JD/Phd

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89vision
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JD/Phd

Postby 89vision » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:25 pm

Anyone know which schools have JD/Phd options (I know some of the Ivies do, but no way I'm getting in)? I know a ton offer dual degrees on the masters level, curious as to how many schools offer joint JD/Phd programs. Thanks.

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby BiglawOrBust » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:14 pm

Depends on what you're looking for.

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SehMeSerrious
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby SehMeSerrious » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:43 pm

BiglawOrBust wrote:Depends on what you're looking for.

Yeah, what PhD are you looking for?

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89vision
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby 89vision » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:41 pm

SehMeSerrious wrote:
BiglawOrBust wrote:Depends on what you're looking for.

Yeah, what PhD are you looking for?


Public policy, IR, American politics. NOrtheastern has a JD/Phd in policy. Is it better to hold off applying to a Phd program until after law school versus a joint program?

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worldtraveler
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:04 am

89vision wrote:
SehMeSerrious wrote:
BiglawOrBust wrote:Depends on what you're looking for.

Yeah, what PhD are you looking for?


Public policy, IR, American politics. NOrtheastern has a JD/Phd in policy. Is it better to hold off applying to a Phd program until after law school versus a joint program?


A lot of the JD/PhD options would be to design your own program. You are best off to contact the programs and ask them if they would allow it. There is generally very little demand for JD/PhD options so a lot of schools do not have them but might not be opposed to letting a student do one.
You also don't have to do them at the same school. Princeton's public policy has agreements with some T10 law schools to do joint degrees. Johns Hopkins and the Fletcher school do the same.

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Opie
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby Opie » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:29 am

89vision wrote:Anyone know which schools have JD/Phd options (I know some of the Ivies do, but no way I'm getting in)? I know a ton offer dual degrees on the masters level, curious as to how many schools offer joint JD/Phd programs. Thanks.


IMO this is because they are only really valuable at the top schools. The only people who need a JD and a PhD in something like policy are usually very high level government people (think chief policy adviser to the President, etc.) and those people all go to at least T30 law schools (GW, W&M) and probably went to the top of the T14.

In other words, most of the jobs where a PhD in Policy or similar would be helpful, a JD from a non-top school would not be helpful.

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89vision
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby 89vision » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:37 pm

Opie wrote:
89vision wrote:Anyone know which schools have JD/Phd options (I know some of the Ivies do, but no way I'm getting in)? I know a ton offer dual degrees on the masters level, curious as to how many schools offer joint JD/Phd programs. Thanks.


IMO this is because they are only really valuable at the top schools. The only people who need a JD and a PhD in something like policy are usually very high level government people (think chief policy adviser to the President, etc.) and those people all go to at least T30 law schools (GW, W&M) and probably went to the top of the T14.

In other words, most of the jobs where a PhD in Policy or similar would be helpful, a JD from a non-top school would not be helpful.


Thanks. I think I misread NEU's program. On the application is says JD/Phd, but on the website, JD/MS, Phd.

I would like to go to a top school for my Phd. I want to go to the best school in my region for law school (top school in the city, top firms love the school). Basically, dishing out for a higher ranked school wouldn't be beneficial considering I want to stay in my hometown.

Will doing well in law school help get into a top Phd program, or will WE be more important?

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Opie
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby Opie » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:59 pm

89vision wrote:
Opie wrote:
89vision wrote:Anyone know which schools have JD/Phd options (I know some of the Ivies do, but no way I'm getting in)? I know a ton offer dual degrees on the masters level, curious as to how many schools offer joint JD/Phd programs. Thanks.


IMO this is because they are only really valuable at the top schools. The only people who need a JD and a PhD in something like policy are usually very high level government people (think chief policy adviser to the President, etc.) and those people all go to at least T30 law schools (GW, W&M) and probably went to the top of the T14.

In other words, most of the jobs where a PhD in Policy or similar would be helpful, a JD from a non-top school would not be helpful.


