When does law school become worth it?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

When is it worth it?

HYS only!
16
8%
T6 with a scholarship.
9
4%
T6 without a scholarship.
16
8%
Upper/Mid T14 with a scholarship.
13
6%
Upper/Mid T14 without a scholarship.
13
6%
Lower T14 with a scholarship.
28
14%
Lower T14 without a scholarship.
35
17%
Tier 1 with a scholarship.
56
27%
Tier 1 without a scholarship.
21
10%
 
Total votes: 207

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ColtsFan88
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby ColtsFan88 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:36 pm

EMZE wrote:bk1, are you a law school student? I ask because given your opinions, I don't understand why it is you would attend/pursue law school. If you are in attendance, or plan on it, what makes it worthwhile for you?


I know, right? If I was so sure of my leet wiki-skills no fucking way would I waste 3 years and thousands of dollars on school. Id teach myself that Shit.

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:39 pm

chimp wrote:I wouldn't pay sticker at American because it's ranked below schools like Cooley. American just doesn't have a big enough library for me.


THIS!

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Grizz
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby Grizz » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:40 pm

ColtsFan88 wrote:
EMZE wrote:bk1, are you a law school student? I ask because given your opinions, I don't understand why it is you would attend/pursue law school. If you are in attendance, or plan on it, what makes it worthwhile for you?


I know, right? If I was so sure of my leet wiki-skills no fucking way would I waste 3 years and thousands of dollars on school. Id teach myself that Shit.

Whelp in most states you need to go to lawl school to sit of the bar even though you can just pass the bar from a barbri course.

EMZE
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby EMZE » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:52 pm

I'm really just trying to take this thread in a positive direction if nothing else. The answer to that question may really have some value to add for those who are wondering if it is actually worth it. While I am personally at peace with my decision, I can apprecaite others contradictory perspectives.

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:56 pm

happyshapy wrote:
IAFG wrote:
happyshapy wrote: So what if you only net 35,300 for the first 7 years?

He's not even saying anyone will actually net that though... either you'll do considerably better than that, or you'll find something other than biglaw/market paying non-biglaw.


Either way if he's thinking about law school in these kinds of terms, then don't go to law school. Oh it's not worth it because I only have a 50% chance at a t14 to net more then $40,000 a year? Yeah right. Some people actually want to go to law school because they want to be lawyers. Obviously don't go taking out 200k in loans at a TTTT in a place you have no ties and would never want to practice. But there's no reason to claim that law school outside of HYS isn't worth it just because you have less then a 50% chance of netting $40,000 after you factor in loans and expenses.

It's the same thing with medical school. Do you know how much money it costs to go to med school? Way much more then law school. The hours are insane and the pay at first is shitty. Med school is only worth it after at least 10 years after you factor in loans. But if you want something badly enough, and you put in the time and hard work it will be worth it. If you think a 160k should just fall out of the sky for you just because you went to three years of law school, then you're really just lazy.


I agree with this. I'm from RI, Roger Williams is technically TTT but it's the only law school in RI. If you want to live and practice in RI, going to Roger Williams is a safe bet. I know a lot of people that have gone there and are successful by RI terms. Also, same goes for Suffolk in Boston. Most of the Harvard grads end up going out of Boston to NY, DC, CA leaving the Boston market open to BU, BC, NE and Suffolk grads. Suffolk has a pretty solid reputation in Boston and if you want to practice in Boston, going there isn't a bad idea.

However, I would never recommend that someone go to some TTT in South Dakota planning on practicing in NY after Law School.

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:01 pm

EMZE wrote:
bk1 wrote:
EMZE wrote:Do you really see no value in pursuing a world class education from some of the schools you are rallying against?

What world class education are you talking about? You mean the one that I can get from the library/Wikipedia/internet/etc without spending $200,000+ and 3 years of my life?

EMZE wrote:if you cannot find a job out of a T14, it's not the school or the market, its probably the person.

Agreed. But if you can't find a job that can repay sticker price debt? Eh, not so much.


