a foreign guy need advise from you

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009811
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a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby 009811 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:23 pm

Hi,

I am a foreign student in a deep south public school. I have question of my chance to get into school. I need some advice.

I am will graduate next May. I got LSAT 160+, and GPA 3.4 (current GPA, may be a little higher at graduation). My family pay all my tuition. Now, I applied some fourth-tier school and some second-tier . Two of fourth tier school promise full-ride if I submit the application right now. Third-tier school say they may award partial scholarship depend on the incoming class and budget. Second-tier school say that they may award me scholarship or not, but I can get an admission.

Right now, My family can support $50, 000 for my graduate study. I do not want to spend all my parents whole life savings. So, tuition is top issue for me. Also, I am a foreign citizen, I cannot get a loan from any private lender. (It need a U.S citizen to be a co-signer for loan, but I cannot find someone to be a co-signer here). So I have to rely on the scholarship.

I want know that If I get into this fourth-tier school for 1L, could I transfer out at the end of 1L to a second-tier or third tier school? (Well, I am not sure that the % should I get in the class to be competitive to get a full-ride from a second/third tier school?) Is that a higher possiblity to get a transfer full-ride? Many posters say that law school grades are very unpredictable, I do not know that I can get a excellent grade even in a fourth tier school. Some school use full-ride to recruit students in and take over the scholarship at the end of 1L using the tough curve grade policies. Is that a big possiblity that some fourth-tier law school use this trick to take over the aid at the end of 1L?

Also, is there any second tier or third tier school offer full-ride for transfer student? It usually very hard for transfer student or 2L/3L student get scholarship for their current student. Many scholarship are for recruiting purpose , they may not award for transfer student. For new student, it may be harder and harder.

At the end, I am still not sure that what is the "difference" between fourth-tier and second-tier law school in the academic and class? Could I consider that fourth tier school class is easier than second/third tier school? The test or exam may be easier in the class? Or fouth tier and second/third tier is the same?

Well, I welcome some advices from other guys, such as other choices of go to work directly after college or get a business school degree. Any advices are welcome.

Thank you guys,

George
Last edited by 009811 on Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

bdubs
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby bdubs » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:36 pm

No.

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:55 pm

Don't go to any law school outside the top 14!

It's extremely difficult for Americans to get good jobs from schools outside of the top 14. It would be even harder for you, since: (a) government jobs would be unavailable to you; (b) employers would have to pay and complete the paperwork for a work visa; and (c) you only have a short period of time after graduation to get a job in the US before your student visa expires. Also, if you have an accent or any imperfections in your written English, that would be a serious problem for potential employers.

It is extremely hard to transfer from a lower tier school - almost everyone wants to do it, but only a few succeed. Don't go to a lower tier school to transfer.

In short: RETAKE the LSAT. You need 170+.

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cinephile
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby cinephile » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:10 pm

I think it's a bit unreasonable to say no school outside the top 14 is worth it, particularly since now that I'm in school I haven't heard anyone use that term, it's always top 10.

Anyway, there's no real difference between 3rd and 4th tier schools. Transfer students don't get scholarships and it's difficult to transfer in the first place. You say you're in the deep south, want to stay there? Could you get into a lower ranked, cheap state school like ole miss? Would they consider youfor instate tuition if you're living there now? I feel like you need to offer more information about your circumstances and what you want.

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:25 pm

cinephile wrote:I think it's a bit unreasonable to say no school outside the top 14 is worth it, particularly since now that I'm in school I haven't heard anyone use that term, it's always top 10.

I only claim that they're not worth it for the OP - because he is foreign, and will be in a more difficult situation than the average American. And while I agree that a few schools outside the t14 might be worth it, I think we should keep the message simple here.

I've looked in to a couple of schools in the South for my own purposes, and they both restrict in-state tuition to citizens and permanent residents, so I suspect that's not going to help.

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cinephile
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby cinephile » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:42 pm

That's fair. Sorry, sometimes the T14 or bust thing gets on my nerves. For the OP I hadn't realized he could be considered for in-state if not a permanent resident.

bdubs
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby bdubs » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:00 pm

cinephile wrote:I think it's a bit unreasonable to say no school outside the top 14 is worth it, particularly since now that I'm in school I haven't heard anyone use that term, it's always top 10.


T14 still means schools that were in the USNews T10 at one point in its history. Sorry to all of those that though UT was a T14.

It doesn't matter because OPs plan is a terrible idea. Schools don't give transfers full ride scholarships.

shock259
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby shock259 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:52 am

There's a transfers forum. It's undisputed that transfers do NOT get any money. Ever.

Also: you should never attend a school with the intent of transferring. Your first year grades are almost the sole basis for your transfer application, and you simply cannot rely on where you will end up. You may think you will work extra hard or whatever, but almost everyone works hard. It's too much of a toss up.

Also x2: Not to be a dick, but I think you will have language barrier problems if you go down this road, given that you have a large number of errors in your post. You will have a harder time in school and an extremely difficult time once you get out if you do not have mastery of English.

