Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:12 pm

I solicited "military" fee waivers from these schools and here are the results..

Georgetown- granted
NYU- granted
Chicago- granted
UVA- granted
Alabama- granted
BU- granted
W&M- granted
Northwestern- no fee until Nov 4
Duke- denied
Cornell- denied
UT- denied
Florida- denied
SMU- denied
Houston- denied
Tulane- denied
Texas Tech- denied
GW- told me to ask after Oct 1
BC- ask again in late Sep
Fordham- ask again after Sep 1
Penn- no response yet
Berkeley- no response yet
WF- no response yet
Colorado- no response yet

My numbers would only get me a merit fee waiver from Tech so all of these waivers are solely due to being a veteran.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:08 pm

PBateman1 wrote:
SemperLegal wrote:
PBateman1 wrote:
Military nurses are professionals with college degrees. Why shouldn't they be commissioned officers?


Because they are not doctors, but they often try to pull rank on MDs and DOs.

Actually, I'd be happier just making a new rank for military doctors, they already get paid more, are noncombatants, and have parallel chains of command.


Well the military system of rank is not at all ideal for running a healthcare system, but as long as lawyers, supply officers, and engineers are commissioned officers so nurses should be.


I was a legal administrator with a masters degree but I could only be a CWO. Doctors and Lawyers have to get graduate degrees to do their job while nurses don't. I don't see any issue with the same distinction given to nurses/doctors that are given to legal administrators/lawyers. TBF not all legal administrators have a four year degree ( I would say a sizable majority do) but that can be solved be requiring that they have one.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:42 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
unc0mm0n1 wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
unc0mm0n1 wrote:
Yeah but you still get some of the scholly money. For instance I got a full ride to Berkeley (I didn't take it), they would have paid me an additional 2k a month on top of the BAH because of my scholarship. It only covers up to the cost of attendance but still that's a nice chunk of change the school is paying out.


So was the offer from Berkeley a full ride plus a $2000/month stipend, or did the $2000/month somehow come from the GI Bill?


This is how it worked out.

Because Berkeley is a state school the post 9/11 GI Bill covered tuition. Based on Berkeley's location I would get BAH of 2300/month. Now I also received a full ride (~150k) but the tuition is already paid so the scholarship didn't have to pay that. What the financial aid office told me was they would subtract the tuition from total cost of attendance. And award me the difference. So for this year tuition is 50k and COA is 73k. The difference is 23k. divide that by 9 months and it comes out to about 2550 a month PLUS BAH for a total of about 4850 a month. Which is still a good deal for them because instead of paying me 150k they only pay out about 70k. I also had a similar deal at a few other schools but of all the schools that I would have made a substantial amount of money, I liked Berkeley the best. Believe me it was very very difficult to turn down.


Okay, that makes sense. I'm assuming this was last cycle though (or earlier), because recent changes to the GI Bill mean that the government is now the "last payer". In other words, the GI Bill will only pay for what's left over after all scholarships are deducted from the tuition/fees, subject to the private school cap, if applicable.

If you were to receive a similar full-ride offer today, what would happen is that the government would see the full ride scholarship and say "looks like you don't need any GI Bill money for tuition/fees, so you'll get your BAH and book allowance, and that's it."


Was ScottRiqui wrong here?

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:41 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
Was ScottRiqui wrong here?


I've been looking into it a bit more, and the GI Bill does behave the way I described it; it will only pay what's left of your bill after all scholarships that are earmarked for tuition/fees have been applied.

I think it's still possible to end up with money in your pocket besides BAH and the book allowance, if you can get the school to code the money in such a way that it's not designated solely for books and tuition. So if you can get them to classify your scholarship as a "cost of living stipend" or something similar, you can still receive it directly, and the GI Bill will still pay up to the in-state tuition/fees, or up to the private school annual limit of $19,200.

I don't know how hard it is to get schools to do this, since I'm not at that point yet. I'm certainly going to try, though.

gobosox
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby gobosox » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:23 pm

Checking in here. Tried to read through some of the thread but it degraded into service rivalry... Hopefully we can keep this a forum where I can pick people's brains about how to increase my chances!

Navy O-2
LSAT: 170
GPA: 3.38
About to deploy to the Western Pacific, unfortunately right when applications are due (October)
Working hard to knock out everything I can before I deploy.

Thanks to the Janitor for his fee waiver outline-- I might do the same. Did you say that you wanted a waiver because you're military? Or just asked for one in general and "dropped" that you were in the military?

Also, I posted this elsewhere but thought this also might be a good spot to solicit information-- what have your strategies been for recommendations? So far, I've asked 1 professor from school and my CO. Should I try for 2 professors? Anyone investigate this issue?

