C&F Question

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HellOnHeels
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C&F Question

Postby HellOnHeels » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:18 pm

I have a speeding camera ticket and a parking ticket. I didn't actually earn the parking ticket, my husband did, but we were in my car.

Do speeding camera tickets count as moving violations? Would these tickets count as a violation of the criminal law?

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MrKappus
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Re: C&F Question

Postby MrKappus » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:23 pm

stephinmd wrote:I have a speeding camera ticket and a parking ticket. I didn't actually earn the parking ticket, my husband did, but we were in my car.

Do speeding camera tickets count as moving violations? Would these tickets count as a violation of the criminal law?


You'd need to provide the app's question to get a valid opinion, but general rule for what law schools ask seems to be:
- speeding tickets, yes;
- parking tickets, no.

03121202698008
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Re: C&F Question

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:27 pm

Also look at the ticket. In a few states, they print right on that it is not actually a violation just an administrative penalty. Doesn't even go on your driving record.

HellOnHeels
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Re: C&F Question

Postby HellOnHeels » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:03 am

Both say they are citations.

And MrKappus, questions are worded as "cited for any violation of criminal law" (Michigan State), "felony, misdemeanor, or criminal offense or violation" (Temple), "charged w//convicted of crime of any kind, including all traffic violations, except parking violations" (WFU), "cited for, arrested for, charged w/ any violations of the law, including traffic violations" (Lewis and Clark), and Marquette asks about moving violations.

When I submitted my apps, I didn't think those stupid speed camera tickets counted, as they don't go on your driving record and your insurance can't go up (ticket specifically says this), but now I'm starting to think I should have disclosed, so I was going to send an addendum to those schools (better safe than sorry), and I didn't disclose the parking ticket, because it wasn't me that parked the car, but now I'm thinking I needed to since it was my car.

yuck :?

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Samara
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Re: C&F Question

Postby Samara » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:47 am

When in doubt, disclose. These are not things the schools are going to care about.

HellOnHeels
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Re: C&F Question

Postby HellOnHeels » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:59 am

Samara wrote:When in doubt, disclose. These are not things the schools are going to care about.

Would I just email the admissions office, explain the situation, and attach an addendum for the schools I had already applied to?

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Samara
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Re: C&F Question

Postby Samara » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:02 am

stephinmd wrote:
Samara wrote:When in doubt, disclose. These are not things the schools are going to care about.

Would I just email the admissions office, explain the situation, and attach an addendum for the schools I had already applied to?

Sounds like a plan!

HellOnHeels
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Re: C&F Question

Postby HellOnHeels » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:03 am

Samara wrote:
stephinmd wrote:
Samara wrote:When in doubt, disclose. These are not things the schools are going to care about.

Would I just email the admissions office, explain the situation, and attach an addendum for the schools I had already applied to?

Sounds like a plan!

Thanks so much! :)

gimmieadvice
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Re: C&F Question

Postby gimmieadvice » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:54 am

stephinmd wrote:Both say they are citations.

And MrKappus, questions are worded as "cited for any violation of criminal law" (Michigan State), "felony, misdemeanor, or criminal offense or violation" (Temple), "charged w//convicted of crime of any kind, including all traffic violations, except parking violations" (WFU), "cited for, arrested for, charged w/ any violations of the law, including traffic violations" (Lewis and Clark), and Marquette asks about moving violations.

When I submitted my apps, I didn't think those stupid speed camera tickets counted, as they don't go on your driving record and your insurance can't go up (ticket specifically says this), but now I'm starting to think I should have disclosed, so I was going to send an addendum to those schools (better safe than sorry), and I didn't disclose the parking ticket, because it wasn't me that parked the car, but now I'm thinking I needed to since it was my car.

yuck :?


That ticket does not fall into the guidelines of that question. Those camera tickets are not traffic violations in that they are not charging you with a section of the relevant states traffic code or criminal law. It merely a way for the DMV to get there hands on more money. Those tickets are written to the registered owner, not neccessarily the driver.