Yes, I've seen good will hunting. And I wish you the best of luck in your aspirations to be successful after spending 3 years surfing wikipedia. You're right, Harvard is not a world class institution. Wikipedia is. And employers cowtow to UoWiki.

It does not make sense to me at all that you would be so risk adverse to not go to an awesome school because of the possibility of spending some time unemployed and in debt. That risk is not unique to law.


Are you kidding me? All these people would cream at the chance to attend Harvard at sticker. The only reason they're on here is because they want less people to compete with them. I'm convinced of this.

The other alternative - they're socially awkward individuals that get a kick out of trolling websites like TLS and then that's even more sad. So don't feed the trolls!

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bk1
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby bk1 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:03 pm

EMZE wrote:bk1, are you a law school student? I ask because given your opinions, I don't understand why it is you would attend/pursue law school. If you are in attendance, or plan on it, what makes it worthwhile for you?


I like coinflips.

Grizz wrote:Whelp in most states you need to go to lawl school to sit of the bar even though you can just pass the bar from a barbri course.


And this.

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bk1
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby bk1 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:04 pm

JoeMo wrote:If you want to live and practice in RI, going to Roger Williams is a safe bet.


Oh? I've never heard anybody refer to a 50% chance at getting a full time legal job as "safe."

Source: --LinkRemoved--

JoeMo wrote:The only reason they're on here is because they want less people to compete with them. I'm convinced of this.


Less people to compete with in what regard?

Applications? That doesn't make any sense since people with 170+ LSATs don't have to compete with people who have 160- LSATs.
Jobs? That doesn't make any sense either since people at top schools don't compete with anybody at TT/TTT/TTTT schools.

I am at loss with how you could logically come to this conclusion in any way, shape, or form.
Last edited by bk1 on Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gaud
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby gaud » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:07 pm

bk1 wrote:
JoeMo wrote:If you want to live and practice in RI, going to Roger Williams is a safe bet.


Oh? I've never heard anybody refer to a 50% chance at getting a full time legal job as "safe."

Source: --LinkRemoved--



It's all about the 'coinflips' :lol:

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bk1
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby bk1 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:08 pm

gaud wrote:
bk1 wrote:
JoeMo wrote:If you want to live and practice in RI, going to Roger Williams is a safe bet.


Oh? I've never heard anybody refer to a 50% chance at getting a full time legal job as "safe."

Source: --LinkRemoved--



It's all about the 'coinflips' :lol:


I tip my hat to you good sir.

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gaud
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby gaud » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:09 pm

bk1 wrote:
gaud wrote:
bk1 wrote:
JoeMo wrote:If you want to live and practice in RI, going to Roger Williams is a safe bet.


Oh? I've never heard anybody refer to a 50% chance at getting a full time legal job as "safe."

Source: --LinkRemoved--



It's all about the 'coinflips' :lol:


I tip my hat to you good sir.



and mine to you

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:14 pm

bk1 wrote:
JoeMo wrote:If you want to live and practice in RI, going to Roger Williams is a safe bet.


Oh? I've never heard anybody refer to a 50% chance at getting a full time legal job as "safe."

Source: --LinkRemoved--

JoeMo wrote:The only reason they're on here is because they want less people to compete with them. I'm convinced of this.


Less people to compete with in what regard?

Applications? That doesn't make any sense since people with 170+ LSATs don't have to compete with people who have 160- LSATs.
Jobs? That doesn't make any sense either since people at top schools don't compete with anybody at TT/TTT/TTTT schools.

I am at loss with how you could logically come to this conclusion in any way, shape, or form.


I didn't say that you were looking to have less competition from the 160's. What I am saying is that people like you look to deter all sorts of individuals from attending law school, even those with the 170's that would get into some awesome law schools. That's what you're doing on here right? If not, then what's the point of all this crap you're spewing? The majority of people on TLS seem to be pretty well aware of employment prospects. If they still want to pursue a legal career then let them.