Thanks to all for your service.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:51 pm

gobosox wrote:Checking in here. Tried to read through some of the thread but it degraded into service rivalry... Hopefully we can keep this a forum where I can pick people's brains about how to increase my chances!

Navy O-2
LSAT: 170
GPA: 3.38
About to deploy to the Western Pacific, unfortunately right when applications are due (October)
Working hard to knock out everything I can before I deploy.

Thanks to the Janitor for his fee waiver outline-- I might do the same. Did you say that you wanted a waiver because you're military? Or just asked for one in general and "dropped" that you were in the military?

Also, I posted this elsewhere but thought this also might be a good spot to solicit information-- what have your strategies been for recommendations? So far, I've asked 1 professor from school and my CO. Should I try for 2 professors? Anyone investigate this issue?

Thanks to all for your service.

This is exactly what I said:
_________ Admissions,
I'd like to request a fee waiver if they are available to veterans. I'd be happy to provide some type of proof if it is needed. Thank you.
Name
LSAC #

I didn't include my numbers because they suck but they can look them up with my LSAC# anyways. Since you've got a good LSAT score you could throw that it there too and some of the schools might give you one for that if the veteran part doesn't do it for them.

As for your letters, if you have another professor you can get one from I would but if you can't don't sweat it. I did the same as you for my letters.
Last edited by TheJanitor6203 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:52 pm

gobosox wrote:Checking in here. Tried to read through some of the thread but it degraded into service rivalry... Hopefully we can keep this a forum where I can pick people's brains about how to increase my chances!

Navy O-2
LSAT: 170
GPA: 3.38
About to deploy to the Western Pacific, unfortunately right when applications are due (October)
Working hard to knock out everything I can before I deploy.

Thanks to the Janitor for his fee waiver outline-- I might do the same. Did you say that you wanted a waiver because you're military? Or just asked for one in general and "dropped" that you were in the military?

Also, I posted this elsewhere but thought this also might be a good spot to solicit information-- what have your strategies been for recommendations? So far, I've asked 1 professor from school and my CO. Should I try for 2 professors? Anyone investigate this issue?

Thanks to all for your service.


I think a simple Hello, I am very intrested in your school, however due to my deployment, paying for applications is burdensome. Is there anyway you can waive the fees?" Don't overthink it.

Also, unless you actually have a good relationship with your CO, I would avoid it. No one in the civilian world really understands the COs role, and in my experience the delay, extra ammunition to the CO, and the fact that the military ruins your ability to write a letter makes it not worth the effort. Go for someone that you like, that will actually write a timely letter, and who doesn't use standard NAVAL LETTER FORMAT.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:53 pm

SemperLegal wrote:
gobosox wrote:Checking in here. Tried to read through some of the thread but it degraded into service rivalry... Hopefully we can keep this a forum where I can pick people's brains about how to increase my chances!

Navy O-2
LSAT: 170
GPA: 3.38
About to deploy to the Western Pacific, unfortunately right when applications are due (October)
Working hard to knock out everything I can before I deploy.

Thanks to the Janitor for his fee waiver outline-- I might do the same. Did you say that you wanted a waiver because you're military? Or just asked for one in general and "dropped" that you were in the military?

Also, I posted this elsewhere but thought this also might be a good spot to solicit information-- what have your strategies been for recommendations? So far, I've asked 1 professor from school and my CO. Should I try for 2 professors? Anyone investigate this issue?

Thanks to all for your service.


I think a simple Hello, I am very intrested in your school, however due to my deployment, paying for applications is burdensome. Is there anyway you can waive the fees?" Don't overthink it.

Also, unless you actually have a good relationship with your CO, I would avoid it. No one in the civilian world really understands the COs role, and in my experience the delay, extra ammunition to the CO, and the fact that the military ruins your ability to write a letter makes it not worth the effort. Go for someone that you like, that will actually write a timely letter, and who doesn't use standard NAVAL LETTER FORMAT.


Another reason to avoid, if possible, the CO letter is that you want to shape your own military narrative, don't let someone else do it for you

gobosox
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby gobosox » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:35 pm

I read in one of the "how to get into top law school" type books where an admissions officer said (this is almost a direct quote) that "if you'd been in the real world for a few years and didn't submit a letter from your boss (or CO, if in the military) that would be suspect"

Plus, my CO is quite intelligent and can write well, so I'm not worried about him writing a good rec. Mostly concerned about the "only sending in 1 academic rec" thing.

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willwash
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby willwash » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:59 am

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
PBateman1 wrote:
SemperLegal wrote:
PBateman1 wrote:
Military nurses are professionals with college degrees. Why shouldn't they be commissioned officers?


Because they are not doctors, but they often try to pull rank on MDs and DOs.

