Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
Opie
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:27 pm

Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:02 am

--LinkRemoved--

This article was on the front page of the Des Moines Register on Thursday. Most of it is nothing new to us, but I did find it interesting that the University of Iowa is seeing an increase in applications when mist others are seeing applications fall. It got me thinking: is there an application "sweet spot" where the school is still attainable, but has some sort of job prospects? Are there a significant number of applicants who would normally apply to schools in the mid to lower T100 that are making the decision to apply to schools in regions they wouldn't normally consider just to get better ranking?

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:44 am

Opie wrote:It got me thinking: is there an application "sweet spot" where the school is still attainable, but has some sort of job prospects?


I read this several times, but I am not sure I understand what you mean. Are you asking if there are easy schools to get into that offer good job prospects? There are so many subjective interpretations as to what "easy" and "good" would mean.

I would say that most of the T50 is generally worth about $70-$80K worth of debt, with maybe 3 exceptions. Many schools in this group offer at least modest job prospects, even in a poor economy - and $70-80K is a reasonable price to pay for those prospects. I realize that this though is not exactly on point as to what you were asking, but what you were asking doesn't really make sense to me.

However, it should be obvious that some schools in the T50 are easier to get into than others, and maybe that should answer your question.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:47 am

Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT

User avatar
Opie
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:52 am

Sorry, what I mean is this: are people who would normally apply to lower ranked East coast schools like Cardozo/Rutgers/etc. applying to Midwest schools in the lower T30 because they think their job prospects will be better with the increased rank?
Last edited by Opie on Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Opie
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:54 am

Bildungsroman wrote:Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT


I think that's more related to our board of regents in Iowa. You also have to fill out an application for a fee waiver when they send it to you through CRS.

Edit: stupid autocorrect
Last edited by Opie on Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tennisking88
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:15 am

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby tennisking88 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:55 am

Opie wrote:Sorry, what I mean is this: are people who would normally apply to lower ranked East coast schools like Cardozo/Rutgers/etc. applying to Midwest schools in the lower T30 because they think their job prospects will be better with the in readers rank?


I think that's right. I think the fact that they're ranked 27 is very attractive to people who have no idea that rank <<<< geography when choosing a law school outside the t14.

User avatar
Opie
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:01 pm

tennisking88 wrote:
Opie wrote:Sorry, what I mean is this: are people who would normally apply to lower ranked East coast schools like Cardozo/Rutgers/etc. applying to Midwest schools in the lower T30 because they think their job prospects will be better with the in readers rank?


I think that's right. I think the fact that they're ranked 27 is very attractive to people who have no idea that rank <<<< geography when choosing a law school outside the t14.


That's more what I was thinking. Iowa isn't a bad school, but if you live on the East Coast and want NYC biglaw, you have basically zero chance at it with Iowa unless you have a parent that is a hiring partner or something.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:04 pm

Opie wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT


I think that's more related to our board of regents in Iowa. You also have to gill out an application for a fee waiver when they send it to you through CRS.

So it's the fault of the BoR that Iowa is a TTT? That's a shame.

Also, Iowa only placed 12.18% of its class in NLJ 250 jobs last year, so hopefully nobody's being dumb enough to apply to schools like Iowa they wouldn't normally consider just because of the USNews rank.

User avatar
MTal
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby MTal » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:13 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT


Dude, don't you get tired of being completely ignored by virtually all the other posters?

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:15 pm

MTal wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT


Dude, don't you get tired of being completely ignored by virtually all the other posters?

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

User avatar
ThreeRivers
Posts: 1142
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:16 pm

Yes, I actually saw Iowa rank and debated applying for a second then realized it is in Iowa lol

User avatar
top30man
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby top30man » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:27 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
Opie wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT


I think that's more related to our board of regents in Iowa. You also have to gill out an application for a fee waiver when they send it to you through CRS.

So it's the fault of the BoR that Iowa is a TTT? That's a shame.

Also, Iowa only placed 12.18% of its class in NLJ 250 jobs last year, so hopefully nobody's being dumb enough to apply to schools like Iowa they wouldn't normally consider just because of the USNews rank.

Agreed. While it is a great school for Iowa, it does not have the same clout as some similarly ranked schools (BC/BU/etc).

User avatar
Opie
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:34 pm

ThreeRivers wrote:Yes, I actually saw Iowa rank and debated applying for a second then realized it is in Iowa lol


Iowa is a great place to live and go to school, but if you're counting on taking that degree back to the East coast, probably not a good idea.