As for Roger Williams, graduates of Roger Williams have better employment prospects than the people of Rhode Island in general. Rhode Island has one of the weakest economies in the country at the moment. So I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with your chart? If you want to live and practice in Rhode Island then going to Roger Williams will be your best bet. Since it's the only law school in the state and all.

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:15 pm

This thread is officially a troll thread now. Same as all the other "warning to 0L" threads. Checking out.

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Grizz
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby Grizz » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:33 pm

JoeMo wrote:
As for Roger Williams, graduates of Roger Williams have better employment prospects than the people of Rhode Island in general. Rhode Island has one of the weakest economies in the country at the moment. So I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with your chart? If you want to live and practice in Rhode Island then going to Roger Williams will be your best bet. Since it's the only law school in the state and all.


Going to a T14 or BC/BU and having RI ties is probably your best bet duder.

bk1 wrote:
JoeMo wrote:If you want to live and practice in RI, going to Roger Williams is a safe bet.


Oh? I've never heard anybody refer to a 50% chance at getting a full time legal job as "safe."

Source: --LinkRemoved--


Also relevant

http://www.ripoffreport.com/colleges-and-universities/roger-williams-schoo/roger-williams-school-of-law-s-9wd82.htm

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:38 pm

Grizz - Of course, I never said you should go to Roger Williams OVER going T14 or even to BU or BC or even UConn. All of those are recognized regionally as being solid schools and are much better institutions than Roger Williams. I am a firm believer in that you should go to to the best school that you can go to, closest to the area that you intend to practice in.

I was simply speaking to the conversation that transpired earlier in this thread about it never being wise to pursue anything lower than T14 and that's simply not the case. It's not that black and white 100% of the time.

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:44 pm

and that link is coming from someone that doesn't understand the law school curve and didn't think to ask the school what their curve was before they enrolled. Hell, it sounds like they flunked out and still never bothered to find out what the curve was nor what the GPA requirement was to stay enrolled.

I know the quality of the individuals in Rhode Island and I can tell you that I would take this ripoff report with a grain of salt.

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Grizz
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby Grizz » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:45 pm

JoeMo wrote:Grizz - Of course, I never said you should go to Roger Williams OVER going T14 or even to BU or BC or even UConn. All of those are recognized regionally as being solid schools and are much better institutions than Roger Williams. I am a firm believer in that you should go to to the best school that you can go to, closest to the area that you intend to practice in.

I was simply speaking to the conversation that transpired earlier in this thread about it never being wise to pursue anything lower than T14 and that's simply not the case. It's not that black and white 100% of the time.

The difference is I would never attend Roger Williams, under any circumstances, for any amount of money. Not even a good shot at being a lawyer.

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:02 pm

Grizz wrote:
JoeMo wrote:Grizz - Of course, I never said you should go to Roger Williams OVER going T14 or even to BU or BC or even UConn. All of those are recognized regionally as being solid schools and are much better institutions than Roger Williams. I am a firm believer in that you should go to to the best school that you can go to, closest to the area that you intend to practice in.

I was simply speaking to the conversation that transpired earlier in this thread about it never being wise to pursue anything lower than T14 and that's simply not the case. It's not that black and white 100% of the time.

The difference is I would never attend Roger Williams, under any circumstances, for any amount of money. Not even a good shot at being a lawyer.


You, great. Me, probably not either. But to some people in RI that's the best they can do, and to them I say, go for it.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:03 pm

JoeMo wrote:
Grizz wrote:
JoeMo wrote:Grizz - Of course, I never said you should go to Roger Williams OVER going T14 or even to BU or BC or even UConn. All of those are recognized regionally as being solid schools and are much better institutions than Roger Williams. I am a firm believer in that you should go to to the best school that you can go to, closest to the area that you intend to practice in.

I was simply speaking to the conversation that transpired earlier in this thread about it never being wise to pursue anything lower than T14 and that's simply not the case. It's not that black and white 100% of the time.

The difference is I would never attend Roger Williams, under any circumstances, for any amount of money. Not even a good shot at being a lawyer.