Also x3: Please don't spend all of your parent's money on something like law school. There are more reliable trades that: 1) don't cost so much, 2) won't put you at such a disadvantage.

EMZE
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby EMZE » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:56 am

George,

Unless I missed it, I don't see anywhere what it is you are hoping to do with a law degree. Will you try and become a citizen and practice in the US? Or will you return back to wherever you are from? (Where are you from)

That is the most important thing you should try and figure out first. From what I have seen in some countries, U.S. degrees are very highly regarded regardless of where they are from, though law might be something with a bit more specificty than a business degree, and may consequently preclude you from actually being a lawyer.

Otherwise, a business degree would be a great option. There are many many more business school opportunities out there much cheaper than law school.

Ignore the whole T-14 or don't go sentiment that you may find on this site. While that would be more relevant if your goal was simply to make as much money and avoid as much risk as possible, if you actually have altruistic goals there are other options.

009811
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby 009811 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:26 am

EMZE wrote:George,

Unless I missed it, I don't see anywhere what it is you are hoping to do with a law degree. Will you try and become a citizen and practice in the US? Or will you return back to wherever you are from? (Where are you from)

That is the most important thing you should try and figure out first. From what I have seen in some countries, U.S. degrees are very highly regarded regardless of where they are from, though law might be something with a bit more specificty than a business degree, and may consequently preclude you from actually being a lawyer.

Otherwise, a business degree would be a great option. There are many many more business school opportunities out there much cheaper than law school.

Ignore the whole T-14 or don't go sentiment that you may find on this site. While that would be more relevant if your goal was simply to make as much money and avoid as much risk as possible, if you actually have altruistic goals there are other options.



EMZE, Thank you for your reply.

I do not want to pratice law in the US. Also, I have no intention to any T-14 school, I believe that it is unattainable goal for me. So I eye on second or third tier school. Actually, Law degree will only help me if I want to open my own business or help me get a government job if I go back to my home. (China).

So, will you believe that some third tier school like Stetson (Tampa, FL) or Ole Miss is worth to go?

Thanks.

009811
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby 009811 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:30 am

shock259 wrote:There's a transfers forum. It's undisputed that transfers do NOT get any money. Ever.

Also: you should never attend a school with the intent of transferring. Your first year grades are almost the sole basis for your transfer application, and you simply cannot rely on where you will end up. You may think you will work extra hard or whatever, but almost everyone works hard. It's too much of a toss up.

Also x2: Not to be a dick, but I think you will have language barrier problems if you go down this road, given that you have a large number of errors in your post. You will have a harder time in school and an extremely difficult time once you get out if you do not have mastery of English.

Also x3: Please don't spend all of your parent's money on something like law school. There are more reliable trades that: 1) don't cost so much, 2) won't put you at such a disadvantage.


Shock259, Thank you for your advice. I agree that your all your ideas. I do not want to pratice in the US, because I have never consider to work in US. The law school degree is only help me get a government job if I go back to home or get a International Law job in my home (China).

EMZE
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby EMZE » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:16 pm

009811 wrote:
EMZE, Thank you for your reply.

I do not want to pratice law in the US. Also, I have no intention to any T-14 school, I believe that it is unattainable goal for me. So I eye on second or third tier school. Actually, Law degree will only help me if I want to open my own business or help me get a government job if I go back to my home. (China).

So, will you believe that some third tier school like Stetson (Tampa, FL) or Ole Miss is worth to go?

Thanks.


Okay, this adds a lot of perspective and makes a great deal of difference. Based on your background and your numbers, you can do much better than third tier. Are you looking to apply for admission next fall? If so, you will really need to start pulling your applications together. However, what I really think you need to research is how well a degree from the U.S. will work for you in China. There are some drastic fundamental differences in the way our countries work. Do you know of anyone who studied law in the U.S. and sucessfully found legal employment in China?

Your situation is interesting to me personally, since my wife is fluent in Chinese (she isn't Chinese nor does she have any ethnic ties to asia) and actually wrote her master's thesis about China's international influence, so I think between the three of us we can probably set you on a good course.

The only real concern I have though is that, based on reading your posts, it seems like you may struggle a little bit with written English. I am sure you are perfectly fluent, but law especially requires a strong command of the English language. You obviously did well enough in your undergrad, but if I were you I would seriously try to do some reading on legal materials, stuff you can find on the internet like supreme court cases and the judges opinions. It can be very dense, and it would be better to figure out now if law is truly feasible.

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KMaine
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby KMaine » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:21 pm

Twelve posts in and nobody has mentioned that this is the most obvious flame in the history of TLS.

EMZE
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Re: a foreign guy need advise from you

Postby EMZE » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:29 pm

KMaine wrote:Twelve posts in and nobody has mentioned that this is the most obvious flame in the history of TLS.

... really?


I feel so foolish. Thats where altruism gets you.




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