Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:56 am

ScottRiqui wrote:
Rotor wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Anyone had any experience with what happens when the GI Bill + a school scholarship = more than your total bill? If that results in a credit to your student account, does the excess just go back to the VA, or does the student see any of that?


Assuming you're talking about the Post-9/11 GI Bill, it's changed, and now it's the "last payer". So, all scholarships and other reductions to tuition/fees are applied to your bill *before* the GI Bill pays out anything. As such, there's no way to have any "left over" to either "go back" to the VA or to the student.

Quick example: $40k/year tuition/fees at a private school, $19k/year GI bill contribution, and a $25k/year scholarship:

$40k bill minus $25k scholarship equals $15k, which is below the GI Bill contribution limit. The GI Bill pays out that $15k, and that's all.

Yes, GI Bill is the "last payer" but that only applies when the scholarship is "for the sole purpose of defraying tuition and fees."
38 USC 3313 (c)(1)(A) wrote:The VA will pay the actual net cost for in-State tuition and fees assessed by the institution for the program of education after the application of—

– any waiver of, or reduction in, tuition and fees; and

– any scholarship, or other Federal, State, institutional, or employer-based aid or assistance (other than loans and any funds provided under section 401(b) of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1070a) [Federal Title IV]) that is provided directly to the institution and specifically designated for the sole purpose of defraying tuition and fees;

Therefore, if you can convince your school (or whatever the source of your scholarship/grant may be) to make the grant available for tuition, fees and living expenses, it should be refundable. I was not in this situation so I do not have first-hand experience how it works, but I've heard of it working for others.


That's true - if you can get the school (or whoever) to give you money that's not earmarked specifically for tuition/fees, then it shouldn't reduce the GI Bill contribution. Unfortunately, I'm like you in that I don't know the mechanics of how to set up such a "drug deal".

I hope that there's such a mechanism in place, though, because at least for public schools, it would make scholarships largely useless for the student; any money that the school gives you specifically toward tuition/fees is just going to reduce the GI Bill contribution, and not give a net benefit to the student.



In UG I got my "surplus" back in a check a few weeks after the VA paid. Through the grape vine I've heard many state schools (including M and V) know how to code it so scholarships are applied to a general fund, not as for tuition.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:19 am

esypsylmnsqsy wrote:Hi all. New to TLS in the last few weeks and wanted to introduce myself on this thread.

6 year Navy E-5
Intel
173 LSAT/3.15 GPA

I heard from several of you when I posted to the "chance me" thread. I will be applying this fall, wrapping with the Navy in the spring. I'm wondering if there is anyone willing to swap and/or look at my PS, resume, possibly academic addendum. I know there are other places to do that on here but I would appreciate hearing from this community. Here's looking forward to a fruitful cycle!


I'm happy to look at it for you, although I'm a 0L as well. PM me if you want a second set of eyes on your stuff.

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Bfalcon
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Bfalcon » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:14 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:
esypsylmnsqsy wrote:Hi all. New to TLS in the last few weeks and wanted to introduce myself on this thread.

6 year Navy E-5
Intel
173 LSAT/3.15 GPA

I heard from several of you when I posted to the "chance me" thread. I will be applying this fall, wrapping with the Navy in the spring. I'm wondering if there is anyone willing to swap and/or look at my PS, resume, possibly academic addendum. I know there are other places to do that on here but I would appreciate hearing from this community. Here's looking forward to a fruitful cycle!


I'm happy to look at it for you, although I'm a 0L as well. PM me if you want a second set of eyes on your stuff.


+1

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:20 pm

I'd like to swap resumes and personal statements with someone. Anyone interested just PM me your email.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:13 am

*EDIT: Now for 2014-15 school year!

Now all the schools on the 2013-14 Law School GI Bill/YR Spreadsheet except for Wisconsin and UNC have been updated. The spreadsheet lives here:

2014-15 GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon

Information on interpretation and some follow-on posts about it can be found on page 25 of this thread. Or just click here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=170257&start=600

Bottom line: More and more schools (especially the T14) are becoming very friendly to vets. Let's hope the trend continues!
Last edited by MT Cicero on Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:03 pm

Awesome list!

Does anyone know why Baylor decided to stop participating in the YRP? They were my fall back school and I was talking to financial aid office the other day through email and asked how many spots they have for YR and she said that starting this year they will no longer participate in YR. When I asked why no one ever responded back.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:27 pm

Since I have the post 9/11 gi bill I don't need a scholarship so I was wondering if anyone knows if you could ask for a scholarship to be converted to a book and/or living allowance?