03121202698008
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Re: C&F Question

Postby 03121202698008 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:26 pm

gimmieadvice wrote:
stephinmd wrote:Both say they are citations.

And MrKappus, questions are worded as "cited for any violation of criminal law" (Michigan State), "felony, misdemeanor, or criminal offense or violation" (Temple), "charged w//convicted of crime of any kind, including all traffic violations, except parking violations" (WFU), "cited for, arrested for, charged w/ any violations of the law, including traffic violations" (Lewis and Clark), and Marquette asks about moving violations.

When I submitted my apps, I didn't think those stupid speed camera tickets counted, as they don't go on your driving record and your insurance can't go up (ticket specifically says this), but now I'm starting to think I should have disclosed, so I was going to send an addendum to those schools (better safe than sorry), and I didn't disclose the parking ticket, because it wasn't me that parked the car, but now I'm thinking I needed to since it was my car.

yuck :?


That ticket does not fall into the guidelines of that question. Those camera tickets are not traffic violations in that they are not charging you with a section of the relevant states traffic code or criminal law. It merely a way for the DMV to get there hands on more money. Those tickets are written to the registered owner, not neccessarily the driver.


Don't give legal advice. This will vary by state. In some states, they are explicitly traffic violations originating under the traffic code.

gimmieadvice
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Re: C&F Question

Postby gimmieadvice » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:39 pm

blowhard wrote:
gimmieadvice wrote:
stephinmd wrote:Both say they are citations.

And MrKappus, questions are worded as "cited for any violation of criminal law" (Michigan State), "felony, misdemeanor, or criminal offense or violation" (Temple), "charged w//convicted of crime of any kind, including all traffic violations, except parking violations" (WFU), "cited for, arrested for, charged w/ any violations of the law, including traffic violations" (Lewis and Clark), and Marquette asks about moving violations.

When I submitted my apps, I didn't think those stupid speed camera tickets counted, as they don't go on your driving record and your insurance can't go up (ticket specifically says this), but now I'm starting to think I should have disclosed, so I was going to send an addendum to those schools (better safe than sorry), and I didn't disclose the parking ticket, because it wasn't me that parked the car, but now I'm thinking I needed to since it was my car.

yuck :?


That ticket does not fall into the guidelines of that question. Those camera tickets are not traffic violations in that they are not charging you with a section of the relevant states traffic code or criminal law. It merely a way for the DMV to get there hands on more money. Those tickets are written to the registered owner, not neccessarily the driver.


Don't give legal advice. This will vary by state. In some states, they are explicitly traffic violations originating under the traffic code.


Thats BS. It may reference the code but there is no where in the US where it is a charge like an Officer physically giving you a ticket. They can't charge you with out verifying who the "you" is. Which is why its just sent to the registered driver. It is no different then tickets for running EZ Pass in the North East. The ticket reference theft of service but they can't charge you without knowing who the driver is. Hence...its just a civil fine, and that doesn't need to be listed on a law school application either.

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PKSebben
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Re: C&F Question

Postby PKSebben » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:50 pm

gimmieadvice wrote:
blowhard wrote:
gimmieadvice wrote:
stephinmd wrote:Both say they are citations.

And MrKappus, questions are worded as "cited for any violation of criminal law" (Michigan State), "felony, misdemeanor, or criminal offense or violation" (Temple), "charged w//convicted of crime of any kind, including all traffic violations, except parking violations" (WFU), "cited for, arrested for, charged w/ any violations of the law, including traffic violations" (Lewis and Clark), and Marquette asks about moving violations.

When I submitted my apps, I didn't think those stupid speed camera tickets counted, as they don't go on your driving record and your insurance can't go up (ticket specifically says this), but now I'm starting to think I should have disclosed, so I was going to send an addendum to those schools (better safe than sorry), and I didn't disclose the parking ticket, because it wasn't me that parked the car, but now I'm thinking I needed to since it was my car.

yuck :?