I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se. Its not good when schools give scholarships with stipulations to 75% of the class knowing that 60% of those people won't be in the top third, but I don't see that at Iowa.

Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:39 pm

Opie wrote:I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.

User avatar
Opie
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
Opie wrote:I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.


I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

User avatar
soj
Posts: 7735
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:10 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby soj » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:47 pm

Opie wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
Opie wrote:I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.


I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

Obviously a scholarship with a stip is better than no scholarship at all, but don't for a second think a $90K scholarship with stip at Iowa is actually worth $90K. You need to weigh that against the realistic risk of losing the scholarship in 2L-3L. Depending on your risk aversion, a $60K scholarship without stip could be worth more to you than a $90K scholarship with stip.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Grizz » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:48 pm

Opie wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
Opie wrote:I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.


I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

They're betting against you. There's a better chance you will fail than succeed.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Grizz » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:49 pm

Opie wrote:
Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

I bet you eat your words come OCI.

User avatar
omninode
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:09 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby omninode » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:50 pm

Opie wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
Opie wrote:I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.


I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.


I guess it's a half empty/half full thing. Personally, I wouldn't take the risk.

User avatar
bjsesq
TLS Poet Laureate
Posts: 13383
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:02 am

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby bjsesq » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:52 pm

Opie wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
Opie wrote:I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.


I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.


LOL

I would have gone to Iowa if they had removed that stipulation. It's a way for them to weasel out of a commitment they made to you. Your end of the deal was to attend school there. That's it. That's all it should be.

User avatar
Opie
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Grizz wrote:
Opie wrote:
Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

I bet you eat your words come OCI.


Maybe, but I doubt it. I plan to live in Des Moines after law school, and AFAIK there aren't any NLJ250 firms in Iowa. I also don't think I need $160k a year to live. I'd be really happy with half of that.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby IAFG » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:57 pm

Opie wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Opie wrote:
Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

I bet you eat your words come OCI.


Maybe, but I doubt it. I plan to live in Des Moines after law school, and AFAIK there aren't any NLJ250 firms in Iowa. I also don't think I need $160k a year to live. I'd be really happy with half of that.

It's really hard for me to imagine only betting on one tiny market. Living in Minneapolis/Chicago/Omaha/Milwaukee with a legal job >>> cashiering at Hy-Vee in Des Moines.

User avatar
Opie
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby Opie » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:07 pm

IAFG wrote:
Opie wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Opie wrote:
Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

I bet you eat your words come OCI.


Maybe, but I doubt it. I plan to live in Des Moines after law school, and AFAIK there aren't any NLJ250 firms in Iowa. I also don't think I need $160k a year to live. I'd be really happy with half of that.

It's really hard for me to imagine only betting on one tiny market. Living in Minneapolis/Chicago/Omaha/Milwaukee with a legal job >>> cashiering at Hy-Vee in Des Moines.


While that would be true for most K-JDs, I already have a better job than that in insurance and have good prospects for legal work at my company. If I decide to go for a firm job, my top pick would be Nyemaster Goode. I recognize that my situation isn't typical though. Some of my UG debt is paid already and I owe <100k on my home. I can afford to go smaller than most people here.

User avatar
minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby minnbills » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:12 pm

Opie wrote:While that would be true for most K-JDs, I already have a better job than that in insurance and have good prospects for legal work at my company. If I decide to go for a firm job, my top pick would be Nyemaster Goode. I recognize that my situation isn't typical though. Some of my UG debt is paid already and I owe <100k on my home. I can afford to go smaller than most people here.


Do you have some kind of connection at this firm? Your options (and whether or not you have them in the first place) will be largely dependent on your grades.

I would love to go work for Doresy in Minneapolis, but if I go to UMN and am outside the top 15% or so they won't give me the time of day, let alone an interview, no matter how badly I want to go there.

If you lose your scholly, not only will law school become a much more expensive 3 years, you may not even be competitive for jobs in private practice. That they're putting stips on their schollys implies that they are ok with a chunk of their incoming student body being basically screwed over, which doesn't reflect well on the school at all.

User avatar
JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere.

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:13 pm

Grizz wrote:
Opie wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
Opie wrote:I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.


I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

They're betting against you. There's a better chance you will fail than succeed.

and a lot of schools rig the class so that all the scholly kids are in the same section




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 01panm, Commoncourtesy, MSNbot Media, Wipfelder and 4 guests