Actually, I'd be happier just making a new rank for military doctors, they already get paid more, are noncombatants, and have parallel chains of command.


Well the military system of rank is not at all ideal for running a healthcare system, but as long as lawyers, supply officers, and engineers are commissioned officers so nurses should be.


I was a legal administrator with a masters degree but I could only be a CWO. Doctors and Lawyers have to get graduate degrees to do their job while nurses don't. I don't see any issue with the same distinction given to nurses/doctors that are given to legal administrators/lawyers. TBF not all legal administrators have a four year degree ( I would say a sizable majority do) but that can be solved be requiring that they have one.



TBF doctors come in as full LTs and make LCDR within just a few years, whereas nurses enter as ENS and take 10 years to make LCDR like everyone else. So if you have a nurse "pulling rank" on a doctor, it will almost always be a nurse with 10 years of experience or more talking to a freshly minted O-3 doctor.

This happens in civilian hospitals too...not the "rank" thing, but very experienced nurses "talking down" in general to brand new, inexperienced MDs.

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Rotor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Rotor » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:01 am

gobosox wrote:I read in one of the "how to get into top law school" type books where an admissions officer said (this is almost a direct quote) that "if you'd been in the real world for a few years and didn't submit a letter from your boss (or CO, if in the military) that would be suspect"

Plus, my CO is quite intelligent and can write well, so I'm not worried about him writing a good rec. Mostly concerned about the "only sending in 1 academic rec" thing.

I agree-- sending in something without a CO (or similar military mentor) recommendation would raise questions. But you don't necessarily need your current CO. It could be a DH if that person knew you better and could write a good letter. If you can get more than one great rec from a prof, you should.

As for the advice above about shaping your own narrative about your military history, a good recommender will sit down with you and ask about your goals, what you would like emphasized in your letter. Heck, mine even asked for a fleshed out outline of what I wanted it to look like. Not everyone will go that far, but when you ask for the recommendation you can always tell him/her what your PS is about and what characteristics in particular you'd like commented on. But (as with every recommender) make sure that it will be nothing but positive comments on those traits.

And for anyone complaining about the Naval Letter Format as an example of bad writing has apparently not read recommendations from some academics-- especially in the math/engineering world. I had an opportunity to read some for non-law school settings but boy were they bad. At least the NLF gives it a rational structure (and is quite similar to the way law firm letters are written-- only the to and the from are switched, and cc: replaces via:).

cerberus7
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby cerberus7 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:52 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:I solicited "military" fee waivers from these schools and here are the results..

Georgetown- granted
NYU- granted
Chicago- granted
UVA- granted
Alabama- granted
BU- granted
W&M- granted
Northwestern- no fee until Nov 4
Duke- denied
Cornell- denied
UT- denied
Florida- denied
SMU- denied
Houston- denied
Tulane- denied
Texas Tech- denied
GW- told me to ask after Oct 1
BC- ask again in late Sep
Fordham- ask again after Sep 1
Penn- no response yet
Berkeley- no response yet
WF- no response yet
Colorado- no response yet

My numbers would only get me a merit fee waiver from Tech so all of these waivers are solely due to being a veteran.


Just to add a bit to the list:

Penn: Granted
Berkeley: Granted
UCLA: Granted
Michigan: Denied
Notre Dame: Granted
Columbia: Denied
Stanford: Denied
Harvard: Denied
Yale: Denied

Just like TheJanitor's case, these waivers are based solely on the vet status. Some of them asked for proof, and a memorandum signed by your CO verifying your service or a DD-214 should be sufficient

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graphia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby graphia » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:58 pm

Anyone want to swap Personal Statements? Looking for a second pair of eyes on mine.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:28 pm

Hope everyone is ok. I know a huge number of my friends ended up taking contracting jobs in the Navy Yard/Capital Region. Its always a little extra shitty when you leave the military and your family thinks the days of being shot at are over, only for this to happen.

Hopefully, the DC police passes on the military's frustration if there is a rough apprehension.

gobosox
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby gobosox » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:40 pm

Wondering what people's thoughts are for a diversity statement for the military aspect. I know the prompts don't seem to restrict us to what we can write about, and I'm wondering if it's general practice to put in a blurb about the military stuff.

Also, thoughts going out to those at the Navy Yard.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:48 pm

gobosox wrote:Wondering what people's thoughts are for a diversity statement for the military aspect. I know the prompts don't seem to restrict us to what we can write about, and I'm wondering if it's general practice to put in a blurb about the military stuff.

Also, thoughts going out to those at the Navy Yard.


I put it in, if only to help explain my timeline (where I was, when I got my degree, my career track, why I was leaving). Civilians don't really understand it.