You, great. Me, probably not either. But to some people in RI that's the best they can do, and to them I say, go for it.

To them I say, not everyone was meant to be a lawyer.

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Grizz
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby Grizz » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:09 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
JoeMo wrote:
Grizz wrote:
JoeMo wrote:Grizz - Of course, I never said you should go to Roger Williams OVER going T14 or even to BU or BC or even UConn. All of those are recognized regionally as being solid schools and are much better institutions than Roger Williams. I am a firm believer in that you should go to to the best school that you can go to, closest to the area that you intend to practice in.

I was simply speaking to the conversation that transpired earlier in this thread about it never being wise to pursue anything lower than T14 and that's simply not the case. It's not that black and white 100% of the time.

The difference is I would never attend Roger Williams, under any circumstances, for any amount of money. Not even a good shot at being a lawyer.


You, great. Me, probably not either. But to some people in RI that's the best they can do, and to them I say, go for it.

To them I say, not everyone was meant to be a lawyer.

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:10 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
JoeMo wrote:
Grizz wrote:
JoeMo wrote:Grizz - Of course, I never said you should go to Roger Williams OVER going T14 or even to BU or BC or even UConn. All of those are recognized regionally as being solid schools and are much better institutions than Roger Williams. I am a firm believer in that you should go to to the best school that you can go to, closest to the area that you intend to practice in.

I was simply speaking to the conversation that transpired earlier in this thread about it never being wise to pursue anything lower than T14 and that's simply not the case. It's not that black and white 100% of the time.

The difference is I would never attend Roger Williams, under any circumstances, for any amount of money. Not even a good shot at being a lawyer.


You, great. Me, probably not either. But to some people in RI that's the best they can do, and to them I say, go for it.

To them I say, not everyone was meant to be a lawyer.


and that's where I'm saying there's a problem with your way of thinking. What if... you grew up in RI, have kids or some other tie to the state, can't move, but really want to practice? If you want to be a criminal lawyer in Providence your prospects aren't all that bad with RWU. So if that's what they want to do then go for it. Why does that mean they weren't meant to be a lawyer? They were simply dealt a different hand.

As I said, I know plenty of people that have gone to RWU that have successful law careers in RI (By RI standards). Would not compare to Harvard grads in NY but still.

scammedhard
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby scammedhard » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:18 pm

JoeMo wrote:As I said, I know plenty of people that have gone to RWU that have successful law careers in RI (By RI standards). Would not compare to Harvard grads in NY but still.

That's all very sweet. But you are forgetting about all the other RWU grads that did not get a successful law career. Now, they are all broke, under/unemployed, and drowning in non-dischargeable debt. Remember the NALP numbers: 28K full-time, bar passage reqd-positions for 44K total JD graduates...per year.

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Grizz
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby Grizz » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:22 pm

Just because you really want to do something doesn't mean you should.

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JoeMo
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby JoeMo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:27 pm

Grizz wrote:Just because you really want to do something doesn't mean you should.


I'll give you that.

EMZE
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Re: When does law school become worth it?

Postby EMZE » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:40 am

Grizz wrote:Just because you really want to do something doesn't mean you should.


Agreed. And I believe a quote from a different context applied well to this whole situation.

"Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought."

I believe there is a much larger span of what applicants "ought" to do outside of a full ride to T14. It gets much hairier outside of T30. Beyond that, I don't think most should do the whole strong regional unless they have it nailed down as to where you want to live, they are certain they can pay for it, and that "strong regional" is the best in the area. Prime example that I am looking at is CU-Boulder. Best school in CO (out of 2). Neck and neck with U Utah for best in mountain west. Yes, T14 will place better into the biglaw in Denver, but CU does very well placing into local gov. jobs.

So, I think we can all at least agree on: if you are going to bit the bullet and go to law school, you really do need to do a lot of specific research beyond TLS on the school that you will roll the dice on. Research detached from emotion and your desire to save the world with law, and plan for the reasonably worst case scenario. That may well be unemployment.




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