Canadian Law Schools - Placement in the US? Employment? Forum

[justnicholas]

I am currently apply to T30-15 schools, but I was really curious about Canadian law schools specifically University of Toronto and University of British Columbia.

If you get a law degree in Canada, how easy is it to gain citizenship? On the TLS page it says that Toronto places fairly well in Boston and New York because you can take the bar there.

What extra requirements would a state like Colorado, California, or Washington take besides the JD?

What are employment prospects like out of these two schools and how portable are they?

I might have missed the Toronto deadline I think it might have been November 1st, not sure, but I am curious because I wouldn't mind living in Canada.

[kl10qm]

As a Canadian-American myself, I also was having the same thoughts...why not just go to a Canadian school (its much cheaper). But I decided to stay in the good ol' U.S. of A.

Per Canadian immigration, citizenship is very very difficult to gain. Canada has a points based system that ranks how "useful" you would be to their society, and with the recent tightening of family class immigration regulations, I can only imagine that work-based immigration regulars will also be tightened. That being said, some Provinces (as well as the federal government) do have programs for graduates of Canadian universities, and if I recall you are given a work permit for about two or so years, then you can apply for a PR card...then after you get that, you have five years till you can apply for citizenship.

Canadian JD's do have some portability in the U.S., but it is very limited. Massachusetts and New York - as you said, do allow you to practice, but other states like Washington and California, have other regulations that you must meet. Per California, I believe that you have to have taken the Bar in another State that allows you to do so before you are allowed to practice there. Most other states will not allow one to practice with a Canadian J.D. at all (Georgia is brought to mind here).

Per Toronto, you have all the portability in the world - errr...at least in Canada. It has by far the best program, and Bay St. firms scoop up Toronto (as well as York) grads like nobody's business. UBC I am not as familiar with - I lived in Ontario after all - but I hear that they have much better placements in the West than most of the other schools besides UAlberta. But that is just hearsay from the lawyers and friends of mine that I have talked with about this.

As per the deadline, yes, November 1 was the last day that OLSAS accepted applications, though Toronto does allow one to request a late application if you have extenuating circumstances...you just have to send in your information (transcripts, LSAT score, etc).

Hope that helps...but Canada truly is great! Awesome people, awesome country, and (at least with Toronto) awesome city life.

[buns]

I can only speak about U of T but the portability within Canada is second to none. As for US employment, I personally didn't participate in US OCIs but the following firms came up north this year according to our symplicity:

All are NY offices unless specified otherwise:
Freshfields
Cravath
Paul Weiss
Proskauer
Shearman & Sterling
Skadden
SullCrom
Weil
White & Case

The following did a resume collect:
Cleary
DPW
Latham (San Diego)
Milbank Tweed
Sidley

It flucuates year to year. I know some people ahead of me in years that either summered or are now working at some other NY firms that aren't on this year's list.

[justnicholas]

Does anyone else have any more information on Canadian schools?

[CanadianWolf]

Are you a citizen of the US ? If so, focus on attending a US law school unless you are certain that you want to live in Canada. Toronto is the only Canadian law school that you should consider if considering living & working in the US after law school. Toronto's international tuition, however, equals US law school tuition rates.

NYU has a joint degree program with York University's Osgoode Hall. Most consider Osgoode Hall to be the second best Canadian law school. This four year law school program results in earning both US & Canadian law degrees. (UBC has a similiar joint degree program with Hawaii.)

Enjoy lawstudents.ca

[viacavour]

I'm Canadian- American and was initially going to apply to Canadian schools but ultimately decided against it for several reasons

a) deadlines have already passed, Nov. 15th for U of T
b) aside from U of T, a Canadian law degree means staying in Canada.
c) the entire Canadian system is smaller, this means there are less school total and less elite schools. I have interned for 3 summers at law firms in Toronto and everyone in the legal community agrees that anything other than U of T is basically the same for elite-ness and job prospects.

What does this mean? If you can't get in to U of T and its HARD to get in, there is no difference between going to UBC (a very respected institution) and UWindsor (a joke of a school) in terms of job prospects. McGill is a little bit of a different story since you get a common and civil law degree which means you could practice in Europe if you wanted.

If my cycle doesn't go well I will apply to U of T next year but as far as I am concerned, it is the only Canadian school even worth considering if your plan is to move back to the US.

If you have more questions about Canadian schools and are seriously considering moving to Canada feel free to PM me.

[viacavour]

Also you say you're applying to T30-15 schools. I'm not sure what your stats are but be aware that Toronto is not easy to get into.

Their LSAT median is a 165 and median GPA is a 3.8. They don't accept LORs which means their process is even more numbers driven than in the US. They accept less than 200 students a year and can be notoriously picky.

[CanadianWolf]

Do McGill students earn both common law & civil law degrees ? Or do they have to elect one program or the other like at Ottawa ?

P.S. Windsor is the bottom law school in Canada. Toronto is the most prestigious, then Osgoode Hall & McGill, then the rest except for Windsor which is at the bottom of the common-law law schools in Canada.
For employment prospects outside of Canada, only consider Toronto or McGill.

[viacavour]

Yes you earn both civil and common law at McGill. All the readings for the civil law classes are in French, although class is taught in English so you must be somewhat bilingual to attend. I believe you have to take a language exam for admission but I'm not sure.

[CanadianWolf]

An exam demonstrating fluency or proficiency in written French is required, if I remember correctly. Or, at the very least, evidence of proficiency in written French.

[buns]

Just a couple points -- I'm not a 100% sure but I heard from a friend at Oz that the Oz/NYU joint degree program got discontinued.

U of T's median LSAT is 168, and median undergraduate gpa in 4.0 scale terms is ~3.9 but this is only based on your best 3 years of full-time UG studies.

[KingsBench]

An exam demonstrating fluency or proficiency in written French is required, if I remember correctly. Or, at the very least, evidence of proficiency in written French.

Not quite. McGill's B.C.L./L.LL (such an interesting acronym for a common law degree, btw...) operates under a policy of passive bilingualism. As a result, applicants must necessarily be able to comprehend material in both languages (written and oral). Applicants as a result may be subject to a French-language oral interview to gauge proficiency.

However, as with other schools with a similar policy (the University of Ottawa comes to mind), all students have the right to write exams in English or in French. Keep in mind that some of the judgments on exams (from QC or the SC) may be judgments written in French - as long as you can understand the gist of the passage, you can get by without writing in French. That being said, if you want to maximize the use of your civil law degree, at least in Canada, it's definitely in your best interest to work on your written skills!