Veterans Thread

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uvandy
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby uvandy » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:39 am

EDITED
Last edited by uvandy on Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:47 am

uvandy wrote:Howdy yall. Army E5 paralegal here with one (relatively) quiet deployment to Iraq. Dream is to commission with JAG. Enlisted 4.5 years ago as an E4 with a BA at a top public. ETS is next Oct but planning to take terminal leave for school. Was supposed to take the LSAT in Oct but DC politicians got in the way so taking it in Dec. LSAC GPA is 3.45 while actual is 3.33 and halfway done with MA with 4.0. Hoping to get into UT but UH/STCL is more likely.

Look into getting out early to attend school. You can move your ETS date up like 90 days I think. Check out AR 635-200.

Why STCL?

uvandy
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby uvandy » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:57 am

I have 75 days of leave saved up which would be preferable. I'm from Houston and JAG is no guarantee (around 7% acceptance rate) so UH/STCL are probably best options if my actual is similar to practice. Still got a month though.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:21 pm

uvandy wrote:I have 75 days of leave saved up which would be preferable. I'm from Houston and JAG is no guarantee (around 7% acceptance rate) so UH/STCL are probably best options if my actual is similar to practice. Still got a month though.

Check the reg. You can still take your leave and they will move your ets date back to 15 days prior to your school start date.

You're absolutely right, JAG is no guarantee. Thats why I'm asking why STCL? They don't have very good placement. There employment score is good but its all small firm work. I wouldn't go there unless Houston is the only place you want to work, you have 0 aspersions for big law, and it's free.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:54 pm

Something to keep in mind as far as JAG:

Of the people who apply and don't get it, there is a significant chunk of people who get denied because they have some medically disqualifying condition.

The other thing that the JAG recruiter told me they really screen for is genuine motivation/understanding of the military. They try to figure out if A) this applicant really GETS what it means to be in the military: do they understand all the implications of deployments/PCSing? Do they seem like they'll adjust well to that? and B) Does this person really want JAG, or did they just strike out for a Big Law job?

If you're a veteran, you have pretty well already cleared the medical fitness hurdles, and obviously understand the military lifestyle in general.

Even then, it's far from guaranteed...but according to what the JAG guy told me, veterans definitely have an inside track.

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grungy89
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby grungy89 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:46 pm

Are you interested in JAG because of simply using your law degree to get back in the military as an officer or does that work appeal to you? I feel like I only ever saw JAGs handling summary court martials for UA Marines. It was always the same too, Guilty, 30 days in the brig, then processed for AdSep.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:07 pm

grungy89 wrote:Are you interested in JAG because of simply using your law degree to get back in the military as an officer or does that work appeal to you? I feel like I only ever saw JAGs handling summary court martials for UA Marines. It was always the same too, Guilty, 30 days in the brig, then processed for AdSep.


Yeah Jag does quite a bit more than that. For instance you can do a general court martial i.e. a murder case. I've been a part of 3 during my 5 years in JAG. You can also be the equivalent of a PD but with much better pay and living conditions (when you're not deployed. Speaking of deployments (in the Army at least) you either rarely deploy or you leave early. It sucks because all the paralegals and warrant's stay and deploy more frequently. There also administrative law, legal assistance and claims. This doesn't include special assignments like instructor at the JAG school in Charlottesville (UVA) or rank required jobs like head of Tax or SJA. You can also do out of the box assignments like be a general's aide. Advise on military strikes, become a ranger and deploy with a Ranger Bat. There also so really cool assignments like the Netherlands or England or Romania because we need JAG's everywhere. Some of those locations allow you to wear civilians.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:22 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
grungy89 wrote:Are you interested in JAG because of simply using your law degree to get back in the military as an officer or does that work appeal to you? I feel like I only ever saw JAGs handling summary court martials for UA Marines. It was always the same too, Guilty, 30 days in the brig, then processed for AdSep.


Yeah Jag does quite a bit more than that. For instance you can do a general court martial i.e. a murder case. I've been a part of 3 during my 5 years in JAG. You can also be the equivalent of a PD but with much better pay and living conditions (when you're not deployed. Speaking of deployments (in the Army at least) you either rarely deploy or you leave early. It sucks because all the paralegals and warrant's stay and deploy more frequently. There also administrative law, legal assistance and claims. This doesn't include special assignments like instructor at the JAG school in Charlottesville (UVA) or rank required jobs like head of Tax or SJA. You can also do out of the box assignments like be a general's aide. Advise on military strikes, become a ranger and deploy with a Ranger Bat. There also so really cool assignments like the Netherlands or England or Romania because we need JAG's everywhere. Some of those locations allow you to wear civilians.


How many times have you deployed as JAG? That is one reason I'm leaving the Army; I'm tired of being gone all the time. I'm not even talking about actual deployments so much as JRTC, NTC, YTC, HAMET, gunnery, etc. I've been keeping JAG in the back of my mind as a back up plan but you just made it sound like a pretty sweet deal. I'm also leaving the Army with 9 years invested so I could come back and do another 12 and retire as a LTC which seems pretty sweet too.