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Ramius
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Ramius » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:48 pm

gobosox wrote:Wondering what people's thoughts are for a diversity statement for the military aspect. I know the prompts don't seem to restrict us to what we can write about, and I'm wondering if it's general practice to put in a blurb about the military stuff.

Also, thoughts going out to those at the Navy Yard.


It really depends. If your entire PS revolves around your experience, your DS could seem pretty redundant if it's about your service again. If your PS isn't about the military, by all means include it. If your PS and DS are both about the military in some way, make sure they aren't completely connected with overlap. They need to be completely unique discussions of you as an applicant.

To provide some context, my PS was entirely about my service experience and my DS was about overcoming a life-threatening medical condition while in the service. They told two different stories that gave my overall application better depth (IMO).

I hope they can find the two additional shooters they're looking for, and I hope they have the opportunity to face justice for their crimes.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:51 am

.
Last edited by MT Cicero on Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:09 am

Too bad an effective date in 2014 is off the table.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/201305 ... ition-push

Thanks for the info, craigsan18.

ArcticDeckie
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ArcticDeckie » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Just wanted to thank all the Active Duty members and vets who have contributed to this thread so far, as this has been a great source of information and support.

Coast Guard E-5 in the DC/Maryland area
GPA: 3.4x
LSAT: 162

Applying in the DC area. I applied ED to GULC, a reach to be sure, but to my surprise I've already received an invite to a group interview, so I suppose I'm still in the running.

Something I haven't had to think about in a while: What kind of attire would you guys suggest? A normal, civilian suit? Bravo's? Trops? My take on it so far is Bravo's for the 'suit and tie' look, as I'd imagine that's what everyone else will be wearing.
Last edited by ArcticDeckie on Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:42 pm

ArcticDeckie wrote:Just wanted to thank all the Active Duty members and vets who have contributed to this thread so far, as this has been a great source of information and support.

Coast Guard E-5 in the DC/Maryland area
GPA: 3.45, Classics degree from U. of Pittsburgh
LSAT: 162

Applying in the DC area. I applied ED to GULC, a reach to be sure, but to my surprise I've already received an invite to a group interview, so I suppose I'm still in the running.

Something I haven't had to think about in a while: What kind of attire would you guys suggest? A normal, civilian suit? Bravo's? Trops? My take on it so far is Bravo's for the 'suit and tie' look, as I'd imagine that's what everyone else will be wearing.

From the sound of it, a group interview is pretty good indicator that you will be accepted as long as you do fine at the interview. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=217183
By "Bravos" I'm assuming you're referring to a military dress uniform? If that is the case, I would not wear that. I'd wear a civilian suit unless you hear otherwise that is more casual. This is just my opinion but if I went to something like that and someone was wearing a military dress uniform I would immediately assume that they are giant douche bag.

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Metanoia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Metanoia » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:22 pm

ArcticDeckie wrote:What kind of attire would you guys suggest? A normal, civilian suit? Bravo's? Trops? My take on it so far is Bravo's for the 'suit and tie' look, as I'd imagine that's what everyone else will be wearing.

Definitely do not wear any kind of military unifom. I would wear a suit and tie.

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bjsesq
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby bjsesq » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:25 pm

Any of you know of any post-educational grants for vets? Recently graduated law school and have a great chance at a fellowship, but dat money is TIGHT.

ArcticDeckie
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ArcticDeckie » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:31 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:
ArcticDeckie wrote:Just wanted to thank all the Active Duty members and vets who have contributed to this thread so far, as this has been a great source of information and support.

Coast Guard E-5 in the DC/Maryland area
GPA: 3.45, Classics degree from U. of Pittsburgh
LSAT: 162

Applying in the DC area. I applied ED to GULC, a reach to be sure, but to my surprise I've already received an invite to a group interview, so I suppose I'm still in the running.

Something I haven't had to think about in a while: What kind of attire would you guys suggest? A normal, civilian suit? Bravo's? Trops? My take on it so far is Bravo's for the 'suit and tie' look, as I'd imagine that's what everyone else will be wearing.

From the sound of it, a group interview is pretty good indicator that you will be accepted as long as you do fine at the interview. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=217183
By "Bravos" I'm assuming you're referring to a military dress uniform? If that is the case, I would not wear that. I'd wear a civilian suit unless you hear otherwise that is more casual. This is just my opinion but if I went to something like that and someone was wearing a military dress uniform I would immediately assume that they are giant douche bag.


Definitely do not wear any kind of military unifom. I would wear a suit and tie.


I appreciate the opinions, thanks. Civilian clothes it is.

Good luck to the other veteran applicants out there this season, I'm eager to see how things go.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:39 pm

Good luck to you as well and congradulations on hearing back fron GULC. Hopefully you get in!




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