Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

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prospect2014
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby prospect2014 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:55 pm

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acrossthelake
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:06 pm

I'm not sure what you're trying to figure out here. Are you worried that Asians have a penalty? They don't.

And no, it's flawed. You have to remember yield. You can't count on the fact that everyone you admitted will attend, and usually when you lose admits, you lose the stronger ones. Even at YHS, they will lose students to each other and large scholarships elsewhere and other random personal considerations. So while your analysis of the entering class is correct, it doesn't represent what the school *admitted*.

I don't think we really have any data to figure out who the person with 157 was, other than the fact that they must have REALLY good softs. They might be white, URM, Asian, whatever, but the soft must have been really good to overcome the 157. Being URM is not *that* big a boost. Plenty of URMs with LSATs above 157 are rejected by YHS every year.

Further, what do you think would be the point of a penalty? The penalty occurs at the undergrad level *because* Asians have such great scores, better than White applicants. While I certainly don't agree with the penalty at that level, it makes more sense there. If Asians do, on average, worse than Whites on the LSAT, why would they throw an additional penalty on there?

prospect2014
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby prospect2014 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:47 am

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Errzii
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby Errzii » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:51 am

TL;DR, Asian Americans are not URM, sorry bro.

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ahduth
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby ahduth » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:02 pm

Glock wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Over Represented Minority



Jews
Asians
Asperger's sufferers
Megalomaniacs


Alcoholics.

Wait maybe that's just NYU.

prospect2014
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby prospect2014 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:51 pm

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ahduth
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby ahduth » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:42 am

Oh come on, this thread sucked before, now you're trying to ressurect it? If you have a problem with how Yale, Stanford, etc are composing their classes, why don't you get in touch with them? I'm sure Deans Asha, Deal and whoever is at Harvard would be happy to tell you to fuck off in an appropriate detailed statistical form. In the meantime, all you've made clear is that you're very interested in Asian American enrollment, and also want to troll Columbia for some reason.

Even if there was an Asian American penalty (which I personally find extremely unlikely), what would you do about it?

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Kabuo
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby Kabuo » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:58 am

ahduth wrote:Oh come on, this thread sucked before, now you're trying to ressurect it?


Seriously. You've been given evidence that there is no penalty. Why does a specific breakdown matter? Are you writing an article about this? If you are, wtf is TLS a source?

prospect2014
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby prospect2014 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:34 pm

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:57 pm

Wanted to avoid posting in this thread almost as much as I fear meeting OP irl lol, but the 5% Asian American//7.5% Pacific Islander figures for HLS sound impossibly wrong. At least for my year (I suppose if those figures are for the current 1Ls, I could not be as certain...but I can't imagine the %'s changing that much in a year). I have met only one Pacific Islanders who is in my year, and he commented about how he has pretty much never met another one. There are none in my section, nor in at least 2 other sections. I know the rough estimate #'s of all the Asian Americans in at least half the sections, and they are all (maybe save one) higher (sometimes MUCH higher) than the 5%. ~10% sounds more accurate to me, and I recall seeing a figure around there for Asian Americans at HLS when I was applying awhile back (can't find the source anymore).

I'll also agree that law schools don't hold Asian American ethnicity against applicants (unlike in ugrad).

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rayiner
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby rayiner » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:36 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:Wanted to avoid posting in this thread almost as much as I fear meeting OP irl lol, but the 5% Asian American//7.5% Pacific Islander figures for HLS sound impossibly wrong. At least for my year (I suppose if those figures are for the current 1Ls, I could not be as certain...but I can't imagine the %'s changing that much in a year). I have met only one Pacific Islanders who is in my year, and he commented about how he has pretty much never met another one. There are none in my section, nor in at least 2 other sections. I know the rough estimate #'s of all the Asian Americans in at least half the sections, and they are all (maybe save one) higher (sometimes MUCH higher) than the 5%. ~10% sounds more accurate to me, and I recall seeing a figure around there for Asian Americans at HLS when I was applying awhile back (can't find the source anymore).

I'll also agree that law schools don't hold Asian American ethnicity against applicants (unlike in ugrad).


I feel like they're including Indians in the pacific islander count.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:46 pm

rayiner wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:Wanted to avoid posting in this thread almost as much as I fear meeting OP irl lol, but the 5% Asian American//7.5% Pacific Islander figures for HLS sound impossibly wrong. At least for my year (I suppose if those figures are for the current 1Ls, I could not be as certain...but I can't imagine the %'s changing that much in a year). I have met only one Pacific Islanders who is in my year, and he commented about how he has pretty much never met another one. There are none in my section, nor in at least 2 other sections. I know the rough estimate #'s of all the Asian Americans in at least half the sections, and they are all (maybe save one) higher (sometimes MUCH higher) than the 5%. ~10% sounds more accurate to me, and I recall seeing a figure around there for Asian Americans at HLS when I was applying awhile back (can't find the source anymore).

I'll also agree that law schools don't hold Asian American ethnicity against applicants (unlike in ugrad).


I feel like they're including Indians in the pacific islander count.


I feel that wouldn't change it much. Indians are also rarely seen on campus here. I see wayyyyy too many East Asians for it to be 5% -- my section alone had between ~14 East Asians (and we have 7 sections lol...though I heard my section has more AA's than most). 2 Indians.

Once again, maybe those numbers are for this year's 1L class? Which I have no real idea about (although I still think it is somehow not "right" -- either in calculation or presentation, because I swear there are more than 28 1L East Asians from those I know through my affinity organization).

prospect2014
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby prospect2014 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:34 am

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Kabuo
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby Kabuo » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:37 am

prospect2014 wrote:Out of curiosity, DoubleCheck, why do you fear meeting me irl?