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grungy89
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby grungy89 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:22 pm

Do JAG's still have to serve in command posts to pick up rank at company and Batallion levels or is the career path different?

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:28 pm

grungy89 wrote:Do JAG's still have to serve in command posts to pick up rank at company and Batallion levels or is the career path different?


From second hand knowledge (and there are JAGS elsewhere on TLS). The promotion path is slightly different for JAGS, but commanding a legal services office or local area defense is nearly a prerequisite to picking up senior rank. However, there are definitely some JAGS that get away with being the SJA for base commands (e.g. the "general counsel" for Camp Lejeune) or very senior commands (General Casey's [I am old] SJA in Iraq).

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Taco
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Taco » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:59 pm

Hey guys, I have a question about GI Bill/YRP.

accepted / planning to attend Cornell next fall. I will be on the GI Bill, but it looks like I will be on terminal leave until mid-october, which means, as far as I understand it, not eligible for yellow ribbon program for at least the first semester. Is this correct? Also, according to the admissions packet, cornell gives financial aid (merit and need) for the full three years, meaning if a student does not get a scholarship for the first year it will not be available in subsequent years. I applied knowing that I probably would not have YRP for my first semester, but is there a possibility that in my current situation it won't be available at all?

Thanks

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:46 am

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
grungy89 wrote:Are you interested in JAG because of simply using your law degree to get back in the military as an officer or does that work appeal to you? I feel like I only ever saw JAGs handling summary court martials for UA Marines. It was always the same too, Guilty, 30 days in the brig, then processed for AdSep.


Yeah Jag does quite a bit more than that. For instance you can do a general court martial i.e. a murder case. I've been a part of 3 during my 5 years in JAG. You can also be the equivalent of a PD but with much better pay and living conditions (when you're not deployed. Speaking of deployments (in the Army at least) you either rarely deploy or you leave early. It sucks because all the paralegals and warrant's stay and deploy more frequently. There also administrative law, legal assistance and claims. This doesn't include special assignments like instructor at the JAG school in Charlottesville (UVA) or rank required jobs like head of Tax or SJA. You can also do out of the box assignments like be a general's aide. Advise on military strikes, become a ranger and deploy with a Ranger Bat. There also so really cool assignments like the Netherlands or England or Romania because we need JAG's everywhere. Some of those locations allow you to wear civilians.


Hey, since you're a JAG, does what I posted above about prior service/vets having a better shot than the average bear seem accurate?

uvandy
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby uvandy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:04 pm

This is all through the grapevine but I heard both ways. Like you mentioned, prior service shows experience and commitment to the military, but they also want new blood. I'm guessing there is a quota just like in OCS. Purely anecdotal but in my 4.5 years, I have only met 1 JA who served enlisted active duty although a few more were reservist while in college. Also only know 1 JA who was a prior officer in a different branch and not FLEP or ed-delay.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:54 pm

FWIW, just sat down with the JAG officer here who used to do field interviews for applicants. I asked him why the selection rate was so low and what dinged the 90% of applicants who missed.

He sort of laughed and said, "Remember, we'll interview ANYBODY. I've done countless interviews for 5'2, 250 lbs people from shit law schools."

Just one guy's opinion, but maybe cause to not feel TOO bleak about the whole thing.

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Rotor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Rotor » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:39 pm

Taco wrote:Hey guys, I have a question about GI Bill/YRP.

accepted / planning to attend Cornell next fall. I will be on the GI Bill, but it looks like I will be on terminal leave until mid-october, which means, as far as I understand it, not eligible for yellow ribbon program for at least the first semester. Is this correct? Also, according to the admissions packet, cornell gives financial aid (merit and need) for the full three years, meaning if a student does not get a scholarship for the first year it will not be available in subsequent years. I applied knowing that I probably would not have YRP for my first semester, but is there a possibility that in my current situation it won't be available at all?

Thanks

Call Cornell's FinAid. This would be a Cornell policy, not VA. You have to get recertified by the school each term to keep getting your benefits so I can't imagine them penalizing you for 3 years just because you're technically on active duty when you start.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:45 pm

Happy Birthday Devils!

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twobitrye
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby twobitrye » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:50 am

I have some questions about using GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon in the T14. According to the spreadsheet I found on here (posted below), the GI Bill pays $47,900 at UVA with only $2,500 coming from the Yellow Ribbon. How is this possible if the max cap is around 20k for the GI Bill without Yellow Ribbon? The same question would go for UC Berkeley, which says that the GI Bill pays $50,881.