That ticket does not fall into the guidelines of that question. Those camera tickets are not traffic violations in that they are not charging you with a section of the relevant states traffic code or criminal law. It merely a way for the DMV to get there hands on more money. Those tickets are written to the registered owner, not neccessarily the driver.


Don't give legal advice. This will vary by state. In some states, they are explicitly traffic violations originating under the traffic code.


Thats BS. It may reference the code but there is no where in the US where it is a charge like an Officer physically giving you a ticket. They can't charge you with out verifying who the "you" is. Which is why its just sent to the registered driver. It is no different then tickets for running EZ Pass in the North East. The ticket reference theft of service but they can't charge you without knowing who the driver is. Hence...its just a civil fine, and that doesn't need to be listed on a law school application either.


First, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm a lawyer. Some states DO treat camera tickets as criminal violations. It's more complicated than you have said. Second, the poster should disclose. Nobody gives a crap about parking/speeding/red light tickets unless there is a SIGNIFICANT pattern. They do care about failing to disclose. Why parse the language of the ticket, the law, and the application for something that nobody cares about.

gimmieadvice
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Re: C&F Question

Postby gimmieadvice » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:10 pm

[/quote]

First, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm a lawyer. Some states DO treat camera tickets as criminal violations. It's more complicated than you have said. Second, the poster should disclose. Nobody gives a crap about parking/speeding/red light tickets unless there is a SIGNIFICANT pattern. They do care about failing to disclose. Why parse the language of the ticket, the law, and the application for something that nobody cares about.[/quote]

Well if noone cares about them so much then I guess there should be no issue in not disclosing then, right? Since no one cares and all. It sounds like you care. Please share with me what state charges individuals with an actual criminal violation thru a camera ticket while having no clue who the driver is......Im ready....

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PKSebben
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Re: C&F Question

Postby PKSebben » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:43 pm

Where did OP say he was not specifically identified by the speeding ticket camera? You manufactured that shit up and it's not the issue. The issue is "can an automated enforcement ticket be a moving violation [or something else I need to disclose on my law application?]" The answer is, naturally, "it depends." In some states, surveillance camera tickets include a photo of the driver. Here's a chart of current photo enforcement laws. http://www.iihs.org/laws/automated_enforcement.aspx

Even in your little hypothetical, it appears owners that are not identified as the driver may still be liable in some cases -- see Illinois' railway crossing section.

In several states, there is no distinction between a regular ticket issued by an officer and an automated enforcement ticket. Since the risk of not disclosing something that is technically within the guidelines far outweighs any negatives (nobody gets dinged on a speeding ticket), OP should disclose.

Also, don't get butthurt that you're wrong and/or don't understand the issue being discussed here.

"Sounds like you care." What are you, five years old?

03121202698008
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Re: C&F Question

Postby 03121202698008 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:45 pm

gimmieadvice wrote:


Well if noone cares about them so much then I guess there should be no issue in not disclosing then, right? Since no one cares and all. It sounds like you care. Please share with me what state charges individuals with an actual criminal violation thru a camera ticket while having no clue who the driver is......Im ready....


They don't care if you disclose. The #1 thing that trips people up when they get to C&F is not disclosing. It's your opinion versus the examiners.

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/auto_enforce.html Notice how many put points on the owner's license...that's a traffic offense. Even some of the ones without points originate under the traffic laws and are therefore traffic offenses. Hell, a few even mandate community service for the owner.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PKSebben
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Re: C&F Question

Postby PKSebben » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:47 pm

pwned.

edit: double Michigan pwnage?

03121202698008
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Re: C&F Question

Postby 03121202698008 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:48 pm

PKSebben wrote:pwned.

edit: double Michigan pwnage?


:lol:




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