It probably has nothing to do with this thread.

prospect2014
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby prospect2014 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:39 am

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Kabuo
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby Kabuo » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:42 am

prospect2014 wrote:Without this thread, s/he would have no basis on which to believe I exist.


Yeah, you saw right through what I did there.

prospect2014
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby prospect2014 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:45 am

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby DoubleChecks » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:43 pm

My comment was more directed to the other statistic about how Asian Americans were only 5% at HLS, and Pacific Islanders were 7.5%. The numbers you started off with and the following analysis (did that analysis forget to factor in those who are mixes or might choose 'other' for their ethnicity?) are things I am not as certain about.

But, going off personal experience, 17% sounds a bit high (though possible). Anything between 10-17% in any given year at HLS for Asian Americans sounds reasonable to me.

prospect2014
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby prospect2014 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:51 am

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:23 am

prospect2014 wrote:Yes it seems like it did neglect mixes. However, I don't doubt that Harvard would count any mix of W with any minority as one for the minorities. Mixes between minorities is a bit more complicated and might shift a few members here and there, but on balance it should even out. Moreover, a mix between minorities is more likely to occur between Hispanics and African Americans than it is with either one of those 2 and Asian Americans--in 2008, AfAms who out-married had spouses who were 3 to 5 times more likely to be Hispanic than Asian. So with forgivable simplifications, mixes shouldn't impact the Asian mass too much.

As you said yourself, DoubleChecks, drastic jumps or falls are highly unlikely year to year.
A drop from 17% to 10% is hardly unnoticeable. That would mean from one year to the next, 40 less Asians ultimately matriculated.

Moreover, 10% would mean there are roughly equal numbers of African Americans and Asian Americans. Over 3 years it should balance out, unless Harvard is actively trying to shift the numbers one way or the other. Does it seem like there are equal numbers? Or is it closer to the other side of the spectrum with around 3 Asians for every 2 African Americans?

Thanks again, and explain your fear of meeting me any time (including when you do meet me).


It isn't about whether Harvard counts them as a minority or not...a lot of people may choose to select 'other' -- HLS isn't going to then move them to some other category (even if they knew what it would be). There are also some who may feel they do not adequately identify with any of the available groups. But you're right, overall, it shouldn't shift the numbers too much.

Nevertheless, the 10% figure I gave was an approximation. The outdated figure you gave in your first post was 12% -- that may very well be accurate as I cannot reasonably differentiate 10% from 12% simply based on my own personal experience (no matter how attentive I may try to be to the subject).

So really the difference is between 12% and 17%...but the way you arrived at 17% might have been flawed (see first paragraph). While, as I admitted, it would not change the figures too much, it MAY still change it by 1-2%. So then it is now between 12%-15%. A 3% difference, or roughly 16-17 students in any given year. That isn't necessarily noticeable out of a student body of 550 (not saying that it isn't insignificant). Not sure why this matters, however.

Now on your last request...if this thread is indicative of how it would be to talk to you irl...to be frank, I just don't have the time or energy it would take to meet you lol.

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby BiglawOrBust » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:28 am

Apply to the law schools you wish to attend and see what happens. And don't make your friends solely on shared heritage.

/thread

prospect2014
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby prospect2014 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:51 pm

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Kabuo
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby Kabuo » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:30 pm

prospect2014 wrote:I still don't follow.
I haven't said anything offensive. I've stayed neutral.
I might not type in relaxed forum speak but this is an attempt at a factual understanding, not a joke telling session.


:shock: This is the problem. No one cares about this but you, who care a lot, and frankly it's pretty weird and off-putting. Stop worrying about the number of asians at H.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:49 pm

Kabuo wrote:
prospect2014 wrote:I still don't follow.
I haven't said anything offensive. I've stayed neutral.
I might not type in relaxed forum speak but this is an attempt at a factual understanding, not a joke telling session.


:shock: This is the problem. No one cares about this but you, who care a lot, and frankly it's pretty weird and off-putting. Stop worrying about the number of asians at H.


lol +1. OP, you have been rather articulate, well-mannered, and sufficiently open-minded (as far as internet forums go). However, you also come on as someone who is kind of "intense" irl. I can maybe imagine having a conversation like this with a friend I know decently well one random day...you know, if it happens to come upon that subject...but I cannot imagine having a conversation like this with strangers (or in an online forum haha), esp. with the amount of attention and detail you've put into it (including the things that strike me [and probably most] as somewhat irrelevant -- not to say it isn't important to you).

But to answer your question, African Americans definitely seem fewer in number than Asian Americans at HLS. There really is an 'other' category (or something similar) I think when it comes to self-identification, so let's say that is 1%. 1% NA and 11% African Americans take us to 13%. 37%-13% and we're to 24%. Hispanics might be declining, but you haven't provided an actual number for me (or a before/after for that matter)...so even if we assume it is around Asian Americans/African Americans but lower (say, 10%), that leaves us with 14% Asian Americans.

I didn't say 17% was impossible, just that it seemed to discount other categories (see above). That is why I said between 12-15% sounds right to me. Once again, I am not sure why this difference should matter at all. Are you writing a thesis on Asian Americans in higher education or law school or something lol? Don't tell me you're hinging your decision on whether a law school has a few more Asians or not.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Asian American representation at YHSColumbia

Postby TaipeiMort » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:56 pm

Glock wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Over Represented Minority



Jews
Asians
Asperger's sufferers
Megalomaniacs


And Mormons.

The biggest URMs are white Southern Evangelicals and Mexicans.




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