Any idea how this works?


http://www.scribd.com/doc/148027072/2013-14-Law-School-GI-Bill-Yellow-Ribbon-Info

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:53 am

twobitrye wrote:I have some questions about using GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon in the T14. According to the spreadsheet I found on here (posted below), the GI Bill pays $47,900 at UVA with only $2,500 coming from the Yellow Ribbon. How is this possible if the max cap is around 20k for the GI Bill without Yellow Ribbon? The same question would go for UC Berkeley, which says that the GI Bill pays $50,881.

Any idea how this works?


http://www.scribd.com/doc/148027072/2013-14-Law-School-GI-Bill-Yellow-Ribbon-Info


The Post-9/11 GI Bill will pay 100% of tuition and fees at a public university, up to the in-state rate. So you only really need the Yellow Ribbon Program if you're attending a private school, or if you're attending a public school and have to pay the out-of-state rate. Note that several states automatically grant in-state tuition to veterans using the GI Bill, even if you wouldn't otherwise qualify for in-state tuition.

ETA - Looking at the public school entries in the spreadsheet, if the "tuition/fees" entry is the same as the "GI Bill Pays" entry, I think that means that the school is in a state that automatically grants in-state tuition to veterans, and the tuition/fees figure listed is the in-state rate.

If the tuition/fees and "GI Bill Pays" figures are different, the school may not offer in-state tuition to veterans automatically, but in most (all?) cases, the Yellow Ribbon Program will be enough to make up the difference.

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:22 pm

Not all cases, some schools don't participate in the Yellow Ribbon program. Also, though seemingly uncommon, it is possible that schools with limited slots might not provide YRP funds to everyone eligible.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:23 pm

Are you sure this is correct? I was under the impression that the post 9/11 would only pay the private school rate of about $19k at public schools if you're not a resident of that state.

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:25 pm

I called the VA and several schools where I would be an out of state student and they all said that it would cover in state tuition.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:26 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
twobitrye wrote:I have some questions about using GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon in the T14. According to the spreadsheet I found on here (posted below), the GI Bill pays $47,900 at UVA with only $2,500 coming from the Yellow Ribbon. How is this possible if the max cap is around 20k for the GI Bill without Yellow Ribbon? The same question would go for UC Berkeley, which says that the GI Bill pays $50,881.

Any idea how this works?


2014-15 GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon


The Post-9/11 GI Bill will pay 100% of tuition and fees at a public university, up to the in-state rate. So you only really need the Yellow Ribbon Program if you're attending a private school, or if you're attending a public school and have to pay the out-of-state rate. Note that several states automatically grant in-state tuition to veterans using the GI Bill, even if you wouldn't otherwise qualify for in-state tuition.

ETA - Looking at the public school entries in the spreadsheet, if the "tuition/fees" entry is the same as the "GI Bill Pays" entry, I think that means that the school is in a state that automatically grants in-state tuition to veterans, and the tuition/fees figure listed is the in-state rate.

If the tuition/fees and "GI Bill Pays" figures are different, the school may not offer in-state tuition to veterans automatically, but in most (all?) cases, the Yellow Ribbon Program will be enough to make up the difference.


As the author of the spreadsheet, ScottRiqui is spot on. There may be other states or circumstances in which you can get in-state tuition. People gave me the exact data for Virginia & Texas, so those states had a superscript with a footnote explaining why they are fully covered at a public school. I just didn't have time to do a line-by-line on each state, so I went with the conservative amount in most instances (out-of-state tuition at the in-state rate).
Last edited by MT Cicero on Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:34 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:Are you sure this is correct? I was under the impression that the post 9/11 would only pay the private school rate of about $19k at public schools if you're not a resident of that state.


When the VA states that it covers "all tuition and fee payments for an in-state student," it means it'll cover that amount whether you're in-state or out-of-state. The $19K is for private or foreign schools only.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/bene ... 80113.html

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:34 pm

skzen75 wrote:Not all cases, some schools don't participate in the Yellow Ribbon program. Also, though seemingly uncommon, it is possible that schools with limited slots might not provide YRP funds to everyone eligible.


Good point - I didn't realize there were still so many private schools where the YRP wouldn't cover all of the difference. I think in some cases it's a holdover from the days where the GI Bill would pay private school tuition based on the state's highest public hourly tuition/fees rate, rather than being capped at $19,200. In Texas, for example, the GI Bill would pay up to about $45k/year under the old system, even at a private school, so there wasn't as much need for high YRP limits.

Since the changeover, I've seen several schools raise their YRP limits to ensure that GI Bill + YRP will cover 100% of tuition/fees, but others still leave you with some out-of-pocket expenses.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:40 pm

It would sure be nice if the private amount was raised a bit & analyzed annually to cover some set amount of the average private school. $19K is somewhere in the 30-50% neighborhood. It'd be nice if it inched to 50-70%.

A few more dollars with GI Bill + YRP and I could attend Yale for close to free! I'd need to hop in the DeLorean with ole' Doc Brown and re-attempt all of undergrad, but I'd be one step closer!




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