If anyone has tried this I'd like to hear about it. Other wise what are eveyones thoughts on this?

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:51 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:Since I have the post 9/11 gi bill I don't need a scholarship so I was wondering if anyone knows if you could ask for a scholarship to be converted to a book and/or living allowance?

If anyone has tried this I'd like to hear about it. Other wise what are everyones thoughts on this?


I don't think it works like this anymore. You used to be able to do it from what I understand. Now the government is the last payer so all other aid is calculated first then you get your yellow ribbon money. If you get YRP you should already get a housing allowance.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:50 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:Since I have the post 9/11 gi bill I don't need a scholarship so I was wondering if anyone knows if you could ask for a scholarship to be converted to a book and/or living allowance?

If anyone has tried this I'd like to hear about it. Other wise what are everyones thoughts on this?


I don't think it works like this anymore. You used to be able to do it from what I understand. Now the government is the last payer so all other aid is calculated first then you get your yellow ribbon money. If you get YRP you should already get a housing allowance.

Regardless of getting YRP I should get the housing allowance and the yearly book allowance (unless you know something I don't know) but I was just hoping that I could get some extra money for living experenses. I heard about the last payer thing but I was just thinking that if I got a scholarship offer that I could I contact the school and say thanks for that but I I don't need it so could you just give me less as a monthly living/book allowance? I don't know if the gi bill would still see that and then subtact that from the BAH and book allowance they give me or not.

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:14 pm

Not sure why Baylor stopped participating, but there's legislation that would affect the YRP at public schools: http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th/sen ... l/257/text

Also, make sure you request application fee waivers from all of your schools. I've gotten one at every school that I'm applying to for being active duty military from Berkeley on down with the exception of USC who said, "Yeah, we don't do that."

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Rotor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Rotor » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:52 am

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:Since I have the post 9/11 gi bill I don't need a scholarship so I was wondering if anyone knows if you could ask for a scholarship to be converted to a book and/or living allowance?

If anyone has tried this I'd like to hear about it. Other wise what are everyones thoughts on this?


I don't think it works like this anymore. You used to be able to do it from what I understand. Now the government is the last payer so all other aid is calculated first then you get your yellow ribbon money. If you get YRP you should already get a housing allowance.

The last payer provision only applies to scholarships, etc. that are solely for tuition and fees. If you can get your school to reclassify it for something other than that, you should be able to get that money refunded.

Edit to add: See the more detailed discussion all the way back on page 29.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:07 am

skzen75 wrote:Not sure why Baylor stopped participating, but there's legislation that would affect the YRP at public schools: http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th/sen ... l/257/text

Also, make sure you request application fee waivers from all of your schools. I've gotten one at every school that I'm applying to for being active duty military from Berkeley on down with the exception of USC who said, "Yeah, we don't do that."

I didn't realize that the gi bill didn't cover the full tuition at out of state schools.... that kind of messes my plans up if I were to get into any T14 school since I don't have the numbers for a scholly unless I kill the October LSAT like I'm hoping to.
Rotor wrote:
unc0mm0n1 wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:Since I have the post 9/11 gi bill I don't need a scholarship so I was wondering if anyone knows if you could ask for a scholarship to be converted to a book and/or living allowance?

If anyone has tried this I'd like to hear about it. Other wise what are everyones thoughts on this?


I don't think it works like this anymore. You used to be able to do it from what I understand. Now the government is the last payer so all other aid is calculated first then you get your yellow ribbon money. If you get YRP you should already get a housing allowance.

The last payer provision only applies to scholarships, etc. that are solely for tuition and fees. If you can get your school to reclassify it for something other than that, you should be able to get that money refunded.

Edit to add: See the more detailed discussion all the way back on page 29.

I made it all the way back to page 29. Thanks. Don't know how I missed that.

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Metanoia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Metanoia » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:45 am

TheJanitor6203 wrote:I didn't realize that the gi bill didn't cover the full tuition at out of state schools.... that kind of messes my plans up if I were to get into any T14 school since I don't have the numbers for a scholly unless I kill the October LSAT like I'm hoping to.


A lot of schools will already cover the difference with YRP or just offer vets in-state rates. Craigsan posted a chart and there's more detailed discussion back on page 25.

