How much does it really matter which school you go to?

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kahechsof
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How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby kahechsof » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:28 pm

In this way:

Supposing it is between CCN and DCNG.
There are almost no jobs that you can get out of CCN that you can't get from DCNG with the right grades.
We can assume that you will be the same student, so imagine if you would have been 25% at CCN, you will be 15% at DCNG. (I'm making those figures up).
Shouldn't we assume that employers basically know where you need to place in each school to be what they want, and that it is equally hard to do that in each school?
So why does it matter?

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omninode
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby omninode » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:39 pm

kahechsof wrote:In this way:

Supposing it is between CCN and DCNG.
There are almost no jobs that you can get out of CCN that you can't get from DCNG with the right grades.
We can assume that you will be the same student, so imagine if you would have been 25% at CCN, you will be 15% at DCNG. (I'm making those figures up).
Shouldn't we assume that employers basically know where you need to place in each school to be what they want, and that it is equally hard to do that in each school?
So why does it matter?


It matters because you have no way of knowing if you will be in the top 15-25% or whatever. You might think you know, but you do not. Everybody who goes to law school thinks they will be at the top of their class. Most of them will not. Half of them will be below median. That is when it is useful to be at a school where there are decent opportunities for most students, not just the ones at the top.

kahechsof
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby kahechsof » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:45 pm

omninode wrote:
kahechsof wrote:In this way:

Supposing it is between CCN and DCNG.
There are almost no jobs that you can get out of CCN that you can't get from DCNG with the right grades.
We can assume that you will be the same student, so imagine if you would have been 25% at CCN, you will be 15% at DCNG. (I'm making those figures up).
Shouldn't we assume that employers basically know where you need to place in each school to be what they want, and that it is equally hard to do that in each school?
So why does it matter?


It matters because you have no way of knowing if you will be in the top 15-25% or whatever. You might think you know, but you do not. Everybody who goes to law school thinks they will be at the top of their class. Most of them will not. Half of them will be below median. That is when it is useful to be at a school where there are decent opportunities for most students, not just the ones at the top.


Right. So that is what I am asking.
I think from the employment threads, we have basically seen that there is no significant difference in opportunities for the bottom of CCN compared to the almost bottom of DCNG. Isn't that so?
Can't we basically see that it works out, that the same student is in the same place no matter where she goes. (with the exception of major differences in schools?)

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tttlllsss
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby tttlllsss » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:24 pm

How about rather than imagining figures or relying on anecdote...

biglaw placement, class of '10

UChicago 58%
Cornell 58%
Columbia 55%
Penn 53%
Harvard 49%
UVA 46%
Berkeley 45%
Northwestern 44%
NYU 43%
Michigan 42%
Stanford 41%
Duke 38%
Georgetown 37%
UCLA 35%
Yale 33%
BC 33%
BU 30%
Vandy 29%
USC 28%
UT-Austin 26%
Fordham 25%
GWU 24%
Notre Dame 23%
Emory 21%
WUSTL 18%
UIUC 17%
SMU 16%
W&M 15%
UC-Davis 15%
Wake Forest 15%
Howard 15%

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

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IAFG
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby IAFG » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:30 pm

There are so many issues with those NLJ stats.

* NLJ250 only goes down to firms w/ 160 attorneys. LOTS of market-paying firms in secondary markets have 100-150 lawyers. That's going to skew down schools that place well into secondaries or attract students who aren't trying to get NYC.
* Ignores clerkships
* Ignores PI preference (I am guessing this hurts Boalt quite a bit)

I think OP is right that the difference in placement power is slight between CCNMVPDCN, and is going to depend almost completely on your grades. I also think a person who was going to be top 1/3 at Duke was also going to be roughly top 1/3 at NYU. So with that in mind, I would seriously consider taking $$ at Duke, Cornell or Northwestern over sticker at a CCN.

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Grizz
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby Grizz » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:33 pm

IAFG wrote:* NLJ250 only goes down to firms w/ 160 attorneys. LOTS of market-paying firms in secondary markets have 100-150 lawyers. That's going to skew down schools that place well into secondaries or attract students who aren't trying to get NYC.

Credited. I've been seeing a lot of this at Vanderbilt.

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Kring345
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby Kring345 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:33 pm

It's always been a bit confusing to me as to why Cornell is so high. What's the consensus? Proximity to NYC? Cant be. NYU etc are A LOT closer! More people at Cornell are gunning for big law while other schools self select PI (which probably explains HYS being so low)? Also I often hear of NUs great placement, but that doesn't seem to pan out in the numbers. Myth?

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tttlllsss
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby tttlllsss » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:35 pm

Obviously there are issues w/ the data, but it's a good starting point and a lot better than the usual "I have a friend at Duke and he was median and got biglaw" shit I keep seeing around here

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Grizz
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby Grizz » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:36 pm

Kring345 wrote:It's always been a bit confusing to me as to why Cornell is so high. What's the consensus? Proximity to NYC? Cant be. NYU etc are A LOT closer! More people at Cornell are gunning for big law while other schools self select PI (which probably explains HYS being so low)? Also I often hear of NUs great placement, but that doesn't seem to pan out in the numbers. Myth?

1) Cornell is a traditional NYC feeder. People know this and got to Cornell for NYCbiglaw
2) With 200 kids, Cornell is subject to swings in the stats. Year before these stats it was like 45%? Year after should be about 40% (based on leaked data). A few kids getting unlucky makes a big difference.

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IAFG
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby IAFG » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:39 pm

Kring345 wrote:It's always been a bit confusing to me as to why Cornell is so high. What's the consensus? Proximity to NYC? Cant be. NYU etc are A LOT closer! More people at Cornell are gunning for big law while other schools self select PI (which probably explains HYS being so low)? Also I often hear of NUs great placement, but that doesn't seem to pan out in the numbers. Myth?

Are you noticing how closely gathered the stats are? NU places more than Mich... by 2%, or 5 students in NU's graduating class. Berkeley and UVA place more than NU, by 1% and 2%, respectively.

I think this shows pretty clearly that all the top schools give you pretty similar access to market-paying jobs.

ccmbr006
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby ccmbr006 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:51 am

Depends on what you want to do and where you want to practice. For BigLaw, a lot. For sole practitionership, none.

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IAFG
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby IAFG » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:55 am

ccmbr006 wrote:Depends on what you want to do and where you want to practice. For BigLaw, a lot. For sole practitionership, none.

:roll: it's been said around here before, but it should be malpractice to open a solo practice without multiple years of practice with experienced professionals. It's like practicing medicine without a residency.

ccmbr006
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby ccmbr006 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:37 am

Yeah, I wouldn't advise it, but some idiots do it. Your school also matters less if you want to be an ADA or something.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: How much does it really matter which school you go to?

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:41 am

kahechsof wrote:We can assume that you will be the same student, so imagine if you would have been 25% at CCN, you will be 15% at DCNG. (I'm making those figures up).

So you're making an unsubstantiated claim and making up numbers to support it?

COOL STORY BRO.




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