Thanks. I think I misread NEU's program. On the application is says JD/Phd, but on the website, JD/MS, Phd.

I would like to go to a top school for my Phd. I want to go to the best school in my region for law school (top school in the city, top firms love the school). Basically, dishing out for a higher ranked school wouldn't be beneficial considering I want to stay in my hometown.

Will doing well in law school help get into a top Phd program, or will WE be more important?


My question is this: what are you planning to do with these degrees? Mist law firms will nit like it if you have other options for employment. They want people whose only option is to work at their firm for life.

It would be different if we were talking about a JD from HLS and a PhD from Kennedy, but that's not the case for >99% of applicants.
Last edited by Opie on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:05 pm

89vision wrote:
SehMeSerrious wrote:
BiglawOrBust wrote:Depends on what you're looking for.

Yeah, what PhD are you looking for?


Public policy, IR, American politics. NOrtheastern has a JD/Phd in policy.

Don't be lazy. Narrow down what you're looking for and then go to the schools' websites or even pick up a phone and call them to find out if they offer the degree combo you're looking for. TLS isn't Google.

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89vision
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby 89vision » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:31 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
89vision wrote:
SehMeSerrious wrote:
BiglawOrBust wrote:Depends on what you're looking for.

Yeah, what PhD are you looking for?


Public policy, IR, American politics. NOrtheastern has a JD/Phd in policy.

Don't be lazy. Narrow down what you're looking for and then go to the schools' websites or even pick up a phone and call them to find out if they offer the degree combo you're looking for. TLS isn't Google.


I did search online, like I stated in the original post, I know the top schools offer them. I've looked at the dual degrees at all schools I have applied to. Don't assume because I'm asking here I haven't searched for it online. This is another tool to use.

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89vision
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby 89vision » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:37 pm

Opie wrote:
89vision wrote:
Opie wrote:
89vision wrote:Anyone know which schools have JD/Phd options (I know some of the Ivies do, but no way I'm getting in)? I know a ton offer dual degrees on the masters level, curious as to how many schools offer joint JD/Phd programs. Thanks.


IMO this is because they are only really valuable at the top schools. The only people who need a JD and a PhD in something like policy are usually very high level government people (think chief policy adviser to the President, etc.) and those people all go to at least T30 law schools (GW, W&M) and probably went to the top of the T14.

In other words, most of the jobs where a PhD in Policy or similar would be helpful, a JD from a non-top school would not be helpful.


Thanks. I think I misread NEU's program. On the application is says JD/Phd, but on the website, JD/MS, Phd.

I would like to go to a top school for my Phd. I want to go to the best school in my region for law school (top school in the city, top firms love the school). Basically, dishing out for a higher ranked school wouldn't be beneficial considering I want to stay in my hometown.

Will doing well in law school help get into a top Phd program, or will WE be more important?


My question is this: what are you planning to do with these degrees? Mist law firms will nit like it if you have other options for employment. They want people whose only option is to work at their firm for life.

It would be different if we were talking about a JD from HLS and a PhD from Kennedy, but that's not the case for >99% of applicants.


PI for law, perhaps a non profit. There is a high turnover rate in that field. I want to practice for a couple of years, maybe as a defense attorney, but I'm open to different options. I'm not that interested in corporate or "Biglaw," although the school I want to attend does feed into some solid law firms in the city it's located in. Ideally, I'd like to work for an organization like Legal Aid, Innocence Project, ACLU, etc; Non profit also interests me. My goal is to get the largest scholarship my top school offers, keep debt low, apply for the LRAP program, and pay everything off ASAP, and apply for a paid for + stipend for a Phd. The school in my city offers a 4 yr program+stipend. With the JD I want to stay local, with the Phd I'd aim for DC, try to get a Fulbright or Fellowship and work on the hill, and ultimately be a policy adviser. Yeah, I know the chances aren't that great for it happening, but those are my aspiratations.

With a Phd, I'd love to work at CATO as a researcher, or teach and conduct research.