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:29 pm

The Post 9/11 GI Bill and the YRP can be incredible. The bill caps around $18k at private schools and instate tuition at public ones, but as mentioned previously most t14s find a way to cover the full amount between those two programs. Looking at the spreadsheet, you are looking at a COA around $45k for any school but YLS. Call around and ask the financial aid people how often the YRP program participation has hit cap at their school and you'll find that if you qualify, you get it the vast majority of the time. I don't want to say always, but everyone I talked to said that they'd never hit cap or even come close.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:21 pm

Does anyone know if there is much a "veteran bust" at Georgetown? Currently at 159/3.28. Retaking in October and I should be able to score around a 165 hopefully. I'm applying there ED as well.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Redfactor » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:34 pm

.
Last edited by Redfactor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:02 pm

Redfactor wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:Does anyone know if there is much a "veteran bust" at Georgetown? Currently at 159/3.28. Retaking in October and I should be able to score around a 165 hopefully. I'm applying there ED as well.


I think even a 165 ED is going to be tough for GULC.

I am happy to hear you're retaking. That should be your only focus. Do the best you can on the LSAT and then see what your options are. In all honesty, if you've only used up one test, then I would plan to take in October and December as any disadvantage in doing so has pretty much eroded away over the last 5 years or so. Up your chances of hitting a high note for reach schools.

Also, going to a strong regional (in the market you want to practice) is a solid option for vets as we incur very limited debt. So "low" paying jobs still prove to be very comfortable living.

I have options and with a 165 I'll have a lot more. My top choice is Georgetown because they have a great public defender program which is what I want to do (like you said, we can take the low paying jobs). Even if 165 doesn't get me into GUSL it will probably get me into UT and definately into SMU. Even my 159 gives me 50/50 at SMU. Other than those schools I'd be happy with U of H or Tech too. This is my last LSAT regardless of the score though. I don't have enough time to retake a 3rd time and finish my BA before LS starts.

Redfactor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Redfactor » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:26 pm

.
Last edited by Redfactor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:43 pm

Yeah, 165 at GULC would be a long shot, especially with your GPA. (Mine ain't much better, so that's not a slam.)

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:45 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote: Even if 165 doesn't get me into GUSL it will probably get me into UT and definately into SMU.


I might have missed it in an earlier post, but unless you're a URM, I don't think that a 3.3/165 merits a "probably" at UT. I agree that you'd be in great shape for SMU, though.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:50 pm

I'm not shooting for a 165. I'm shooting for a 180. However I know what I'm capable of and I think a 165 is probably realilistic of what I will score this time. Prior to taking the Feb LSAT I was PTing in the mid 160's then I bombed the actual test for some reason. I'm normally a good test taker. I really don't understand how I got such a low score but such is life. Last time I (sort of) took the Kaplan online prep. This time I'm doing an in-person Blueprint course and I think it's helping a lot but it's too early to say how much at this point. I'm optimistic that I'll score in the high 160's or even a 170 but again, I think a 165 is just more realistic.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:54 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote: Even if 165 doesn't get me into GUSL it will probably get me into UT and definately into SMU.


I might have missed it in an earlier post, but unless you're a URM, I don't think that a 3.3/165 merits a "probably" at UT. I agree that you'd be in great shape for SMU, though.

Last year, UT's median was a 167 and I'd bet money that it will drop at least one point this year, if not 2. So while my GPA is below their 25% I think I'll have a pretty good shot at UT with a 165.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:04 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote: Even if 165 doesn't get me into GUSL it will probably get me into UT and definately into SMU.


I might have missed it in an earlier post, but unless you're a URM, I don't think that a 3.3/165 merits a "probably" at UT. I agree that you'd be in great shape for SMU, though.

Last year, UT's median was a 167 and I'd bet money that it will drop at least one point this year, if not 2. So while my GPA is below their 25% I think I'll have a pretty good shot at UT with a 165.


I sincerely hope you're right, but being (hopefully) at their LSAT median, and below their 25% GPA isn't a very strong position, judging from LSP and LSN. Also, UT is a notorious GPA whore. I'm retaking a 167 with the hopes of possibly, maybe squeaking into UT with a STEM master's degree and a 20-year military career. But, my GPA is lower than yours, so I need all the help I can get.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:16 pm

I didn't know they're GPA whores.... We'll see how it goes on the Oct LSAT. Good luck to you.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:21 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:I didn't know they're GPA whores.... We'll see how it goes on the Oct LSAT. Good luck to you.


You too - I'd love for us to absolutely rock the October LSAT. That way, if UT doesn't take us, it won't be because of anything we could have done differently/better at this point.




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