the school, at all?


That's just not true.

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johansantana21
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby johansantana21 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:46 pm

Why it's mediocre ranking?

Cuz it's a mediocre law school.

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KeepitKind
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby KeepitKind » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:52 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
kaiser wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:USNews isn't designed to emulate lay perceptions of which law schools are best. That's why the rankings don't start with Harvard at 1 and Georgetown at 2.


I don't know a single person who thinks Georgetown is 2 in lay prestige. Maybe if I were from DC that would be different.

Ok, you could just see the larger point without quibbling over the exact "law prestige rankings" (a conversation this board has had enough), but I understand law school attracts the type of people prone to making unnecessary and subjective corrections at the expense of the broader discussion.


this sums up 85% of the discussion on TLS.

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BeerMaker
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby BeerMaker » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:56 pm

What are some of the ranking criteria that is holding a school like ND down? I wonder the same thing about, say, Vanderbilt. What is keeping Vandy from breaking the T14? Where are they falling short?

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Hjones33
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby Hjones33 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:58 pm

johansantana21 wrote:Why it's mediocre ranking?

Cuz it's a mediocre law school.


I know this is TLS, but since when is 23rd rank mediocre? Especially when you consider a lot of people thinking that if you add more weight to job prospects it would be a t20.

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johansantana21
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Re: Why ND's Mediocre Ranking?

Postby johansantana21 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:00 pm

Hjones33 wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:Why it's mediocre ranking?

Cuz it's a mediocre law school.


I know this is TLS, but since when is 23rd rank mediocre? Especially when you consider a lot of people thinking that if you add more weight to job prospects it would be a t20.


Have you looked at job prospects?

There's a huge dropoff in job prospects from around 17ish to everyone below.

50% biglaw secure to 25%.




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