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Opie
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby Opie » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:06 pm

I'm not sure why you are looking at dual degrees then. I would probably pick one or the other as I think both will get you where you want to go.

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Re: JD/Phd

Postby JDcandidate » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:22 pm

OP mentioned an interest in CATO. My advice would be to avoid going to grad school, especially law school, with the intent of working at a place where ideology informs analysis instead of the inverse. CATO is one of those places whose perspective is fascinating in undergrad when you're reading shit like Fed. 10. IMO, their perspectives on the modern presidency are generally spot on. But their legal analysis for the most part is crap, at least in so far as the amicus briefs they submit are generally off-topic from what the Court is considering. If you really want to work for CATO, and are not considering T14 programs, think about applying to a grad program at George Mason, apply for a Koch fellowship (I think they call it the Institute for Human Studies?), and write a sweet ass libertarian dissertation. My guess is they'd be much more inclined to bring in that kind of person than they would an otherwise random person with a JD/PhD outside of the T14.

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Re: JD/Phd

Postby Opie » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:46 pm

JDcandidate wrote:OP mentioned an interest in CATO. My advice would be to avoid going to grad school, especially law school, with the intent of working at a place where ideology informs analysis instead of the inverse. CATO is one of those places whose perspective is fascinating in undergrad when you're reading shit like Fed. 10. IMO, their perspectives on the modern presidency are generally spot on. But their legal analysis for the most part is crap, at least in so far as the amicus briefs they submit are generally off-topic from what the Court is considering. If you really want to work for CATO, and are not considering T14 programs, think about applying to a grad program at George Mason, apply for a Koch fellowship (I think they call it the Institute for Human Studies?), and write a sweet ass libertarian dissertation. My guess is they'd be much more inclined to bring in that kind of person than they would an otherwise random person with a JD/PhD outside of the T14.

That's a big +1

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89vision
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby 89vision » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:56 pm

I applied for both the Koch and the journalism one already. I was a finalist for the journalism one last summer, and the director contacted me and said I should re apply. I also applied for a CATO internship, and they emailed me stating they are reviewing my application. I plan to campaign in Iowa after Christmas, as a donor is funding my trip. I also am going to volunteer at the ACLU after I graduate in two weeks. I am applying for positions in YAL and Leadership Institute as well. Right now I'm looking to get campaign experience, and hopefully the IHS application turns out favorably.

I want to practice first, then do policy analysis. Maybe be a legal council/on the BoD for a group like SSDP, but that is not likely, which I understand.

I applied to GMU for law school.

The Phd is because I would love to get paid to do research on a drug policy issue, specifically decriminalization, but those policies have been implemented too recently in Mexico and Portugal to do extensive research.

JDcandidate
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Re: JD/Phd

Postby JDcandidate » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:34 pm

Depending on what you're interested in, and assuming you enjoy learning, law school will either be intellectually awesome or emotionally frustrating. Besides the past 100 years of political development that a lot of libertarian policy would have to overcome in order to be implemented, the law (outside of a handful of Con Law cases) is tough to reconcile with a lot of libertarian principles. If you're heart is in academia, and your mind is set on a certain belief system, it might be more beneficial to pursue avenues that solely progress you towards that obviously narrower field. Going to an average law school and finding a mid/small firm job in real estate or something might close you out from pursuing what you really want to get after.

Then again, if you're interested in researching drug policy because it is one of many issues you find intriguing, then the legal education might be what you're looking for. If you're the kind of person whose interest is piqued by a lot of different things, you might really like law school, and eventually - hopefully - practicing in a specific field long term. The thing to keep in the back of your head - and you probably know this - is that public policy a lot of the time is its own creation, and only after the policy is implemented are the laws drawn up (and from time to time challenged).

Both options are a decent gamble - though my guess is that you'd have more luck finding a law job than finding a public policy one, especially if you're intending to use your employment to pay off grad school debt. Don't do the dual degree unless it's a stellar program though. A dual degree's tuition benefits the school 10x more than it benefits the recipient.




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